New Nokturnal Mortum

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The Rider Of Rohan
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#51 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 14 Feb 2010 13:41

I read on the news that a lot of people were wounded and arrested during a neo-nazi-convention in Dresden yesterday. Let's hope Slaya is safe so he can continue to work on his post.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#52 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 15 Feb 2010 18:35

Oh well, another thought.

Appearantly, from what Slaya tells us, you can read the Edda and you are allowed to use a swastika in public. That's an interesting thought. Now let us think about that for a second. Does that mean that..

...Reading The Illiad allows you to besiege Turkish people?
...Reading Charlemagne and Elbegast justifies thieving in disguise?
...Reading the Qu'ran entitles you to stone women?
...Reading about King Arthur means you can wield a sword at Christmas?
...Reading Beowolf means it's okay to slay a dragon?

And if it does, Slaya, can I also substitute watching the film for reading the book? That would just be so much more easy for me.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#53 Post by Lord Borbak » 16 Feb 2010 00:37

...Reading the Qu'ran entitles you to stone women?
Well, in some countries, yes.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#54 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 16 Feb 2010 19:51

So that means there's a similarity in mindset between Slaya and the people who blew up the Twin Towers?
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#55 Post by t.a.j. » 16 Feb 2010 22:38

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Oh well, another thought.

Appearantly, from what Slaya tells us, you can read the Edda and you are allowed to use a swastika in public. That's an interesting thought. Now let us think about that for a second. Does that mean that..

...Reading The Illiad allows you to besiege Turkish people?
I think that calling they Troyans from Homer Turkish is simply false. "Turks" were first named in the 6th century and the people named thus were central asian nomads, not settled city dwellers from 2000 years earlier.
...Reading about King Arthur means you can wield a sword at Christmas?
I fail to see the problem in wielding a sword at christmas.
...Reading Beowolf means it's okay to slay a dragon?
If you managed to find one, sure. ;)

I think you are just willfully misrepresenting Slayas comments. He did seem to suggest that racism was suggested by the edda, not that it tells you to wear swastikas.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#56 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 16 Feb 2010 22:52


I think that calling they Troyans from Homer Turkish is simply false. "Turks" were first named in the 6th century and the people named thus were central asian nomads, not settled city dwellers from 2000 years earlier.
Gratefully, I stand corrected. I was using a simplification of history to make a point, but your account of the story is closer than mine was.
I fail to see the problem in wielding a sword at christmas.
Neither do I. Just imagine how awesome I'd look.
I think you are just willfully misrepresenting Slayas comments. He did seem to suggest that racism was suggested by the edda, not that it tells you to wear swastikas.
You might be right. Then again, there isn't anything to misrepresent until he finishes his posts, so I patiently await his writings.

But let's assume that you are right, and let's even assume as a fact that the Edda contains writings which are racist (this statement is obviously debatable, but it's for the sake of argument). What exactly does this confirm? That someone in 1200-something in Iceland held views which are debatable by today's standards? Or, when we view Snorre as merely an observer of ancient folklore, that the norsemen themselves were against other races? That last bit kindof goes without saying, as we all know that they raped and plundered all their way across Europe. Still doesn't tell us anything, really.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#57 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 24 Feb 2010 20:39

I just sent Slaya a pm telling him that I look forward to his post. It must be quite incredible by now.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#58 Post by Slaya » 25 Feb 2010 21:20

The Edda is not fiction. Neither is the Qu'ran. Both represent culture and moral values which might differ from yours - I doubt you have the right to judge upon thousands of years of cultural expression just because you disagree.
Where the lazure skies tear the hearts apart
And as leaden ice they remain deep inside your eyes
Where the morning burns starlight ashes to dust
All my songs I´ve thrown to the seven winds

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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#59 Post by Slaya » 25 Feb 2010 21:39

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:No, I don't think it is safe to say Slaya is pawned. He would admit that he's pawned if he never replied to this topic, but in his defence, he did say he needed some time to formulate his thoughts. And I can imagine that it takes some time to justify the modern-day use of the swastika in its original intended use by explaining the similarities in perception between nazi's and pagans through an Icelandic book about Norse mythology. So let's grant him some time and allow him to come up with something nice.
You are making a connection here where I did not intend to make one - You wanted me to explain similarities between Paganism and National Socialism for some reason.
That is in no relation to the question whether it is "acceptable" to use the swastika as it was originally intended or not. As for the latter issue, I ask you: Doesn't it depend on the context? I mean come on, I have a drinking horn (yes I know it is clichéd, but I can't remember anything else I have used the symbol on at the moment) with "sunwheels" carved on it along with related symbols - it certainly does NOT have the same meaning as a Nazi battle flag... :roll:
Where the lazure skies tear the hearts apart
And as leaden ice they remain deep inside your eyes
Where the morning burns starlight ashes to dust
All my songs I´ve thrown to the seven winds

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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#60 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 25 Feb 2010 22:25

Okay, so you state what you didn't mean. That's acceptable. So what did you mean?
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#61 Post by Slaya » 25 Feb 2010 23:14

Please elaborate. Because the topic we were arguing about for the last 20 or so posts actually came to be simply becasue you took apart everything I said and nailed me to a discussion about tiny details or aspects of what I originally wanted to say.
Where the lazure skies tear the hearts apart
And as leaden ice they remain deep inside your eyes
Where the morning burns starlight ashes to dust
All my songs I´ve thrown to the seven winds

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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#62 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 25 Feb 2010 23:38

That's only fair.

You argued that it is not possible to prevent mistaking pagans for nazi's because of their similarity in mindset, and you were about to cite the Edda as a reference.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#63 Post by Joost » 25 Feb 2010 23:55

It seems to trace back to here:
Slaya wrote:NS adopted many ancient pagan values and mindsets into its own concept and context.
This is why some people find it so hard to seperate it from each other again.
t.a.j. wrote: Using a swastika is a similarity in mindset?

No, really, give me a list.
Slaya wrote:I will, please tell me first if you have read the Snorri Edda so I can see if to use it as reference or not.
t.a.j. wrote: Some of it. But explanations would probably be better.
Perhaps it's best to proceed from here.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#64 Post by Lord Borbak » 18 Mar 2010 02:54

*still waiting*
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#65 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 26 Apr 2010 18:55

*bump*
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Re: New Nokturnal Mortum

#66 Post by t.a.j. » 26 Apr 2010 19:37

Ok, I will speak a conditional:
If you're religion is racist, you're religion is false.
http://www.gedichtblog.de
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway.
They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret...


Still the goddamn Batman.

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