Avantasia vs Ayreon

Discuss all things about music other than Blind Guardian here.

Which one did you like the most?

Avantasia
24
30%
Ayreon
55
70%
 
Total votes: 79

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Dreamflight
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Avantasia vs Ayreon

#1 Post by Dreamflight » 21 Mar 2008 02:32

So I decided to creat this topic to let you know that:
Ayreon vs. Avantasia - new EP!



Press Release: AYREON VS. AVANTASIA!
Ayreon releases EP featuring 3 non-album tracks.

On January 25, 2008 the rock operas of Arjen Lucassen and Tobias Sammet, respectively Ayreon's 01011001 and Avantasia's The Scarecrow, were released simultaneously. The music press, always eager for a story, called this event the 'Clash of the Titans', gleefully portraying the two musicians as bitter rivals and urging each to comment on the other in countless interviews. There was much speculation about which album would be more successful, but upon release both albums immediately charted in several countries around the world. When asked about the so-called rivalry, Arjen explains: "I'd not yet even heard Tobias's album, but when I found out he'd managed to get my all-time favourite artist Alice Cooper to guest on The Scarecrow, I totally freaked out and sent a hate-mail to Tobias's MySpace. Fortunately, he never received it".

Coincidentally however, Tobias, who was fed up with having to talk about Arjen in interviews, grudgingly decided it was time to get acquainted. He emailed Arjen, and in the stream of email and insults that followed "it turned out that Tobias hated me just as much for having got Bruce Dickinson to guest on an Ayreon album, haha!" Arjen explains. Despite their mutual hatred, the two musicians eventually hatched a plan to put some fuel on the fire created by the press by doing the unthinkable: recording a song together. The result is a mind-blowing over-the-top cover version of Elected, the original version of which was a big hit for Alice Cooper back in 1973.

The song Elected will be featured on a 4-track EP released by Inside Out Music/SPV (release dates: 25 April for Germany/Austria/Switzerland; 28 April for Europe). The 3 other tracks featured on the EP are an acoustic live radio session of the 01011001 track E=mc2 with Marjan Welman on vocals, Ride the Comet taken from the album 01011001, and a touching piano-only version of the Human Equation track Day Six: Childhood featuring Joost van den Broek and Marjan Welman.
From: http://www.arjenlucassen.com/aal/aa_news.html

But also to ask which one did you preffer, and why?
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#2 Post by power_dysfunction » 21 Mar 2008 06:06

God, Avantasia isn't even in a league with Ayreon.
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#3 Post by Havenless » 21 Mar 2008 06:27

Ayreon by far

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#4 Post by Nodoordonotthereisnotry » 21 Mar 2008 10:30

Ayreon.
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#5 Post by Orodaran » 21 Mar 2008 11:12

First I want to answer to the poll "Apples vs Oranges" :wink:
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#6 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 21 Mar 2008 11:27

i love the hatemail part
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#7 Post by Joost » 21 Mar 2008 13:30

Orodaran wrote:First I want to answer to the poll "Apples vs Oranges" :wink:
more like apples vs. sour grapes
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
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#8 Post by V0lcaN0 » 21 Mar 2008 16:55

Avantasia.

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#9 Post by Tanelorn » 21 Mar 2008 18:32

Ayreon all the way... not even close..
Not now...

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#10 Post by Verruckter » 21 Mar 2008 18:33

Ayreon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Avantasia

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#11 Post by Guilherme » 21 Mar 2008 18:38

Both suck.

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#12 Post by Dreamflight » 21 Mar 2008 23:03

If I were to symbolise with one word each I would say:

Avantasia: Heart

Ayreon: Brains
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#13 Post by t.a.j. » 22 Mar 2008 01:09

Dreamflight wrote:If I were to symbolise with one word each I would say:

Avantasia: Heart

Ayreon: Brains
Where I to do that I would say:

Avantasia: Kitsch

Ayreon: Art

but kitsch can be nice too.
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#14 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 22 Mar 2008 01:21

i prefer art.. but i disagree bout ayreon not being heart...
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#15 Post by Dreamflight » 22 Mar 2008 03:37

:t.a:j: wrote:
Dreamflight wrote:If I were to symbolise with one word each I would say:

Avantasia: Heart

Ayreon: Brains
Where I to do that I would say:

Avantasia: Kitsch

Ayreon: Art

but kitsch can be nice too.
That was really mean, but the hell, at least you were mean with a certain style :mrgreen:

@Gandi: I think Ayreon songs are "touching", but the overall feeling after listening an album of Arjen imo is the great musicianship complexity and the great story, on the other hand Tobi songs have more to do with emotions than the other stuff, much because the way of Tobi to sing. Of course I consider Ayreon more music from the heart than for example Symphony X, but the ideia was to comapre Ayreon and Avantasia. :wink:
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#16 Post by Mifnar_Daegor » 22 Mar 2008 10:32

Actually they are far too different to compare them but while Ayreon is a real thing Avantasia's just a "bleh", at least for me :twisted:
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#17 Post by corrupted old gnom » 22 Mar 2008 11:56

i almost ended up buying ayreon's newest release - but i just couldn't find a reason to do so; most songs bored me to death; i must admit that the album could grow with time...but yet even the not really matching vocal styles bodered me
well, for me it's definitely avantasia...as you might have guessed ;)
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#18 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 22 Mar 2008 11:58

well.. i consider the biggest flaw of avantasia that the vocals almost all sound a like (haven't heard the new one.. i admit) and that because of that, any emotion turns into.. nothingness... it is just good music, but no strong emotions for me...
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#19 Post by Guilherme » 22 Mar 2008 16:27

Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone. Plus the sterile production and cheesy guitars, choir vocals. It's the definition of kitsch.

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#20 Post by Joost » 22 Mar 2008 16:59

Guilherme wrote:Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone.
Fooled anyone into what?
Plus the sterile production and cheesy guitars, choir vocals.
There aren't that many choir vocals on Ayreon, are there? It's mostly solo vocal stuff. And at least there haven't been any cheesy standard power metallish choirs since The Final Experiment (where songs like Merlin's Will had those) in 1995.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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#21 Post by power_dysfunction » 22 Mar 2008 17:13

Guilherme wrote:Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone.
What exactly are they supposed to fool anyone about? Thinking they're guitars? Most of the synths used are classic analog sounds, which I personally greatly prefer to the oh-so-generic sawtooth lead used by just about every metal keyboardist.
Plus the sterile production
Huh?
and cheesy guitars,
What's cheesy about them?
choir vocals. It's the definition of kitsch.
Choir vocals = kitsch? Yet here you are on a Blind Guardian forum.
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#22 Post by Dreamflight » 22 Mar 2008 17:41

Guilherme wrote:Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone. Plus the sterile production and cheesy guitars, choir vocals. It's the definition of kitsch.
Gui is that really you? :?

Arjen states on every damn interview how he loves the "old names" and how much he is influenced by them, he's not cheating anyone. He even states that he ripped off Zepplin's Kashmir on THE's Voices and Floyd's On the Run on THE's Isolation.

About the rest is a matter of taste, I guess but about the choirs....well thanks to ZeroOne (ok, and Angra's Temple of Shadows as well) I can say how great Hansi vocals are without all those layers that BG has using and abusing since NIME.
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#23 Post by Dreamflight » 22 Mar 2008 17:44

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:well.. i consider the biggest flaw of avantasia that the vocals almost all sound a like (haven't heard the new one.. i admit) and that because of that, any emotion turns into.. nothingness... it is just good music, but no strong emotions for me...
I really suggest you to listen the latest one. The only vocals that are alike are Tobi and Kiske, the rest you have very different ones: Jorn, Bob Catley, Alice Cooper and Roy Kahn whose voice I believe you're fond of, right?
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#24 Post by corrupted old gnom » 22 Mar 2008 18:33

steven mentioned that he didn't listen to the scarecrow
i guess, he'd reconsider once he did

maybe i have to buy the ayreon release anyway...i wanna know if i can discover what's so great about it
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#25 Post by Joost » 22 Mar 2008 20:14

power_dysfunction wrote:
Guilherme wrote:Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone.
What exactly are they supposed to fool anyone about? Thinking they're guitars? Most of the synths used are classic analog sounds, which I personally greatly prefer to the oh-so-generic sawtooth lead used by just about every metal keyboardist.
Maybe he meant fooling people into thinking the keyboards are actual analog ones, even though they're (I think) mostly digital ones producing 'analog-sounding' sounds.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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#26 Post by Redd » 23 Mar 2008 01:04

Avantasia.

Ayreon couldn't keep my interest for even three songs.

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#27 Post by power_dysfunction » 23 Mar 2008 03:47

Joost wrote:
power_dysfunction wrote:
Guilherme wrote:Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone.
What exactly are they supposed to fool anyone about? Thinking they're guitars? Most of the synths used are classic analog sounds, which I personally greatly prefer to the oh-so-generic sawtooth lead used by just about every metal keyboardist.
Maybe he meant fooling people into thinking the keyboards are actual analog ones, even though they're (I think) mostly digital ones producing 'analog-sounding' sounds.
On Arjen's gear page he lists all the analog synths he owns:
Hammond A100 & Leslie 122
Solina String ensemble
Mini Moog
Prophet 5
Oberheim OB 8
MKS 80 Roland Superjupiter
Juno 60
Arp Pro Soloist
Korg MS 20
There are even more of the great analog synths listed in the instrumentalist credits in the album booklets, such as Mellotron (along with Hammond A100/B3, my favorite).

So, without intending to offend anyone, my impression is neither of you know much about synths.
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#28 Post by Livare » 23 Mar 2008 06:57

Ayreon. So yeah, even if I'm not that much into his latest album, I'm a huge fan of his older stuff.

Avantasia sounds to me like Edguy with a lot of singers, actually. And no, I haven't listened to The Scarecrow and it's not really on my plans to do so :D

(Now don't get me wrong, I actually like a few songs of the first Metal Opera)

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#29 Post by Orodaran » 23 Mar 2008 10:40

Livare wrote:Avantasia sounds to me like Edguy with a lot of singers, actually. And no, I haven't listened to The Scarecrow and it's not really on my plans to do so :D
Funny that you say that... because the definition "Edguy with a lot of singers" applies MUCH more to The Scarecrow than the Metal Opera albums :wink:
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A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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#30 Post by Guilherme » 23 Mar 2008 16:43

Joost wrote:
Guilherme wrote:Ayreon is really kitsch too. Those keyb sounds never fooled anyone.
Fooled anyone into what?

Into this:

Arjen states on every damn interview how he loves the "old names" and how much he is influenced by them, he's not cheating anyone. He even states that he ripped off Zepplin's Kashmir on THE's Voices and Floyd's On the Run on THE's Isolation.
while using all those great keyboards to sound like Europe or something. Arjen usually sounds very 80's, in a bad way. About the choir vocals, I might be exxagerating, but I'll try to point them out when I have my Ayreon albums in my hands again. About the guitars... it's probably a matter of taste, but those "Jugg Jugg" guitars never sank well into my ears. The production is something I can't really explain, it's more like the overall feeling of listening to music that's not really breathing, but is stale and confined, another taste thing of course.

About me, being in the BG forum, I said choirs are Kitsch, I never said I disliked them, or Ayreon for all that matters.

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#31 Post by power_dysfunction » 23 Mar 2008 19:46

Maybe you're talking about the lack of dynamics due to the compression on the master track (google 'The loudness war'), but then that's something pretty much every professionally-produced band does these days, and some are much worse than Ayreon (Dream Theater, I'm looking at you).
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#32 Post by Ornendil » 23 Mar 2008 19:56

Guilherme wrote:The production is something I can't really explain, it's more like the overall feeling of listening to music that's not really breathing, but is stale and confined, another taste thing of course.
Probably a result of the producer using way too much audio level compression. That's a very normal problem these days. Because of the "loudness race" forcing the normal sound intensity to the limit, producers have to use more and more compression to keep the sounds inside the limits. This will, of course, make the music sound more confined and sterile because the're barely any dynamic left. No room to breathe. That's one of the reasons why old recordings have a tendency to sound so much more soulful than modern recordings.

edit: Beaten to it..
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#33 Post by Verruckter » 23 Mar 2008 20:03

power_dysfunction wrote:Maybe you're talking about the lack of dynamics due to the compression on the master track (google 'The loudness war'), but then that's something pretty much every professionally-produced band does these days, and some are much worse than Ayreon (Dream Theater, I'm looking at you).
Agree. Overproduction kills Dream Theater's music so much.

When you're recording an album, can you request for the mastering to be done differently? I mean, sure not ALL the labels are participating in that "loudness war', right?

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#34 Post by power_dysfunction » 23 Mar 2008 20:23

Artists can certainly make requests and have influence on what the engineer does, but I gather that major labels pretty much demand a certain apparent loudness. We perceive louder stuff as sounding better, at least at first listen, but there's a strict upper limit of zero decibels (full scale). Going above that results in nasty-sounding clipping. So if you can't increase the loudest stuff in a track above zero, the only way to make it louder is to increase the quieter stuff. If the quieter stuff gets louder but the louder stuff stays the same volume, you lose dynamics.

Ayreon's production is otherwise quite creative and excellent, btw.
Though the towers of the city are denied to we men of clay
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Frightened in the silence -
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#35 Post by Sarah » 23 Mar 2008 20:58

I never really got into Avantasia, so that's one more for Ayreon.
It's quite recent though, i'm always a bit scared of those superproduction like albums, with 3 dozen singers all screaming their guts out to make sure they'll be heard on the final product. 01 is actually the first "real" Ayreon cd i've listened with attention and took the time to get into it. The tracks on it are truly inequal (wtf is that song with Simone and PX doing there ?), but it's growing on me, mostly the Forever songs... There's always this problem of putting so many people together and mixing it too far, having them lose their initial flavour and identity. But on a few tracks, it's really well done, and the voices are good enough and just fitting together.

I'll probably check the other Ayreon cds sometime now, but i first got into 01 for Hansi, and the other main singers on the previous albums are not forcibly my favs. The Star One album was quite good too, but just the same, i loved it because two of my very-favourite-singers-in-the-world were on it (Swanö/Allen)
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#36 Post by Guilherme » 23 Mar 2008 21:26

power_dysfunction wrote:Maybe you're talking about the lack of dynamics due to the compression on the master track (google 'The loudness war'), but then that's something pretty much every professionally-produced band does these days, and some are much worse than Ayreon (Dream Theater, I'm looking at you).
That's exactly it. And I agree other bands are even worst.

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#37 Post by Tono Fyr » 24 Mar 2008 07:45

There are different singers on Avantasia's first album?


Ahem, in all seriousness, though, most of the singers on the first Avantasia are hard to differentiate. It's a wall of Bruce Dickinson sound-alikes. Even the two women on the album sound like Bruce Dickinson.

While I do enjoy it just on a sort of fun factor, it didn't interest me at all, really in terms of going out after the rest of it.

Ayreon, on the other hand, has a number of very excellent and distinct vocalists with a much wider range of musical influences, as well as out-of-this world musicianship. I would hardly call it kitsch at all. I can't imagine Avantasia being more INTERESTING than Ayreon by anyone's definition, but whatever.
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#38 Post by Orodaran » 24 Mar 2008 13:01

David DeFeis sounds only like himself, and certainly not like Bruce 8) if at all, an uneducated ear may mistake him for Eric Adams at first :P
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~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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#39 Post by ThePKH » 24 Mar 2008 13:25

Tono Fyr wrote:Ahem, in all seriousness, though, most of the singers on the first Avantasia are hard to differentiate. It's a wall of Bruce Dickinson sound-alikes. Even the two women on the album sound like Bruce Dickinson.
Hands up everyone who doesn't know how Bruce Dickinson sounds like. Oh, Tono Fyr, don't be so shy.
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#40 Post by Dreamflight » 25 Mar 2008 02:28

Orodaran wrote:David DeFeis sounds only like himself, and certainly not like Bruce 8) if at all, an uneducated ear may mistake him for Eric Adams at first :P
at first, at second, at third..
Even the two women on the album sound like Bruce Dickinson.
Two???? In the first two albums there's only Sharon den Adel, in the last one there's only Amanda. Unless you're making a bad joke with Andre Matos.
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#41 Post by Tono Fyr » 25 Mar 2008 07:46

ThePKH wrote:
Tono Fyr wrote:Ahem, in all seriousness, though, most of the singers on the first Avantasia are hard to differentiate. It's a wall of Bruce Dickinson sound-alikes. Even the two women on the album sound like Bruce Dickinson.
Hands up everyone who doesn't know how Bruce Dickinson sounds like. Oh, Tono Fyr, don't be so shy.
Three Dickinson fronted Maiden albums and two of his solo albums, I'd like to think I'm pretty familiar with his voice. All the voices on the first album sound like pretty much the same voice, and they all seem to sound like Dickinson in one way or another to me.

As far as the number of females on the album (one), I could've sworn I heard two, but whatever. My point stands that all of the vocalists are too same sounding (and they all approach "Bruce Dickinson" as their collective limit goes off to infinity). The first time I listened to it, I couldn't distinguish more than two or three separate voices. And I still can't distinguish more than four.
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#42 Post by Orodaran » 25 Mar 2008 11:13

Dreamflight wrote:
Orodaran wrote:David DeFeis sounds only like himself, and certainly not like Bruce 8) if at all, an uneducated ear may mistake him for Eric Adams at first :P
at first, at second, at third..
Well, then listen to him a fourth time - David DeFeis has a lot of depth and versatility, and while on the album Invictus he may indeed be mistaken for Eric, once you get to know him and hear stuff like Emalaith, Angel of Death, God Above God, Child of Desolation or When the Legends Die you can really hear his tremendous skills...
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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#43 Post by t.a.j. » 25 Mar 2008 11:37

Actually, I think that David Defeis does not sound all that much like Eric Adams. It just seems so at first listen ;), because Virign Steele tend to sound a lot like Manowar (also at first listen mostly, though there is some strong similarity espc. on Invictus)
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Orodaran
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#44 Post by Orodaran » 25 Mar 2008 11:41

Yeah, that's my point: you don't know VS, you hear Invictus, and you think to find yourself in front of a Manowar / Eric Adams copy. It's when you really get to know what Virgin Steele is all about that you notice the very wide difference between their sound and Manowar's, and between David's voice and Eric's.
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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#45 Post by Epic IM » 25 Mar 2008 19:29

Interesting EP, but I think it would've been more interesting if Sammet and Lucassen had written the song together and not just made a cover version of old song. Anyway, It'd be more than delighted to hear Sammet's vocals on future Ayreon albums.
Livare wrote:Avantasia sounds to me like Edguy with a lot of singers, actually.
Is that supposed to be a bad thing? I guess you're not into Edguy then? :wink:
Tono Fyr wrote: As far as the number of females on the album (one), I could've sworn I heard two, but whatever. My point stands that all of the vocalists are too same sounding (and they all approach "Bruce Dickinson" as their collective limit goes off to infinity). The first time I listened to it, I couldn't distinguish more than two or three separate voices. And I still can't distinguish more than four.
Maybe you're not familiar enough with singers on the first Avantasia album? Kiske, DeFeis, Hansen, Matos, Sammet, Den Adel and Rob Rock all have their very characteristic voices. I can't comment very much about Hartmann and Ralf (don't remember his surname) because I haven't heard their other contributions besides Avantasia.

At present I think that Sammet has been more succesful with Avantasia than Lucassen with Ayreon. I love the last two Ayreon albums but Lucassen has done some rather uninteresting albums in the past. For example album The Universal Migrator part 1: The overall atmosphere at the beginning of the album is excellent but it only lasts for a couple of songs. Brilliant And the Druids Turned to Stone can't save the whole album from falling into the bottomless pit of boredom.
:t.a:j: wrote:Actually, I think that David Defeis does not sound all that much like Eric Adams. It just seems so at first listen , because Virgin Steele tend to sound a lot like Manowar (also at first listen mostly, though there is some strong similarity espc. on Invictus)
It's funny that every time I play Virgin Steele to someone, they almost always come up with the Manowar comparison. Maybe they sound like Manowar but I just can't hear it that well. The overall sound has some similarities indeed but once you look past the first impressions into the complexity of Virgin Steele's song writing, you realize they're nothing like Manowar.
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Joost
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#46 Post by Joost » 25 Mar 2008 19:32

Epic IM wrote:It's funny that every time I play Virgin Steele to someone, they almost always come up with the Manowar comparison. Maybe they sound like Manowar but I just can't hear it that well. The overall sound has some similarities indeed but once you look past the first impressions into the complexity of Virgin Steele's song writing, you realize they're nothing like Manowar.
A lot of Manowar songs don't exactly have simplistic songwriting either, mind you. And some VS songs are quite simple, too.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

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Orodaran
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#47 Post by Orodaran » 25 Mar 2008 20:03

But VS still make complex songs, while Manowar stopped doing that with Triumph of Steel :P
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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BG news (if you're lazy to check the site) :: You're on Facebook? Look at my photos from concerts, travels and more :: Oh, and since you're at it, check my photos also on 500px

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#48 Post by Tono Fyr » 26 Mar 2008 02:07

Epic IM wrote:Interesting EP, but I think it would've been more interesting if Sammet and Lucassen had written the song together and not just made a cover version of old song. Anyway, It'd be more than delighted to hear Sammet's vocals on future Ayreon albums.
Livare wrote:Avantasia sounds to me like Edguy with a lot of singers, actually.
Is that supposed to be a bad thing? I guess you're not into Edguy then? :wink:
Tono Fyr wrote: As far as the number of females on the album (one), I could've sworn I heard two, but whatever. My point stands that all of the vocalists are too same sounding (and they all approach "Bruce Dickinson" as their collective limit goes off to infinity). The first time I listened to it, I couldn't distinguish more than two or three separate voices. And I still can't distinguish more than four.
Maybe you're not familiar enough with singers on the first Avantasia album? Kiske, DeFeis, Hansen, Matos, Sammet, Den Adel and Rob Rock all have their very characteristic voices. I can't comment very much about Hartmann and Ralf (don't remember his surname) because I haven't heard their other contributions besides Avantasia.

At present I think that Sammet has been more succesful with Avantasia than Lucassen with Ayreon. I love the last two Ayreon albums but Lucassen has done some rather uninteresting albums in the past. For example album The Universal Migrator part 1: The overall atmosphere at the beginning of the album is excellent but it only lasts for a couple of songs. Brilliant And the Druids Turned to Stone can't save the whole album from falling into the bottomless pit of boredom.
Edguy's fun and all, but judging JUST from the first Avantasia album and a few songs I've heard, they SEEM like a standard power metal band (it should be noted that I'm open to the idea that they're not, but just from my personal sampling, they are).

While Migrator part One is my least favorite Ayreon album by a long shot, I still like it better (in general) than Avantasia, though they're really hard to compare side by side. Then again, I haven't listened to Avantasia THAT much, I've listened to it all the way through only four or five times, maybe. And I have to disagree about the second half of the album, I think it's actually pretty strong, personally. The first four song s really drag on for me.

Different strokes, I guess.
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#49 Post by Dwarfare » 26 Mar 2008 04:53

I voted Ayreon. I really like the songs, I'm more familiar with most of the vocalists Arjen uses, too, and I like the kind of music he makes, especially the last two albums, The Human Equation and the one in binary that I can never remember the order to. They have a lot of variety, and though I don't personally care a lot for synthesizers, I think they sound really good and the melodies are well thought out. They could be better, yes, as anything could, but if you're really so sure what could make it better, you should make you're own band and show them how it's done properly.

As for Avantasia, I liked it, but I didn't quite love it. For the Metal Opera albums, as has been said, Most of the singers are very had to distinguish from Sammet. Maybe Tobias loves his own voice, but he needed more characters, so he just got a bunch of people who he though sounded great (AKA ones that sounded like him :P ). Just joking, for the most part, as I don't think he's that conceited, but they really do sound alike for the first few albums. I was amazed at the number of vocalists on the album and the actual number I could differentiate in the songs themselves. I liked the songs themselves, they had a great feel to them, the singers sang with a lot of heart, and it was an overall great pair of albums.

As for his latest album, The Scarecrow, it's a lot more varied in singers, but it didn't fit my tastes too well. A lot of the songs seemed more like light rock than metal, and though it had it's good moments, I just couldn't get over the feeling that it wasn't quite metal enough. It's probably just me, but that's part of what tipped my vote over to Ayreon.

Both great bands deserving of respect, still.

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#50 Post by Dreamflight » 27 Mar 2008 03:12

Orodaran wrote:
Dreamflight wrote:
Orodaran wrote:David DeFeis sounds only like himself, and certainly not like Bruce 8) if at all, an uneducated ear may mistake him for Eric Adams at first :P
at first, at second, at third..
Well, then listen to him a fourth time - David DeFeis has a lot of depth and versatility, and while on the album Invictus he may indeed be mistaken for Eric, once you get to know him and hear stuff like Emalaith, Angel of Death, God Above God, Child of Desolation or When the Legends Die you can really hear his tremendous skills...
Ok, I was overdoing with the comparison. But I have to say the only record I know of VS "The House of.." bored me as much as Manowar.
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