Proposing a restructuring of the forum

Write here all your comments, suggestions, insults, whatever, about the Blind Guardian Official Homepage and the forum.

Should we rearrange the sections of the forum?

Yes, we could do with fewer sections
18
75%
No, I like it fine as it is
6
25%
 
Total votes: 24

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The Rider Of Rohan
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Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#1 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 30 May 2010 13:23

I am risking a huge debate here, so forgive me if I go out on a limb. :P

Browsing through the sub-sections of the forum I have noticed how some sections have topics that stay on top for hours, days and - in some cases - weeks - without anyone replying to them. Anyone who was around this place in 2002/2003 knows this was unthinkable back then. In those days, people were basically spamming every thread possible.

There are numerous explanations for this. One is the fact that BG doesn't have a new album out yet (we know from experience that such a thing creates a short peak in the pageviews and replies), another one is that there are a lot of other social sites (Facebook, Myspace) for the BG-community to get in touch with each other. There may be other explanations, but it all amounts to the same thing: that the post-per-section-ration has declined significantly over the last eight years.

So how about shaking things up a little and combining things? This has 2 advantages:

1: A higher post-per-section-ratio makes the forum more inviting to visit, thus increasing dynamics
2: By combining sections we would see an increase of replies from little-visited sections of the forum, which could lead to new discussions outside of the typical ones.

I invite you all to give your opinion on this. In my next post I will make a specific proposition as to which sections to merge. For your consideration, as they say.
Last edited by The Rider Of Rohan on 30 May 2010 19:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#2 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 30 May 2010 13:42

Here's my proposal. Please debate. :)

Merging Blind Guardian and Tours: both could be merged into a single Blind Guardian-section. This makes sense as both are expressions of the same thing, namely the band's brilliant music. There are already topics that fit into both category (bootlegs for example) and topics that cross over (news of BG's recent tour were published in the BG-section.

Dropping Demons And Wizards: although D&W is obviously brilliant they have only released two albums in ten years time, been on tour once, and have little perspective in the near future. Existing posts could be moved to either the Blind Guardian-section or the music-section (more on this in the next line).

Merging Metal and Other Styles to a Music-section: The metalsection is still a popular place, but the same thing cannot be said about Other Styles. I wholeheartedly applaud topics about music out of the metalgenre, but these things are scarce. When I look at the Other Styles-section, I see a lot of topic about hardrock, poprock, folkrock, sympho-rock et cetera. These styles are tied in so closely to the metal-genre, that they might as well be combined.

Dropping Musicians, The Site and Fantasy: These are all related to pasttimes that we hold close to our hearts, which generally fit in rather nicely in the coffeeshop. Think of it. When you post about any genre of book beside a fantasy-one, you would post it in the coffeeshop anyways. Why not throw fantasy in there too?

Keeping the Coffeeshop and Slaughterhouse separated - Because we fought way to hard for this one. :)

Concluding, I would end up with the following proposal, which I believe would make this a dynamic place again, one that's enjoyable for posting, reading and spamming.

- Blind Guardian
- Music
- Coffeeshop
- Slaughterhouse
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#3 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 30 May 2010 13:58

Some comments on my side:
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Merging Blind Guardian and Tours: both could be merged into a single Blind Guardian-section. This makes sense as both are expressions of the same thing, namely the band's brilliant music. There are already topics that fit into both category (bootlegs for example) and topics that cross over (news of BG's recent tour were published in the BG-section.
Wholeheartedly agree there, though it would be extremely annoying to have everybody post their "please come to my backyard" topic in between all other BG stuff, despite the fact that there is a sticky topic about it already.
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Dropping Demons And Wizards: although D&W is obviously brilliant they have only released two albums in ten years time, been on tour once, and have little perspective in the near future. Existing posts could be moved to either the Blind Guardian-section or the music-section (more on this in the next line).
I'd say merge this with BG, but then again, it'd be fair if Thomen's projects would come there as well. they go into metal at this point.
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Merging Metal and Other Styles to a Music-section: The metalsection is still a popular place, but the same thing cannot be said about Other Styles. I wholeheartedly applaud topics about music out of the metalgenre, but these things are scarce. When I look at the Other Styles-section, I see a lot of topic about hardrock, poprock, folkrock, sympho-rock et cetera. These styles are tied in so closely to the metal-genre, that they might as well be combined.
I believe this was considered a few years ago, but back then the Metal section was rather steaming with action, which is why the Other Styles section was left intact, as to not have other music being drowned by teh metal noise. With current activity, it is possible though.
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Dropping Musicians, The Site and Fantasy: These are all related to pasttimes that we hold close to our hearts, which generally fit in rather nicely in the coffeeshop. Think of it. When you post about any genre of book beside a fantasy-one, you would post it in the coffeeshop anyways. Why not throw fantasy in there too?
Here I have to disagree. Almost all books go into the fantasy section, hardly any ends up here in the coffeeshop. The musicians section is very specific, and it would not help the musicians who post their questions there to have their topics drowned in the coffeeshop before another musician comes along. Which is why it has always been a relatively unvisited, but still seperate section.
As for The Site: I agree, it would be easier to send a pm to the webmaster (and a whole lot faster). As only recently Jason replied to some topics there that were around since the beginning of the section (almost).
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#4 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 30 May 2010 14:00

Oh, and just to be a pain in your proverbial ass: this topic should be in the "The Site" section
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#5 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 30 May 2010 14:58

Wholeheartedly agree there, though it would be extremely annoying to have everybody post their "please come to my backyard" topic in between all other BG stuff, despite the fact that there is a sticky topic about it already.
A sticky topic could help a bit, although new people tend to ignore it. But I don't see such a thing becoming a huge problem. This forum is highly Darwinistic in nature, especially when you up the postcount: interesting topics will stay on top whereas uninteresting topics will sink to the bottom. If a topic like 'please come to Kazachstan!' manages to attract three pages of replies, it is certainly justified in its existence.
I believe this was considered a few years ago, but back then the Metal section was rather steaming with action, which is why the Other Styles section was left intact, as to not have other music being drowned by teh metal noise. With current activity, it is possible though.
It's true that we had this same argument two years ago. And the same thing might happen in two years from now. If a huuuuge amount of topics about (say) Lady GaGa arises, then somebody will make an argument for a Lady Gaga-section sooner or later. That's great. The internet is a place which changes at a rapid rate, and the great thing about a place like this is that it reinvents itself every couple of years, such to accommodate the current demand.
Oh, and just to be a pain in your proverbial ass: this topic should be in the "The Site" section
I know, but nobody reads it anyway. :wink:
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#6 Post by Beren Ercharmion » 30 May 2010 17:31

I agree with most of the above.

I'd propose the following section

Music
consisting of a "Blind Guardian" and a "other stuff" (with a better name than that) scetion
General Issues
with Slaughterhouse and Coffee shop, as before.

Demons & Wizards could go to into the "other stuff" section, since, as was pointed out above, it's barely necessary to have an separate section for just two albums (and 13 topics).
I wouldn't merge it with the Blind Guardian section, because it's just Hansi, and not Blind Guardian (just as Thomen's projects shouldn't go into BG section)
The musicians section could be dropped as well, I guess, since there are basically no posts in it anyway. And I see no sense in keeping it just for a minority (and not even 350 posts in over a year).

The same goes for Fantasy, could be merged with the coffee shop either.

As for the Site section, in general I think it's not bad having a place for complaints/improvemens/general stuff directed at the admins (and especially Jason), but seeing that there's barely any activity. If you look at the tyoe of questions in there - a couple didn't even get a reply anyway, except for spambots (due to lack of people looking at them perhaps?), some are advertising Forummembers bands (wich would suit in the Music-section as well, especially since people would actually see it over there, and if a band is good it will stay on top, if it's bad it will either stay on top because everybody bashed it or it will get drowned by the rest. I see no problem there.
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#7 Post by spamel » 30 May 2010 17:35

I agree, this site is well overdue a section devoted to Mr Gaga!
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#8 Post by Belgarion » 30 May 2010 19:10

Blind Guardian
Tours
Music
Coffee Shop
Slaughterhouse


5 categories above ought to be enough, I'd say.
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#9 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 30 May 2010 19:19

Nice to know people agree with me in one way or another.

I added a poll to my original post to measure the general opinion (I see that out of 47 viewers about 6 have replied, which means there's a silent majority who might have an opinion on the matter).
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#10 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 30 May 2010 19:20

i like what you did there, belgarion... :twisted:
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#11 Post by Joost » 30 May 2010 19:25

IMO there's no need for a restructuring. As far as I can see, the forum is fine now, there have been quite a lot of restructurings already (leading to e.g. the disappearance of 'The Band' and 'Tolkien' and creation of 'Demons & Wizards', which all happened quite recently), and if we merge sections now, people will argue for new sections again some time in the future. Just a bit more than a year ago, there have been proposals to create new sections to the forum.

Nothing wrong with sections that are visited by smaller numbers of people, with smaller amounts of posts.

And The Site definitely shouldn't disappear. At least I don't have a lot of confidence that pms sent to the webmaster will always end up being discussed, within due time, with the mods and admins. (sorry Jason :P)
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#12 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 30 May 2010 19:34

i have more confidence in pm's being noted by Jason than the topics down here ;)
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#13 Post by Joost » 30 May 2010 19:35

If anything really important is noted here, and Jason won't reply, some mod or admin will probably forward it to Jason. ;) And some of the things mentioned in here can be fixed by the mods and admins, too.

But really, I don't feel at all like a restructuring of the forum. The last restructuring (which was quite a big one, including a move to phpBB3) was only a year ago, and led to an accidental pruning of all old posts on top of it...
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#14 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 30 May 2010 19:41

True..
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#15 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 30 May 2010 19:57

I think that the argument that the forum has changed in the past is a non-argument. Let's judge this on its own merits, not on preconceptions and fallacies.
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#16 Post by Joost » 30 May 2010 20:29

To be honest I'm not really interested in discussing this, and neither am I interested in trying to convince Jason or anyone of restructuring the forum. You can 'discuss' this with others, sure, and of course you can try to convince Jason of the need to make any changes, but I don't think it's likely that this will lead to anything constructive.

At some point in the past, the Metal and Other Styles sections got merged, a lot of people got angry, and it took me a lot of time to retrace the topics which belonged in Other Styles again.

And if you think this argument is a non-argument, why not address the other points I made?
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#17 Post by Webmaster » 31 May 2010 07:28

Joost wrote:And The Site definitely shouldn't disappear. At least I don't have a lot of confidence that pms sent to the webmaster will always end up being discussed, within due time, with the mods and admins. (sorry Jason :P)
No offense taken. :-P If people want to have things restructured and most people can agree on it then the moderators should let me know if I have to do anything and I will do it. I am pretty laid back with regards to forum stuff (whether this is good or bad, I don't know *hehe*). I would suggest getting rid of the Demons & Wizards category though.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#18 Post by Metal Fan » 31 May 2010 07:37

I would suggest finding a way to get rid of all the spambots first!
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#19 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 31 May 2010 09:01

Metal Fan wrote:I would suggest finding a way to get rid of all the spambots first!
This is the most important thing, but prolly a more difficult one as well..
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#20 Post by Mackasfour » 31 May 2010 09:59

Setup is perfectly fine, no change needed
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#21 Post by corrupted old gnom » 31 May 2010 23:16

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Dropping Demons And Wizards: although D&W is obviously brilliant they have only released two albums in ten years time, been on tour once, and have little perspective in the near future. Existing posts could be moved to either the Blind Guardian-section or the music-section (more on this in the next line).
definitely the first thing to drop - a topic in the music section is enough
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#22 Post by Joost » 31 May 2010 23:44

Or perhaps something like this?

Music:
- Blind Guardian
- Other music
- Musicians

General Issues:
- Coffee shop
- The Slaughterhouse
- Fantasy and Literature

Suggestions:
- Site and Forum

I would like to keep the Musicians section, because, even though it's not used very much, it does seem to have a bit of a community. I don't think anyone is ever bothered by the Musicians section, and there never is any confusion whether something belongs in the Musicians section or not. Thinking about it a bit more, I am starting to like the idea of merging Metal and Other Styles more than I did at first, because to be frank, most of the discussions on whether a band is metal or not are quite silly to begin with, and I'm not really a fan of such pigeonholing myself either. Whether to keep the Tours section or not, I'm not sure.

Perhaps Fantasy should be expanded to a more general 'Fantasy and Literature' section, because it's already used for non-fantasy books. Like in the case of Musicians, I would prefer keeping this section because it seems to have a bit of a community.

For clarity's sake, the Site section should be renamed into 'Site and Forum', and be put into a 'Suggestions:' category, rather than 'General Issues:', because that's really what the section is about. This section should IMO definitely be kept, because of the reasons I named in one of my earlier posts.


7 sections seems like a decent compromise between the people who want a drastic reduction to 4-5 sections, and the people who want to stay at the current 10 sections.

Opinions?
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#23 Post by Webmaster » 01 Jun 2010 07:28

I think it looks good.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#24 Post by Metal Fan » 01 Jun 2010 07:36

Me too. Screw the way it looks, GET RID OF THE SPAM BOTS!!
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#25 Post by Joost » 01 Jun 2010 09:39

Ah come on, please... quit the whining about spambots for a second. We're doing everything we can already... :S
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

::.: Homepage .::. last.fm .::. Facebook .::. Flickr :.::

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#26 Post by Desert_Storm » 01 Jun 2010 12:33

I think Joost´s proposal´s quite a good one, definitely d&w could easily be dropped and metal and other styles could be merged. I´m still not sure whether it needs the fantasy/literature section. After all, we don´t have a "games" or "movies" section, and those would be similar things. Courently, some movies/games are discussed in the fantasy section, others in the coffeeshop, and they didn´t bother anyone I think. So I would suggest to drop the literature section anyway, or rename it media... still, it does fit into the coffee shop, since I remember some film/book topics that ended up being general discussions (like that hurt locker thread).
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#27 Post by Joost » 01 Jun 2010 18:22

An 'other media' section, for Books + Movies + Games, sounds fine. (And with games I don't mean silly Slaughterhouse stuff like the counting game, word association, or a 'lose the game' topic, but e.g. computer/console games, board games or roleplaying games)

This would include almost everything that happens in the fantasy section now, and only a few things that happen in the Coffee Shop (e.g. the Hobbit thread, and the Avatar thread, which pretty much might have been at place in Fantasy anyway).

I guess a Media section like this probably will see more visitors than the current Fantasy section, and still be quite different from the Coffee Shop (which has a lot of political threads, semi-serious threads, etc.)
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#28 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 01 Jun 2010 18:33

i concur. it sounds like a plan
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#29 Post by Desert_Storm » 01 Jun 2010 18:38

Joost wrote: I guess a Media section like this probably will see more visitors than the current Fantasy section, and still be quite different from the tea Shop (which has a lot of political threads, semi-serious threads, etc.)
I could imagine that, too. Of course, a duscussion of one kind quickly changes into one of another, but I guess you could say that about all sections and merge them all into one (or two) giant sections, BG and "the rest" :P
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#30 Post by Beren Ercharmion » 01 Jun 2010 19:59

I really like your Setup, Joost, it's an improvement to the state the forum is in now. With replacing the fantasy & literature by a general Media-section or whatever it might be called, for stuff like Movies, Books and Games.
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#31 Post by Sentinel » 02 Jun 2010 10:11

+1

I really like that idea and I do believe these changes could result in a higher forum activity. At least this combined Books + Movies + Games thread will attract a lot more visitors, I´m sure.
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#32 Post by corrupted old gnom » 02 Jun 2010 21:58

what started not too convincing turns out to be a good move
joost's suggestion (incl. "media") seems to be the right thing to do
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#33 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Jun 2010 07:07

I also support Joost's proposal. A media-section is a great idea, and might encourage people to write more about them. Movies, for example.
spamel wrote:
Sleeping Dragon wrote:i just don't understand what's so wrong with being a woman...
Periods.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#34 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 04 Jun 2010 16:46

ok,so we're in agreement.let's celebrate with milk and cookies
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#35 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 13 Jun 2010 12:23

So how do we go from here?
spamel wrote:
Sleeping Dragon wrote:i just don't understand what's so wrong with being a woman...
Periods.

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#36 Post by Desert_Storm » 13 Jun 2010 18:00

Apparently still chewing on Benders cookies
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#37 Post by Mackasfour » 14 Jun 2010 13:45

Omnomnomnomnomnom
"How easily the mind can be turned to hate from a place of fear - an instinctive, natural, protective response. Instead of focusing on the things that unite us, we focus on what divides us."

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#38 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 16 Jun 2010 18:14

more cookies in the meantime then :mrgreen: i'm prepared for a looooooooooong wait
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#39 Post by Desert_Storm » 16 Jun 2010 20:29

Bender B. Rodriguez wrote:more cookies in the meantime then :mrgreen: i'm prepared for a looooooooooong wait
What do you reckon? One or two more albums in the meantime? :P
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#40 Post by Little Dragon » 16 Jun 2010 20:41

right after time comes out :P
YEE-HAW MOTHERFUCKER!

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which
I’m dying are the best I’ve ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
it’s a very very...

...Mad world

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#41 Post by Metal Fan » 16 Jun 2010 20:48

On bg time that could be a while :P
⋨The Dagor Dagorath, the great final battle at which the forces of the brothers Manwë and Melkor will face one another, and Arda will be unmade.⋩
Is in with Bender on his plan
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#42 Post by Little Dragon » 16 Jun 2010 20:51

wintersun time. even longer.
YEE-HAW MOTHERFUCKER!

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which
I’m dying are the best I’ve ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
it’s a very very...

...Mad world

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#43 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 16 Jun 2010 23:18

Desert_Storm wrote:
Bender B. Rodriguez wrote:more cookies in the meantime then :mrgreen: i'm prepared for a looooooooooong wait
What do you reckon? One or two more albums in the meantime? :P
Just imagine,it took this forum years to establish Moderators and Admins that actually did the job.Then,the decision of upgrading to the new software(wich allows us to post images),couple of years more?so i better start a whole new cookie factory.You're in switzerland,you bring milk and chocolate if possible :mrgreen:
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#44 Post by Desert_Storm » 17 Jun 2010 23:44

Bender B. Rodriguez wrote: Just imagine,it took this forum years to establish Moderators and Admins that actually did the job.Then,the decision of upgrading to the new software(wich allows us to post images),couple of years more?so i better start a whole new cookie factory.You're in switzerland,you bring milk and chocolate if possible :mrgreen:
Done and done! :mrgreen:
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#45 Post by Metal Fan » 18 Jun 2010 01:40

Image

Image
⋨The Dagor Dagorath, the great final battle at which the forces of the brothers Manwë and Melkor will face one another, and Arda will be unmade.⋩
Is in with Bender on his plan
Blind Guardian wrote:A fairly small but absolutely bravehearted crowd in Tempe has made that a night remember. Marcus(on behalf of the band) says: Thank you:-)

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#46 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 18 Jun 2010 02:38

i know kittys are cute,but he's now made a powerful enemy :evil:
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#47 Post by Metal Fan » 18 Jun 2010 05:43

Keep all the other cookies away from him!!
⋨The Dagor Dagorath, the great final battle at which the forces of the brothers Manwë and Melkor will face one another, and Arda will be unmade.⋩
Is in with Bender on his plan
Blind Guardian wrote:A fairly small but absolutely bravehearted crowd in Tempe has made that a night remember. Marcus(on behalf of the band) says: Thank you:-)

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#48 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 18 Jun 2010 17:20

i will keeeel him!
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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#49 Post by Metal Fan » 21 Jun 2010 07:24

Bender B. Rodriguez wrote:i will keeeel him!
And I will launch the Polaris.
⋨The Dagor Dagorath, the great final battle at which the forces of the brothers Manwë and Melkor will face one another, and Arda will be unmade.⋩
Is in with Bender on his plan
Blind Guardian wrote:A fairly small but absolutely bravehearted crowd in Tempe has made that a night remember. Marcus(on behalf of the band) says: Thank you:-)

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Re: Proposing a restructuring of the forum

#50 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 21 Jun 2010 21:35

Finally!
☢ ☢ ☢ all hail the deathweed ☢ ☢ ☢

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