Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

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Gandalf de Grijze
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#401 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 11 Jul 2013 23:19

PAGE!!!
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#402 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:12

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:PAGE!!!

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#403 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:30

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:PAGE!!!
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Prion creation theory myth
According to the central mythology of CJD chat rooms, the standard model of prion disease was explicitly and accurately introduced by the mathematician JS Griffith in 1966 in his only publication in this area, and that somehow SB Prusiner has stolen the credit for this notion.

It turns out that Griffith was indeed close to the target with his second mechanism (below) -- it still sounds fairly good 30 years later. Most amusingly, Griffith himself does not take credit for this idea, but clearly attributes it to a 1957 paper of the Penroses {Nature #4571 p1183 1957], who are said to have elaborated on a 1922 paper by A Gratia (Brit Med J ii 296 1922). It can quickly be seen from a PubMed search that Griffiths' idea had no any follow-up or support of any kind.

The Penrose paper is a short letter with no citations. Wooden blocks of two types in a one-dimensional rack assemble into "dimers" when shaken, but only if and as directed by the configuration of dimer it is seeded with. The dimers in the example cannot form higher order aggregates or dissociate. The 1922 journal is not readily available.

The Gratia paper is part IV of a set of discussions on the topic of 'bacteriophage.' It consists of a few arguments regarding why bacteriophages need not be living organisms. One argument involves an analogy between the spread of fire and the reproduction of living organisms, and the other (the probable source of the 'prion hypothesis' citation) discusses how a small fraction of thrombin produced in one test tube can be used to cause plasma in another tube to clot, after which a small fraction of the second product can be used to clot another tube, ad infinitum. While one can see how this discussion is part of the intellectual history of the prion hypothesis, it does not suggest that Gratia orininated the concept.


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Griffith was clearly not familiar with the biochemistry of protein oligomers and diseases of protein aggregation, which were already well-developed subjects in 1967. Looking back at 1967 undergraduate biochemistry texts, we can confirm that Griffith's reaction chains, thermodynamic equations, and potential barrier theory of dimer conformational change were commonly taught to college students in that year. Griffith's free energy driving force, for example, is exactly that of a coupled ATPase.

This is a key point, so worth repeating: all three of Griffith's mechansims were unoriginal -- all standard ideas covered in 1967 protein chemistry textbooks. Griffith's work was original only in the sense that he was not familiar with the scientific literature outside his field.


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Now Griffith should be credited more often than he is for writing a prescient mini-review article on protein 'self-replication' with possible application to the scrapie mechanism of replication. [The protein-only nature of the agent he attributes to Pattison and Alper.] And batting one for three (on the models he found in the literature) is better than most theorists do -- make that one for twenty, looking at his other papers. Experimentalists would say, tell us which one of the twenty ideas is the good one.

Prusiner clearly and explcitly cites the key paper of Griffith as reference 32 in a 1982 paper, Science 216 136-144 1982 . Griffith is cited in the fourth section, 'Hypothetical Structures of the Scrapie Agent,' in a long review article, but for protein-only, not for mechanistic details. The passage reads:
...Hypotheses on the chemical structure of the scrapie agent have included: sarcosporidia parasite, "filterable" virus, small DNA virus, replicating protein [Griffith cited], replicating abnormal polysaccharide within membrane....
Here is Prusiner writing 15 years later with the subject still awash in speculation. So progress was not being held back by a shortage of hypotheses but lack of decisive experiment. If sarcosporidia had later carried the day, should that author be the visionary hero and Griffith the dunce?

It can also be seen that Griffith published in short order eight other wildly speculative papers on neurobiology [DNA ticketing theory of memory, neural organization underlying conscious thought, etc .. see below], none of which ever went anywhere. It is abundantly clear that he was not what a mathematician would consider a mathematician; rather it is applied mathematics/bioengineering centered on process control theory. None of this bears on the merits of the 1967 scrapie paper.

Another minor myth -- that Prusiner's group came across the Griffith paper by juxtapositional accident as Bolton was xeroxing the paper just ahead of it -- checks out. That would be the eminently forgettable article in Nature 215 1041-43 1967 'Nature of the Scrapie Agent' by RA Gibbons and GD Hunter (agent is an altered 3D structural membrane pattern). You cannot xerox the last page without also xeroxing the first column of three of "Self-replication and Scrapie' by JS Griffith of the Math Dept., Bedford College, London.

There does not exist an earlier paper by Prusiner in which he cites the 1967 Gibbons and Hunter paper but not the adjacent Griffith paper -- see table below. Prusiner's group has published 300 peer-reviewed experimental papers on prions. True, there is a mind-numbing repetitiveness in the introduction/history to prion papers from all authors, as no one can be bothered to actually look up the history and each safely copies the cites from the last, but this is true for every subject in molecular biology and can't be taken as a conspiracy to short-change Griffith.

Oops, I meant short-change Gardia. Penrose, and Lehninger.

It would make more sense to critique Prusiner -- or even better, Griffith -- for not citing the sickle cell hemoglobin papers -- they had a huge mass of experimental backing and are much more germaine to rogue prion formation than a packet of shotgun speculation and guesswork .

But it would make even better sense not to critique Prusiner's bibliographic practises at all -- on the whole, they are very thorough; in the worse case scenario, they are comparable to everyone else's. Credit has to mainly go to whoever establishes the experimentally-demonstrated correct sequence of events -- and we're not quite there yet.

And the devil is always in the details: why the alpha to beta shift, which residues are critical and why, can this component of the species barrier be predicted, can the rogue conformer be differentially assayed, how critical is Hsp 70, where does the change occur, are CLDs integral, how do we intervene, and so on. You won't find even a wiff of any of this in Giffith.

Prusiner's problem is not Griffiths but the fact that there simply isn't anything paradigm-breaking about prion replication in the final analysis. It all comes about via the central dogma of molecular biology: DNA to RNA to protein to oligomer. The gene is very ordinary in structure and sequence. Prion protein undergoes a reversible quaternary conformational shift, but so do the vast majority of known proteins. Stability of the recruited state is a matter of energy levels and context.


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So the only potentially interesting aspects are the generality of the beta structure, the normal role, the origin of toxicity, and the mechanism of transmissional propagation (which could be boring if attributable to the GPI lipid anchor migrating up neural processes). The only unusual aspect is the net result of confluencing so many aspects, each fairly unremarkable in itself, into a single protein. Poor solubility, lack of assays, and lab hazard conspired to make it hard to work out.

Gunther Stent used to say that each subject in science progressed through its romantic, academic, and pedantic phases. Prion research is transitioning into the academic phase in 1997.



So what is really in the text of this Giffith paper?

Paragraph 1 reviews the data of 1967 (agent mol wt ~20k, probably no nucleic acid, seen in goats, sheep, rats, mice, hamsters). At least three distinct ways in which proteins might self-replicate are said to be possible so "there is no reason to fear that the existence of a protein agent would cause the whole theoretical structure of moledcular biology to come tumbling down."

Paragraph 2-8 deal with the first protein self-replication mechanism. This is an unoriginal variant of 1967 bacterial operon theory a la Monod and Jacob, involving self-regulation of gene expression. A mutated control region of the scrapie gene does not allow the scrapie agent to be expressed, unless an exogenous scrapie agent can come in and act as inducer for itself or via a small metabolite that it makes.

Paragraph 9-14 deal with the second protein self-replication mechanism. It is adapted from a proposal by Roger and LS Penrose, Nature 179 1183 1957, which in turn implements the 1922 idea of A Gratia (Brit MedJ ii 296 1922). This involves monomers, dimers, trimers, tetramers, associations, dissassociations, normal conformers, favorable free energies, conformational change catalyzed by oligomers, an isozyme-like theory of scrapie strains, and talk of 'condensation nuclei" and new conformations formed on "templates." The reaction chains, equations, and potential barriers could be found in minor variation in any undergraduate biochemistry textbook of 1967, such as Lenninger, albeit not in the context of scrapie..

Paragraph 15 deals with the third protein self-replication mechanism. Prion prion induces an antigen that happens to have the same covalent structure as itself. Griffith notes prions are not antigenic.
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Paragraph 16 dismisses mechanism 3 and concludes that the agent might be a protein that an animial "is genetically equipped to make, but which it either does not normallyu make or does not make in that form. It may be passed between animals but be actually a distinct protein in different species. Finally, ... there is the possibility of spontaneous appearance of the disease in previously healthy animals."

There are 14 references, fairly standard, except as noted.



Griffith JS, 1969
DNA ticketing theory of memory.
Nature 223, 580-582 (1969)


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Griffith JS, 1968
The unification of neural activity.
Proc. R. Soc. Lond., B, Biol. Sci. 171, 353-359 (1968)

Griffith JS, 1968
Mathematics of cellular control processes. II. Positive feedback to one gene.
J. Theor. Biol. 20, 209-216 (1968)

Griffith JS, 1968
Mathematics of cellular control processes. I. Negative feedback to one gene.
J. Theor. Biol. 20, 202-208 (1968)

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Griffith JS, 1967
Self-replication and scrapie.
Nature 215, 1043-1044 (1967)

Griffith JS, 1967
Neural organization underlying conscious thought.
Nature 214, 345-349 (1967)

Griffith JS, 1966
An analysis of spontaneous impulse activity of units in the striate cortex of
unrestrained cats.
J. Physiol. 186, 616-634 (1966)

Griffith JS, 1966
A theory of the nature of memory.
Nature 211, 1160-1163 (1966)

Griffith JS, 1965
A field theory of neural nets. II. Properties of the field equations.
Bull Math Biophys 27, 187-195 (1965)



Protein-only Theory
Griffith attributes the protein-only theory to:

Patison IH and Jones, KM Vet Rec 80 2 196

Alper T, Haig, DA, and Clarke, MC BBRC22 2 278 1966



It would make more sense to critique Prusiner --or even better, Griffith -- for not citing the sickle cell hemoglobin papers -- they had a huge mass of experimental backing and are much more germaine to rogue prion formation than a packet of shotgun sp">Earliest Prusiner Papers: whom do they cite?Griffith? Gibbons and Hunter? Prusiner publication
no no PNAS 74 4656-60 1977
no no Biochemistry 17 pg 4999 1978
no no PNAS 77 2984-2988 1980
#32 #33 Science 216 136-144 1982 [April]
no no PNAS 79 5220-24 1982 [September]




Does the agent of scrapie replicate without nucleic acid?
Nature 214 (90): 764-766 (1967)
Alper T, Cramp WA, Haig DA, Clarke MC
This is a famous paper commonly said to show that nucleic acids were not part of the scrapie agent. They irradiated with UV light at two wavelengths, using the highly resistant organism Micorcoccus radiodurans as control. UV light forms cyclobutadiene thymine dimers in DNa whenever two T's are adjacent; these prevent the DNA from being replicated. Earlier studies had found the same result with ionizing radiation.

Scrapie resistance was complete at dosages that knocked the control viability down 3 logs in activity, giving rise to the oft-cited Fig1 and 2 of this paper. Residual scrapie titer was measured by serial dilution, using intra-cranial injection in 7-8 mice at every dilution.



Viroids and prions.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 79 (17): 5220-5224 (1982)
Diener TO, McKinley MP, Prusiner SB
Viroids are small "naked" infectious RNA molecules that are pathogens of higher plants. The potato spindle tuber viroid (PSTV) is composed of a covalently closed circular RNA molecule containing 359 ribonucleotides. The properties of PSTV were compared with those of the scrapie agent, which causes a degenerative neurological disease in animals. PSTV was inactivated by ribonuclease digestion, psoralen photoadduct formation, Zn2+ -catalyzed hydrolysis, and chemical modification with NH2OH. The scrapie agent resisted inactivation by these procedures, which modify nucleic acids. The scrapie agent was inactivated by proteinase K and trypsin digestion, chemical modification with diethylpyrocarbonate, and by exposure to phenol, NaDodSO4, KSCN, or urea. PSTV resisted inactivation by these procedures, which modify proteins. Earlier evidence suggested that the scrapie agent is smaller than PSTV. Its small size seems to preclude the presence of a genome coding for the protein(s) of a putative capsid. The properties of the scrapie agent distinguish it from both viroids and viruses and have prompted the introduction of the term "prion" to denote a small proteinaceous infectious particle that resists inactivation by procedures that modify nucleic acids.



Novel proteinaceous infectious particles cause scrapie.
Science 216 (4542): 136-144 (1982)
Prusiner SB
After infection and a prolonged incubation period, the scrapie agent causes a degenerative disease of the central nervous system in sheep and goats. Six lines of evidence including sensitivity to proteases demonstrate that this agent contains a protein that is required for infectivity. Although the scrapie agent is irreversibly inactivated by alkali, five procedures with more specificity for modifying nucleic acids failed to cause inactivation. The agent shows heterogeneity with respect to size, apparently a result of its hydrophobicity; the smallest form may have a molecular weight of 50,000 or less. Because the novel properties of the scrapie agent distinguish it from viruses, plasmids, and viroids, a new term "prion" is proposed to denote a small proteinaceous infectious particle which is resistant to inactivation by most procedures that modify nucleic acids. Knowledge of the scrapie agent structure may have significance for understanding the causes of several degenerative diseases.



1. The Twort phenomenon and the d'Herelle phenomenon are identical. They are two different aspects of one and the same phenomenon: the transmissible lysis of bacteria. When the " dissolving material " of Twort found in diseased agar cultures of micrococci obtained from vaccinia lymph is transplanted into a young broth culture of staphylococci a dissolution. of the latter occurs, and the filtrate of the dissolved culture exhibits all the characteristics of a typical staphylococcus bacteriophage according to the definition of d'Herelle. On the other hand, typical staphylococcus bacteriophage could be obtained also by other means--namely by the leucocytic exudate technique of Bordet and Ciuca, or by the puncture of a subcutaneous abscess. When small amounts of this staphylococcus lytic agent are introduced in melted agar which is afterwards slanted and seeded with sensitive staphylococci a culture results, apparently normal at the beginning, but which, a little later, turns into the typical glassy transparent material of Twort. In other words, the Twort phenomenon leads to the d'Herelle phenomenon, and, inversely, the d'Herelle phenomenon leads to the Twort phenomenon. 2. There are no unquestionable proofs that the bacteriophage is a living organism. The assumption of the: bacteriophage being a filterable virus for bacteria was suggested by two main facts: (a) The power of reproduction possessed by the lytic agent, and (b) the localization of the lysis to certain round spots of clarification when a very diluted lytic agent is poured over the surface of an agar culture of sensitive bacteria. Although easily explained by the virus theory, yet both facts are not unquestionable proofs of the living nature of the bacteriophage, because they are by no means exclusive features of living beings. Fire is not living, and yet fire is endowed with power of reproduction. When once lighted, thanks to an initial impu1sion such as an electric spark or the mere striking of a match, it can be indefinitely reproduced if fuel is provided. A still more striking, because more biological, example is found in blood coagulation. Suppose a series of test tubes containing a stable plasma--bird's plasma, for instance, --which will remain indefinitely fluid. To the first tube we add just a few cubic centimetres of distilled water. As a result of that initial thromboplastic action, which does not need to be repeated in the future, thrombin suddenly appears in the first tube and the plasma clots. If a few drops of the exudate serum in the first tube are pipetted off and poured in the next tube, this second tube clots, in its turn, with a new regeneration of thrombin, which, transferred in the third tube, brings about thc coagulation of that tube with again a new production of thrombin, and so on indefinitely. In this way we realize the transmissible coagulation of blood in series, with the continuous regeneration of thrombin, and thrombin is not a living being. The localization of the lytic action of diluted bacteriophage can be explained by the hypothesis of a chemical substance as well, It must be kept in mind that a culture is not a homogeneous whole, but made up of organisms showing allkinds of qualitative and quantitative individual differences--that is, as far as their susceptibility to the lytic agent is concerned. When a very concentrated lytic agent is poured over the surface of an agar culture an almost complete dissolution occurs, with the exception of just a few organisms resistant enough to overwhelm the strong action of this concentrated lytic agent. On the other hand, when a diluted lytic agent is used only the few extremely sensitive bacteria will be influenced, and each of them becomes a centre of regeneration of the lytic agent, which, diffusing evenly in every direction, produces perfectly round spots of clarification very often surrounded by a kind of halo of diffusion. Between these two extreme conditions all kinds of intermediate degrees exist. Further, any substance, living or not, is composed of particles, molecules, atoms, or ions. When we pour out a glass of soda water, there appear on the wall of the glass small round bubbles of gas, the size of which increase exactly as the so-called colonies of bacteriophage, and yet gas is not a virus. 3. The idea of the bacteriophage being a product of bacterial activity is suggested by the close parallelism existing between, the regeneration of the lytic agent on the one hand, and activity of growth of the bacteria on the other hand. No regeneration ever occurs in dead cultures, nor in living cultures when put in such conditions that they cannot grow-- in saline emulsions of bacteria, for instance, or at low temperature. A slight lysis, with but a small regeneration of lytic agent, is induced in the slow-growing culture of B. coli in a synthetic medium. On the contrary, an abundant regeneration occurs in a fast-growing culture in broth. A recently seeded broth culture to which is added just a trace of lytic agent will not be inhibited ; but a few hours later, at the very moment the culture reaches its acme of growth, a rapid dissolution occurs with abundant regeneration of lytic agent. 4. The conception of the bacteriophage being a chemical substance is favored by the chemical-like affinity existing between a given lytic agent and the corresponding susceptible strain I first observed that small amounts of lytic agents lose a certain part of their activity when put together with too thick emulsions of sensitive bacteria. Bordet, with a different technique, could even obtain the complete disappearance of traces of lytic agent in the same condition. Still more convincing are the results of Yaumain and of Da Costa, who observed the absorption of relatively important amount of lytic agent by dead emulsions of the corresponding sensitive bacteria. This specific affinity which is the necessary condition for a lytic agent for inducing the dissolution of a given bacterium is not favourable to the virus theory, because we question how a virus could be definitely fixed by dead bacilli, which, however, it is unable to attack. 5. The bacteriophage is not one and the same antigen. Several lytic agents showing antigenic specificity must be considered. The coli lytic agent can be completely neutralized by proper amounts of corresponding coli antilytic serum, but is not at all affected by staphylococcus antilytic serum, which, on the other hand, is only able to neutralize staphylococcus lytic agent and not coli lytic agent. This neutralization reaction is thus specific, and demonstrates the plurality of the bacteriophage. The non-specific results obtained with the alexin fixation reaction and advocated by d'Herelle in favour of the unicity of the bacteriophage, are of no value, because they are vitiated, as can be easily demonstrated, by thc presence in the bacteriophage of bacterial dissolution products which have lost their specificity and play therefore the role of common antigen between different lytic agents. Br Med J 1922 ii 296-297
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#404 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:37

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:PAGE!!!
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How Now Mad Cow?
by Professor Richard Lacey
The risk of mass infection of BSE in humans is very real.
Richard Lacey is Professor of Clinical Microbiology at Leeds University. He has a degree in medicine from Cambridge University and a Ph.D in clinical microbiology from the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Bristol.

As well as publishing over 200 papers in scientific and medical journals, Professor Lacey has lectured extensively overseas and broadcast frequently on radio and television. His work has won him a number of prizes, including the Evian Health Prize for Medicine and the Caroline Walker Award for Science.

Professor Lacey has been an advisor to the British Government and is widely recognised as a world authority on mad cow disease.
What is BSE and how did it start?
BSE, better known as mad cow disease, stands for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, an infectious and incurable disease which slowly attacks the brain and nervous system of cattle. Spongiform encephalopathies are nothing new and are not confined to cattle. Scrapie, the form of the disease found in sheep, has been common in Britain for the past 200 years and a human version, Kuru, was once epidemic in tribal New Guinea. By late 1994, a handful of people in Britain had died from another human version, Creutzfeldt Jakob disease (CJD).

BSE has been epidemic in British cattle for the last ten years. The first confirmed cases were reported in late 1986 but it is believed that the first case may have occurred in Hampshire in 1985. By early 1995 it had been identified in almost 150,000 cattle and more than half of all British herds.


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The exact origin of BSE is not known, but simplistic claims that it came from sheep are now discredited. BSE is an incurable disease caused by a mystery 'infectious agent'. The agent is not a virus or bacteria - nobody knows what it is. It has broken the most basic rules of biology. Any cure still lies at the very limits of present-day science.
What does it do?
The period between becoming infected and showing symptoms for spongiform encephalopathies is long in relation to the life span of the animal or human involved. For example, Kuru in humans can take as long as 30 years before the person becomes visibly ill. The disease bores into the brain and nervous system very slowly but once established it rapidly causes dementia and death. No treatment works. Post mortems show the brain to be sponge-like and full of holes, hence the name 'spongiform'.

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In cattle, the first signs occur when the cow is put under any slight pressure or stress. Movement to a milking station might induce fear, panic and stumbling and the infected animal may stand away from the rest of the herd, holding it's head in an awkward posture. Despite a good appetite, the amount of milk she produces may drop and she usually loses a lot of weight.


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As the muscles waste away, there may be twitchings, quiverings and shaking. Strange behaviour can occur, such as grinding teeth and sometimes the moo is odd. The cow over-reacts to touch and becomes very jumpy. Eventually, she will shake violently, stagger and in the end be completely unable to stand up.

It is the combination of a drop in milk and the fear that the cow will fall and be unable to stand again that makes the farmer call in the vet. If the animal does not recover, it is slaughtered and the head (with it's nervous tissue) is removed for examination as it is officially believed that this is the only infected part of the animal. This is unlikely as flesh also contains nervous tissue. It also ignores the possibility of the disease being passed from mother to calf.


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The rest of the cow's body should be burnt but as many as 30% of infected carcasses end up in landfill sites where they could be disturbed by tractors, bulldozers, dogs or rodents. As BSE is an extremely strong disease, it remains infective even after years in the soil.

When cattle are killed for food, the same procedure applies - the head (and some other parts such as the spinal cord, spleen and thymus - 'specified offal') is removed. The Government say that people will not be at risk when they eat cows but the flesh (containing infected nervous tissue) is eaten and the bones are eventually made into gelatine which finds it's way into many products.
How widespread is BSE?
By late 1994, the disease had been identified in nearly 150,000 animals and in just over half of all cattle herds in Britain. Some scientists including myself believe that the only way to tackle the problem would be to destroy all herds with cattle incubating the disease.

BSE has affected all breeds including, significantly, Jersey and Guernsey cattle on their respective islands. The black and white Friesian Holstein cows are the most commonly affected simply because there are far more of them in Britain than other breeds. The youngest case so far recorded of a cow showing the symptoms of BSE was 20 months and the oldest 18 years.

The cattle industry in Britain is under constant pressure to produce more milk and dairy products at the lowest possible cost because we, the public, demand it. The price of our daily pinta is paid for dearly by the suffering of animals.

To provide as much milk as possible, cows are often fed protein-rich concentrated food made from the carcasses of other dead animals that have been sent to knackers yards or rendering plants. Cows only produce milk when they have had a calf. After a nine month pregnancy, the calf is removed within a day or two of birth. A few months later, while still producing milk, the cow is artificially inseminated again. Cows have around three or four pregnancies before their milk yield begins to drop.They are eventually slaughtered at six or seven years old, even though its natural lifespan would be 20 years or more. Most parts of the cow are used to make burgers, sausages, pies, stocks and pet food. Until 1989, this also included the brain.


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More than 90 per cent of BSE cases have been in cows rather than bulls, simply because cows live longer. Beef animals are usually slaughtered around three years old and veal calves at six months. As BSE appears when the animal is around four to five years old, most beef animals are slaughtered before they are old enough to show symptoms, although they may have the disease.
Is BSE a danger to humans?
All the evidence so far suggests that humans are not immune from infection. The Fore tribe live in Papua New Guinea, a place unexplored by Westerners until the second half of the twentieth century.

Cannibalism, especially by women hoping to increase fertility, was common until very recently, and this led to an outbreak of 'Kuru', a human form of scrapie. Kuru killed up to 80 per cent of women in some villages but how it first started is unknown. Because it occurred within families and mostly amongst women, it was first thought that Kuru was inherited genetically. Scientists have since proved beyond doubt that Kuru is infectious and that the disease was transmitted by eating meat, in this case human meat.

If BSE can be transmitted to humans then the resulting illness is expected to be like our own form of Kuru - Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD). As a spongiform encephalopathy, this is again a disease of the brain and is always fatal.

Like Kuru, patients first show symptoms of mental changes, such as problems with co-ordination, recent memory loss and slurred speech. Sometimes obvious twitching of muscles can be seen, the facial expression becomes fixed and the person may stumble and fall over. Over the next few weeks, the person becomes confused and unaware, unable to read or recognise even close relatives.

Towards the end of the illness the patient is unconscious and not reacting to anyone, often having fits or jerking spasms and is doubly incontinent, blind, deaf and speechless. Patients continue to be fed but are rarely placed on a respirator nor given antibiotics for infections, particularly of the lung. It is the latter which usually results in death.

During the post mortem, extreme care must be taken because the disease is incredibly infectious. The pathologist wears a mask, goggles, gloves, boots and a plastic apron and any instruments that have been used on patients suffering from CJD have to be thoroughly sterilised. For example, the silver needles used for the EEG (brain examination) must be treated with high pressure steam for prolonged periods of time or put through six successive heat cycles in a steriliser. Even then there is no guarantee of destroying the infection. If contaminated instruments are used on another patient (which they will be if the person was not visibly ill with CJD), the disease can, and indeed has been, transferred.

CJD is so feared by some people in the medical profession that they have refused to perform autopsies on patients suspected of dying from it. Some hospitals have even refused to admit patients suffering from it.
What is the connection?
It is now known that regular eaters of veal (and other beef products) are 13 times more likely to die of CJD than those who don't. The prospect of a huge number of people dying from BSE as CJD next century is very real; that is, CJD and BSE are one and the same.
What is being done?
Very little. The British Government has hidden the facts and fiddled the evidence at every stage of the investigation into mad cow disease. It has told expert scientists, including it's own advisors, to keep quiet in case the hugely profitable meat industry suffers. In May 1988, the government set up The Southwood Committee to examine the risks of BSE to both animal and human health. Extraordinarily, it had no experts on spongiform encephalopathies and none were consulted. Although experts in their own areas, none of the members of the Southwood Committee had done any research into spongiform diseases.

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A month after the first meeting, the Government, on the advice of the committee, ordered the compulsory slaughter and destruction of carcasses of all affected cattle. It was already too late. Between the date of the first known case of BSE in late 1986 and the middle of 1988, at least 600 obviously diseased cows (plus an unknown number of animals not yet obviously ill) had been slaughtered and their meat had found its way onto supermarket shelves. Half the normal price of carcasses was paid in compensation, which encouraged farmers not to report suspect cattle. The real extent of the problem remained unknown.

The second recommendation of the Southwood Committee was to set up another committee to do more research, which simply admitted that the problem was too big. The next meeting of the committee was five months later, some indication of how serious the Government regarded the problem.

The report admitted that spongiform encephalopathies are a danger to humans and stated: 'With the very long incubation period of spongiform encephalopathies in humans, it may be a decade or more before complete reassurance can be given.' The Southwood Committee went on to say how they thought the disease was passed on, saying that eating was low down on the list of possible reasons. While admitting that all cows had got the disease by eating, they were suggesting one rule for cattle and another for humans. It was easy for a cow to get BSE through eating but very difficult for humans to get CJD by doing the same.

Two other general conclusions of the Southwood report were that the risk of vertical transmission of BSE (passing the disease from mother to calf) was non-existent (since proved incorrect) and that cattle would prove to be a 'dead-end host', which means the disease would stop at cows and not infect other species. This introduces the revolutionary biological concept of a non-infectious infection. Cattle are not a dead-end host. BSE has been spread to other species and this was known at the time of the report. The Southwood report stated that '...if our assessment of these likelihoods (of possible human infection) are incorrect, the implications would be extremely serious.' Their assessments have been shown to be incorrect. We do have a terrible crisis on our hands.
Who cares?
Evidence that the Government was less than concerned about the risk to the British public comes from the Tyrell Report, produced by the research committee set up as a result of the Southwood Report. For example, this said that the brains of cattle normally sent for slaughter should be checked to see if some animals had BSE and were not yet ill with it. This would have shown how big the problem really was. Not surprisingly, this has never been done, despite numerous requests from the UK Parliament, because it would have been 'too expensive'. Too expensive for the meat industry, that is. Once consumers realised that they were eating infected meat, profits would have plummeted.

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The report also recommended monitoring all UK cases of CJD over the next 20 years (as a matter of 'urgency'!) to reassure the public that there was no link with BSE. At present 'monitoring' means that a researcher checks death certificates for CJD. That's it as far as the UK Department of Health is concerned. Of course, a real investigation was not planned because it would admit that the government was scared of a major public health problem.

It finished by saying that more research was needed and that the controls at that time to prevent the disease spreading were not enough. Overall, the report was an excellent analysis of the situation as it was in 1989 but many of the proposals it made were ignored by the government. This report, dated June 1989, was not released until January 9 1990, showing just how urgent the Government thought it was. By this time they had accepted that they did not know whether the disease could pass from cow to calf whether it was possible other species could get BSE, or that the recent suggested increase in sheep scrapie was the cause of the rise in BSE cases.


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In April 1990, the Tyrell Committee became 'permanent', a surprising development as, according to the government, BSE was about to disappear.
The feed ban
As part of the cannibalistic merry-go-round that is an economically essential part of the meat industry, all the bits of animals from slaughterhouses unsuitable for human consumption are boiled up to produce fat and protein. The protein makes animal feed.

Apart from the obvious high risk of different infections being passed on, it seems strange that nobody had actually questioned the biological sense of forcing naturally vegetarian animals to become carnivores, eating the remains of other animals. This is probably what has caused the spread of BSE.

In June 1988, the government imposed a six-month ban on feeding animal protein to cows and sheep as it was thought this was the most likely way these animals would become infected. In December, the ban was extended for 12 months and laws stopped the sale of milk from cattle suspected of having the disease. Banning infected feed did not stop the rise of BSE. Cases rose from 500 per month in January 1989 to 900 per month in December 1989.

The 'mysterious agent' that causes spongiform encephalopathies has been found in many of the organs and tissues of animals. For example, cells from the spleen, thymus and tonsils ('specified offal' banned for use in animal feed in 1989) enter the blood and find their way to many organs including the liver and bones. The bones of old cows are one of the major sources of the protein gelatine, used in many foods from peppermints to pork pies. The greatest risk could come from bones because the procedures used to concentrate and purify gelatine could create a stronger source of BSE. With the passing from mother to calf of BSE confirmed in 1993/94, blood could also contain the disease, at least as far as cattle are concerned.

The problem, of course, did not go away. The number of BSE cases per month rose from 800 in January 1990 to 1,500 in December 1990. The Southwood Committee had predicted a maximum of 400 cases per month.
We were wrong but we're not sorry...
After four years of Government reassurances that BSE could not infect other species, tests carried out in February 1990 proved the opposite. BSE was transmitted to mice by feeding and to other cattle by injection. Cattle were no longer 'dead-end hosts'. The disease had never been previously reported in cats but in May of the same year, a domestic cat died from a spongiform encephalopathy. Even then the Government stuck to its guns and denied that spongiform encephalopathies could jump species. In fact, that is the very nature of the disease. By the time 52 other cats had died in July, the government finally admitted that they had contracted the disease through eating 'pet food'. The question was no longer 'Can BSE affect other species?' but 'How many species will it affect?'

A month before, in January, trading standards officers revealed that infected cattle were still being sent to market because farmers were still only being given half of the normal price for their cows. A Ministry official denied that BSE was finding it's way into our food but some people weren't quite so convinced. In April 1990, Humberside County Council banned the use of British beef in school meals. The number of known cases of BSE passed the 10,000 mark.

In April 1991, the Ministry of Agriculture predicted that a peak in the number of BSE cases would occur in 1991 and the disease would disappear by 1994. By the end of the year, 25,025 cases had been confirmed in Great Britain, providing the first indications that, despite government claims to the contrary, the disease was being passed from cow to calf.

The following year, BSE was transmitted experimentally to seven out of eight species of mammal, including pigs and marmoset monkeys. In four experiments, this was by eating. A puma and a cheetah were also reported to have died of the disease. Evidence was mounting of an uncontrollable epidemic, with serious implications for humans.


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CJD, the human form of BSE, claimed the lives of two dairy farmers who had tended herds with BSE infected cattle. The number of human CJD cases in Great Britain was nearly ten times higher than the annual number recorded 25 years earlier and twice as high as the number recorded five years earlier. Vicky Rimmer, a 15 year old Welsh girl, developed the symptoms of CJD, despite no family history of the disease or medical mishaps such as faulty blood transfusion. She was also extremely young considering the very long period it normally takes for symptoms to show. This meant that the disease was most probably contracted from an external source, more than likely food.

A doctor from the CJD surveillance unit examined Vicky and told her mother not to make her daughter's case public. According to the Daily Mirror (January 25 1994) he told her she should think of the economy and the Common Market.

More than 17,000 cases of BSE were confirmed in cattle born after the feed ban, with 500 cases known to have come from mothers which later developed BSE. This meant that BSE was infecting cows by means other than infected food. However, the government tries to explain this by blaming farmers, feed compounders and renderers for breaking the law - they accuse them of continuing to put ground-up sheep and cattle into cattle feed. This is manifest nonsense and is the last ditch attempt to deny the occurrence of vertical transfer of BSE (where the mother passes on BSE to her calf in the womb). The existence of vertical transfer means that the infectious agent must be in the cow's blood and will therefore be found in virtually all beef products.

In 1994 the government had still taken no action to control cattle being moved from BSE infected herds to other herds, nor had they taken any other steps to control the epidemic. The total number of BSE cases confirmed exceeded 137,000 by the end of August 1994 - more than six times the number predicted by the Southwood Committee in their 'worst case scenario'. However, in April 1994, it was admitted that cows did pass BSE on to their calves.
What can we conclude from this?
Basically two things. Firstly, almost 10 years after BSE was first identified, expert knowledge is still virtually nil. And, as if to cover this up, all the available evidence suggests that the government has carefully manipulated the facts to avoid doing anything about it. The main reason is to protect the huge vested interests of the meat industry - the cost of compensation for replacing six million infected cattle could run into billions of pounds. The bad international publicity from this would endanger UK food exports, tourism and even much of our industry. Secondly, there is a very real risk of mass infection in the human population. The government has made sure of that.

And while the time bomb of the twentieth century equivalent to bubonic plague ticks away, we all have to take responsibility into our own hands. The simple and safest answer of course is to stop eating animals. In the absence of any accurate, reliable or simply truthful information coming from 'the experts', the choice has to be yours.


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This article is copyrighted by Viva! and may not be reproduced without permission.
Mad Cow Disease: The History of BSE in Britain
by Richard W. Lacey ... (Cypsela Pub.Ltd; Jersey, Channel Islands 1994)


Selective Quotations from the book... compiled by Michael Greger

Government Inaction:

78 The Tyrrell Report [was dated] just four months later [than the Southwood Report], but was not released until "January 9 1990, 7 months after it was printed."

80 "the definitive proposal to study the human risk..." is to "check death certificates for CJD." over the next 20 years. "This is just about the total sum of research done by the UK Department of Health."

117 "I just cannot believe that a[n "honourable independent"] scientist will say: 'In order to find out how big the problem is we are going to see how many people die.'"

97 "The whole story of the action (and inaction) by the [British] Government following the Southwood and Tyrrell Reports has been one of delays, obfuscation, and misinformation..."

58 "As far as I can ascertain, none of [the members of the Southwood Committee]..., nor the chairman, had undertaken any research in the field of spongiform diseases."

59 "What was quite extraordinary about the composition of the [Southwood] committee was the omission of experts of spongiform encephalopathies, and the failure of the committee, once appointed, to co-opt them."

59 "What was quite extraordinary about the composition of the [Southwood] committee was the omission of experts of spongiform encephalopathies, and the failure of the committee, once appointed, to co-opt them."

59 "the first confirmation of BSE [was] in late 1986..."

After its 6/20/88 meeting the chairman of the Southwood Committee urgently recommended that 'at least until more is known about BSE, the carcases of affected animals should be destroyed.'

60 "It was not until August 8 1988 that compulsory slaughter and partial compensation was introduced in England, Scotland and Wales, and incredibly not for another four months (November 28 1988) in Northern Ireland."

Government Action:

xx "the British Government [beyond much reasonable doubt] has at all stages concealed facts and corrupted evidence in mad cow disease..."

89 "The drop in price [of British beef due to the BSE scare] would have been greater but for the intervention buying of unwanted carcasses at this price. These were subsequently stored deep frozen at considerable expense for the taxpayer."

154 "It looks suspiciously as if the [British] Government has massaged the figures by back-dating deaths to earlier years."

154 "[The Ministry of Agriculture's] Transferring [of] some 1993 cases to previous years will very conveniently give a false impression of a recent decline in the epidemic."

163 "First [the UK Ministry of Agriculture said] there would be only 17000-20000 cases of BSE in total." Then it would "drop off in 1993. Then the disease would peak in 1991 and disappear in 1994. Then it would peak in 1992. Then...1993. "

176 "From April 1 1994, a new system of compensation to farmers was introduced..."which "would discourage the reporting of BSE suspects."

139 "in February 1992 [the Ministry of Agriculture changed]...the reporting and slaughtering procedures for BSE animals born after the feed ban."

140 "this change in procedure...will distort the number of BSE cases..." "the numbers of animals confirmed, that were born after the feed ban, will inevitably fall."

58 "after publication of their report, Professor Southwood was promoted to Vice Chancellor of Oxford Universoty, Professor Epstein was knighted and Sir John became Lord Walton."

Organ Infectivity:

85 "no action [was] taken over products containing these [11/8/89 banned offal] which were already available in retail outlets"

85 "In late 1989, virtually nothing was known about the distribution of the BSE infection in the animal...as far as the range of organs was involved"

17 "several cases of CJD spread by blood transfusions..."

85 "The range of offals removed is not comprehensive. What do brain, spinal cord, spleen, thymus, tonsils and the intestines of cattle have in common?" "They are of little commercial value."

86 "[scrapie] infectivity was found in the liver, kidney and bones, sometimes at high levels."

86 "The greatest risk could come from bones because the procedures used to concentrate and purify gelatine could also create a potent source of the BSE prion."

88 "the reason why researchers have found BSE infectivity in very few cattle organs...is that the mouse assay test that is used is too insensitive..."

103 "There is little reason to believe that the agents responsible for transmissible spongiform encephalopathies are found actually within or around muscle fibres."

88 "with vertical transmission of BSE confirmed in 1993/1994, the infectivity of blood is implicit, at least as far as cattle are concerned."

Experiments Neglected:

78 Despite the Tyrell committee recommendation, the experiments that "would have established the frequency of animals that were highly infectious, but not yet ill, that went into the food chain." have not been done.

79 "The official justification for not doing this research ["despite numerous requests in the UK Parliament that it be done"] was that it was too expensive... Too expensive to know the scale of risk to the British public?"

159 Also "Human PrP genes could be put into a mouse replacing its own PrP genes and the animal could be challenged with BSE prions."

177 How about "feed[ing] milk from a BSE cow to a calf to see if any infectivity was transferable."

34 "for nutritionally useful protein to be retained after the rendering process there will inevitably be contamination by the BSE agent if present initially."

35 The "nearly 50%" solvent use decrease was due to the occupational hazard posed by the stuff.

35 He is not convinced that "the cessation of solvent extraction was a major factor causing BSE."

38 "it is reasonable to incriminate the rendering plants as one of the means of the dissemination of BSE, but the source of the infection was unknown, and other factors must have been involved in the development of the disease."

57 "I still believe that there is a real possibility that BST could aggrevate BSE ..."

120 On one hand the British government says that"very large doses are needed [using the oral route]", but on the other hand feels that "all BSE came from the feed..."

The Risk:

27 "as many as 30% of BSE infected carcasses [are not incinerated and] end up in landfill sites..."

69 All cattle 'known to be infected...' should be destroyed by law "but what about all those that are infected, but are not known to be because they are slaughtered before their terminal disease develops?" 96 There is a government initiative "to slaughter and destroy all affected cattle..."

Notice that they don't use the word 'infected', which "would also include the countless cases still incubating the infectious agent, but not yet ill."

104 There is no way to detect all such [cattle and cows that carry the infectious agent but appear clinically normal]..."

118 The "...if our worst fears are realised, we could virtually lose a generation of people..." "was based on the well documented instances of almost 100% of all mink on a ranch succumbing from spongiform encephalopathy following eating contaminated feed."

157 "the annual incidence of [CJD]...among [BSE herd] closely associated personnel cannot be calculated as 1 in 20,000 because of the long incubation period."

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157 [(discussing the two BSE herd dairy farmers 1993 CJD deaths in relation to the 40,000 personnel closely associated with BSE herds in 1992)] "if these diseases were acquired in, say, 1983, there might have been as few as 20 BSE herds..."

157 "the development of CJD in two dairy farmers attending BSE herds is therefore highly significant statistically..."

"and deeply disturbing."

180 "many sub-clinically infected cattle ...pass into the British food chain as meat every day."

Vertical Transmission:

78 "in almost every Ministry of Agriculture document from 1990-1994, vertical transmission was claimed to be exceedingly unlikely."

148 CJD "infectivity was [found to be] present in the placenta, in colostrum...and in cells within the umbilical cord" 174 "Over 11,000 BSE cattle have been born after the [contaminated feed] ban."

Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease:

4/95 BUAV Newsletter (not from Lacey book) people who regularly eat veal are 13X more likely to develop CJD than those who do not eat calf meat a reprt from the Department of Health admitted recently 18 "researcher have found an association between eating pork, ham, hot dogs, roast lamb and CJD..."

6 "Pathologists are often unwilling to undertake post mortem examinations of patients considered as having possibly died of CJD..."

8 About 95% of people who develop [CJD]...are aged between 40 and 75..."

164 "I believe a food source provides the only plausible explanation for [15 year old Vicky Rimmer's] disease."

There was no "evidence of an abnormal gene causing the disease" nor any "contaminated hormones, grafts, implants or blood transfusions."

164 A doctor from the Government-established CJD survaillance unit reportedly told Beryl Rimmer, her mother, that "she should not make her daughter's plight public."

and "that she should think of the economy and the Common Market."

viii "The best guess is that 'mad person disease' could emerge an epidemic in Britain around the millenium."

Scrapie:

80 "perhaps ["there is no concrete evidence that scrapie causes CJD"]...mainly because sheep are eaten when young and relatively uninfectious..."

102 "The evidence that BSE is due to sheep scrapie is...virtually nonexistent."

Other Species:

19 "...I suspect [that there exists no risk from]...pigs...[because in part] they are eaten as ham, pork or bacon when the animal is young, typically aged 4-5 months at slaughter."



93 "[Spongiform encephalopathy had] not been reported previously in domestic cats."

93 The name of the first cat to succumb was a siamese named Max. 94 "[By July 1994] 52 other cats had succumbed like Max..."

145 "virtually all mammals tested were vulnerable, so man is likely to be vulnerable."

145 "The reason for the use of injection as the route to infect was because it was believed that the oral route was likely to induce disease only after many years. However, of the four species challenged by the oral route...all succumbed."

145 "The reason for the high infective challenge is to speed up the experiment, to be within the life span of the animal.
Recommendations:

30 "Where a BSE case was confirmed, the entire herd should have been destroyed, and incinerated, with restocking from BSE-free sources on new ground."

95 This would result in the deaths of six million cows.

107 "Careful removal of meat from the carcass[es "of beef cattle...slaughtered as soon as possible - preferably under 18 months of age"] might produce some relatively safe product say for people over 50."

175 The "estimated...cost of replacing the infected herds was 30,000,000,000 [pounds]..."

175 "There is also the problem of needing to house the new herds on fresh territory to prevent reinfection..."

Biographical Information:

MD at Cambridge; PhD at Bristol; Specializing "in both child health and microbiology."

At present he is Professor of clinical microbiology at Leeds University and a consultant to the World Health Organization for Microbiology. Published over 200 papers in scientific and medical journals.

Won the Evian Health Prize for Medicine and the Caroline Walker Prize for Science. In 1986 [he] became an official advisor to the British Government as a member of the Ministry of Agriculture's Veterinary Products Committee.

viii "conservative by nature, and believes that the use of antibiotics on farm animals probably does not amount to a major threat to human health..."
x "not an animal rights activist."

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57 "It was because of BST that I resigned from [the government Veterinary Products Committee]..."
83 As late as 1989 he felt that humans catching BSE was "unlikely."



Michael Greger's favorite quote from the book:
"had he lived, Orwell would have identified the Ministry of Agriculture as the Ministry of Truth and left the title of the Department of Health unchanged."
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

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Gandalf de Grijze wrote:PAGE!!!
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#406 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:39

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:PAGE!!!
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6 May 1996: Interview with Michael Greger
Background: Michael Gregor was one of the first to speak out strongly about the possible presence of mad cow disease in the US cattle populations, the risk of transmissions to humans, and the on-going government and media cover-up.

His influential 1994 Web page asserted that, as a public health risk, bovine-CJD was a "worse threat than AIDS," a seemingly radical view for the time that was nonetheless meticulously documented in his essay. Two years later, Greger's views are widely shared within the biomedical community. However, the media blackout continues as before.

Greger has just released a major update to his original article.

Question 1:

Michael, how was it possible for you as a junior at Cornell to know more about the dangers of BSE and prion disease than full time experts at USDA and CDC ?

Answer 1:

I didn't do anything but bring together work that was already done. It was all there; it was in the literature, it was in the British press weekly and perhaps monthly in the world press. it just wasn't available to the American public. The US officials knew it all they just didn't think it necessary, I gather, to invite public debate on the subject. Look at Marsh's findings. They were like a decade ago. They were just ignored; all I had to do was some digging. This is important because by taking credit (one editor called it the "Greger Theory"; it's not a theory and it certainly isn't mine), it would undervalue the people in this field like >Dr. Richard Lacey who were the real pioneers and truly deserve the recognition.


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Question 2:

As a medical student at Tufts, have you learned anything that would lessen your public health concerns vis-a-vis transmission of BSE to humans in America?

Answer 2:

The first two years of medical school are basic science, most of which I've had in undergrad. If anything, it's just given me a better understanding of some of the underlying pathology, anatomy, biochemistry. I'm going to be speaking at the medical school this Wednesday. I am hopeful that it will stimulate heated debate in the medical and veterinary complex here. The only news of late that would seem to minimize the threat is the as-of-yet-inconclusive transgenic mice experiments.
Question 3:

Over the next 7-10 years, do you see the CJD incidence in the US from all causes staying at the alleged 1 per 1,000,000 per year?

Answer 3:

It was never 1 per million per year and everybody knows it. As I go into in my article CJD is seriously underdiagnosed/underreported. Since we don't even know what the rate is now it would be hard to discern future trends. This NY woman is puzzling/troubling. British cutlets in 1987, symptoms in 1991? Pretty short. The question, though, is do I think there's going to be a rise in incidence. I think it is inevitable *if* indeed BSE is causing CJD and we don't change the way the industry does business (how about first taking the WHO's recommendation of a ruminant to ruminat feed ban). YEs I know the FDA promised one (like it did years ago). But how about an *immediate* ban (not 12-18 months) with some strict enforement. Is it too late already? No one knows. What are the chances anyone is in danger from eating BSE infected tissue? No one knows. And that's the scary part. And the public is not being provided with the information people need to make their own risk assessments while the respective governments keep their fingers crossed.
[The transgenic mouse experiment is one way of testing whether the infectious bovine agent can cross the species barrier into humnas. Because it is medically unethical to experiment on humans with an incurable lethal disease [unless you are a government agency or beef producer!], a strain of mice has been constructed genetically whose prion genes have been replace by the human sequence. After inter-cerebral injection of infected bovine brain tissue, the mice are watched for up to 700 days to see if they acquire the disease. They are at day 300 now. The experiment, in the last analysis, is on mice, not humans. Oxford scientists just published a study based on molecular evolution, concluding that bovines can infect humans. -- webmaster]
The Public Health Implications of Mad Cow Disease
June 1996 by Michael Greger
Peter Hall showed the first signs of depression around Christmas, 1994. In five months he was in a wheelchair. He died at age 20 of Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease, a relentlessly progressive and invariably fatal dementia [95] which usually attacks people in their sixties[33]; cases under 30 are exceedingly rare[112]. Around the next Christmas, an uproar ensued when leading British neuropathologist Sir Bernard Tomlinson refused to feed his children burgers out of fear that they might contract this disease f rom infected beef[102]. His fears were realized on Wednesday, March 20, 1996, when the British government announced that the most likely explanation of Peter's death and 9 other recently diagnosed cases of Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease among English young pe ople [41] was exposure to bovine spongiform encephalopathy(BSE)[71].

'Very unhappy' were the words British vet Colin Whitaker used to describe the dairy [12] cow who became the world's first documented case of BSE on a fine spring morning in 1985[123]. Dubbed Mad Cow Disease by the British press[53], BSE has by now a dec ade later stricken over 150,000 cattle [106]. The fear now is that through the consumption of infected beef Britain may be on the brink of the largest public health calamity since the Black Death[121] with worst case scenario estimates involving the deat hs of millions of people[101].

Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease (CJD) is a human spongiform encephalopathy[70] whose standard clinical picture involves weekly deterioration[67] into blindness and epilepsy[59] while one's brain perforates like swiss-cheese[105]. The World Health Organizatio n recently agreed with the British government's conclusion that there is a new variant of CJD whose appearence is best explained by the BSE epidemic in cows because of a number of consistent unusual features.[136]. Other than being extraordinarily young[ 41], the human victims also had atypical EEGs[96] and took twice as long to die[33]. The real clincher came, though, when their brains were autopsied[108]. Along with unusual psychiatric symptoms[80], the brain pathology was found to be vividly reminisce nt[69] of Kuru, a disease found in a New Guinea tribe of cannibals which ate the brains of their dead[46a]. In the words of Germany's leading expert on CJD "everything suggests that BSE is the cause..."[93].

The probable [107] link between BSE and CJD, viewed by Britain's Chief Medical Officer as "cause for serious concern", came as a complete reversal of the position the government held for a decade[58]. The next day 5 European countries banned the importa tion of British beef[37] and 10,000 British schools dropped beef from their menus[30]. That Friday McDonald's stopped serving British beef[29] and by Monday, Burger King[119] and Wendy's[125] stopped too. And Tuesday, less than a week after the announc ement was made, the European Union decided to quantantine the island, voting an immediate and indefinite worldwide ban on the export of British beef[87]. The same day in one of the biggest operations in decades, Ireland deployed extra police with troop s on standby to seal off its border to prevent cattle smuggling [94]. Finally, two days later, British beef was banned in Britain, but only from cattle considered to be higher at risk[117].

The debatedly [70] novel[3] infectious agents that cause spongiform encephalopathies like CJD and BSE evoke no immune response [50] and consequently may slowly accumulate[14] for an invisible latency period of up to 30 years.[60] No one knows how many people have already been infected. John Pattison, Dean of the University College of London Medical School and Chairman of the British government's Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee (SEAC), thinks there could be 500,000 people already incubatin g CJD[27]. "At this stage," he adds," we have to say it's totally unpredictable."[88] Needless to say, he does not feed beef to his grandson[82]. Microbiologist Steven Dealler, secretary of the Spongiform Encephalopathy Research Campaign, places the po ssible death count at 2 million people[118]. Professor Pattison reportedly agreed with this worst case scenario assessment.[118] This could mean up to a half million deaths a year as the epidemic peaks into the next century according to Richard Lacey[64] , a microbiology consultant for the World Health Organization and child health specialist.[68]

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Called the "most intriguing, unsolved puzzle in modern biology"[141] it is now close to being generally accepted that the cause of both the disease in humans and cows isn't a virus or a bacteria, but a "prion", an infectious protein.[78] Not only is it not known how they replicate[6], the whole concept challenges the basic tenets of biology.[45] Because of their unique makeup, they are practically invulnerable. They are not adequately destroyed by cooking[13], canning[14], nor freezing.[40] Chemicals or enzymes which degrade nucleic acids[55], proteolytic enzymes of the digestive tract[49], and usable doses of UV or ionizing radiation[40] are all ineffective in destroying their infectivity. Even heat sterilization[40], domestic bleach[59a], and formal dehyde[14] sterilization have little or no effect. In fact, the only way to ensure that one's burger is safe is to marinate it in Drain-O (or other concentrated alkali).[59] They are the smallest[9], most lethal self-perpetuating biological entities in th e world.[74] In six years, BSE has gone from the most serious threat ever posed to British agriculture[44] to what the Prime Minister calls the worst crisis to confront the government in general, since the Falklands War.[72] Widespread fear first struck in 1989[19]. Only months after the government concluded that the disease probably wouldn't spread to other species[1], Max, someone's pet Siamese, died of a hitherto unknown feline spongiform encephalopathy[68]. BSE-infected pet food was "overwhelmingly the most li kely explanation."[36] And then zoo animals started dropping dead.[4] Together, this sparked a public uproar[19] with unprecedented media attention.[50] Fearing its spread into the human population, hospitals[34], nursing homes[34], and over 2000 schools[ 21], affecting over 750,000 school children[7], stopped serving beef or restricted its consumption. By May 1990, a quarter of the population reportedly refused to eat beef.[38] In six months beef prices dropped 10[5]-25%[3], devastating the cattle indust ry. The final blow came when Australia[43], Israel[43], and a dozen other countries[24] banned the importation of British beef because of the BSE epidemic.

After a $6.5 million advertising campaign touting red-meat consumption, from Britain's Meat and Livestock Commission[34], though, and the Minister of Agriculture munching burgers with Cordelia[100], his four-year-old daughter for the TV cameras[16], the schools put beef back on the menu[50] and beef consumption regained semi-normal levels.[38] Despite continued warnings from scientists like Lacy, the European community had lifted its ban and most other countries had greatly relaxed their trade restricti ons[7] until news of these first human deaths recently broke.[90]

Now with the worldwide ban in effect, Britain has been forced to agree to kill and incinerate[26] (or perhaps mince and bury)[103] millions of cattle[75] at a total cost of billions of dollars[11]. The decision is supported by the Minister of Agricultur e[119] and the National Farmer's Union[119], while admitting the mass slaughter would be 'too horrific to contemplate.'[120] In response to the proposed slaughter, an Hindi group in India offered the afflicted cows sanctuary while a Cambodian newspaper s uggested that the cows be used to detonate the country's buried landmines.[145]. The extermination may not have eliminate the epidemic, though, as evidence exists that prions can remain infectious for years in the soil[61] and/or may be harbored by insec ts.[76] A better solution would seem to be to finding out which cows were actually infected instead of just indiscriminate killing. Such a test for detecting BSE in live cattle was offered to the British government seven years ago by Harash Narang, a cl inical virologist with the public health service[85]. Dr. Narang was subsequently fired, and reportedly had his tires slashed five times, his home broken into, and his brakes tampered with[126]. Critics presume the government did not want the public to know how much infected beef was entering the food chain[126] and therefore discouraged such tests to protect the $4.6 billion beef industry[85] In fact Dr. Lacey claims that the British government has at all stages concealed facts and corrupted evidence beyond much reasonable doubt[68].

The Labor Party charged the government with a "reckless disregard for public health"[119], "seriously complacent decisions"[121] historically and a "pathetic"[90] response to the current crisis. Others echoed similar charges of procrastination and delay [85]. A New Scientist editorial explained how the British government "tried to push scientific advice aside when it did not suit them."[106] An editorial in The Lancet criticized the government for making the error of equating the absence of evidence of risk with evidence of little or no risk.[82] Statements like "There's no way of predicting..." seemed to transform in the halls of government into "There is no evidence..."[107]. British agriculture minister Angela Browning's January pronouncement that her government's stance was "ultra precautionary" [115] bears a certain resemblance to similar statements now coming from the United States government.[116] Six months ago Britain's Prime Minister was still asserting that there was absolutely no co nnection between BSE and CJD[115] and still attempts to reassure the public that beef is safe to eat to this day[82]. Likewise the USDA continues to adamantly parrot day after day that there is no BSE in the USA[130].

The United States has the highest per capita beef consumption in the world.[65] and 100,000,000 cattle[8] Traditional bovine spongiform encephalopathy hit North America in 1993.[15] The first cow discovered to be infected, one of many imported from the UK before both Canada and the US banned the importation of British cattle, was found on a ranch in Alberta, Canada.[8] Of the 499[116] British cattle imported into the US before the 1989 ban, 188 of them have been melted down into lard and protein[8] (pre sumably for other livestock to eat) and 35 remain unaccounted for.[116] One of the imported bulls slaughtered had a "central nervous system abnormality" of which the USDA reported, "There is no definitive evidence that [the bull] either had or did not hav e BSE."[8] Although the importation of British beef has been banned from the US for a decade due to an unrelated disease[7], over 13 tons of meat and bone meal, which has been implicated in the birth of the British epidemic, has come into the US from Engl and between 1982 and 1989.[2]


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"BSE was 'almost certainly'[10] caused by feeding cattle ground up, dead, diseased sheep"[18] infected with an ovine spongiform encephalopathy known as scrapie.[20] In modern agribusiness, cows are no longer herbivores. "Protein concentrates" (or meat an d bone meal, both euphemisms for mashed- up bits of other animals left over from the slaughterhouse) are fed to dairy cows[22] to improve milk production,[65] for example. The real problem now, though, is not that we've made cows meat eaters but that we'v e turned them into cannibals as well; the recycling of the remains of infected cows into cattle feed[60] has probably led to the epidemic's explosive spread.[42] An editorial in the British Medical Journal described BSE as resulting "from an accidental e xperiment on the dietary transmissibility of prion disease between sheep and cows."[57] A subsequent experiment of this kind, with humans, probably occurred in England in the late 1980's when meat contaminated with BSE entered the food chain.[57] The res ult of this experiment is awaited "as we live through the incubation period" over the next decades.[57]

Indigenous conditions here conducive to a BSE outbreak include the presence of scrapie in 39 states.[54] The 40-year[52] USDA Scrapie Eradication Program has been deemed a "dismal failure"[63] and even implicated in the recent rise of scrapie-infected sh eep.[54] Admitting defeat, the USDA scrapped the Scrapie Eradication Program 2 years ago and replaced it with an "entirely voluntary" control program.[21] The proportion of sheep to cattle in the US is dramatically smaller than in the British Isles though , which helps minimize the risk of an outbreak.[65] This is a moot point, however, if BSE is already here. Since 1947 there have been 25 outbreaks of Mink Spongiform Encephalopathy (also called TME) on US fur farms.[22] This perplexed researchers who were unable to orally infect mink with scrapie-infected sheep brains.[49] A clue came in 1985 when TME wiped o ut a population of minks in Wisconsin who hadn't eaten any sheep.[35] Their diet consisted almost exclusively of dairy cattle called "downers,"[54] an industry term describing a syndrome in which cows mysteriously drop down and are too sick to get up.

The possibility, then, that US dairy herds were harboring some form of BSE intrigued University of Wisconsin veterinary scientist Richard Marsh.[65] To test this, Marsh inoculated US cattle with the infected mink brains.[49] As predicted, they died.[49] And when he fed the brains of these cows to healthy mink they too died of a spongiform encephalopathy[54] providing what he thought was the missing link.[66] Marsh hypothesized that the proposed BSE strain indigenous to the US manifests itself as more of a do wned cow disease than a mad cow disease.[49] With about 300,000 cows going down for unexplainable reasons every year in the US[65], this has frightening implications on a grand scale. The downer cow is then melted down in a process called rendering into feed and her bones are boiled[128] (along with her skin and cartilage)[77] to make gelatin, a main ingredient in Jell-O and marshmallows. The critical experiment came when Marsh inoculated scrapie infected sheep brain into US cattle.[63] If you do this i n England the cows go mad, twitching[16] and kicking into a rabid frenzy.[12] But in America, cows instead stagger to their deaths like downer cows do[65], supporting the belief that a form of BSE is already here in the United States.

By 1990 the USDA had 60 labs monitoring US cattle herds for BSE.[7] In 1991 APHIS, the governmental agency which ensures the health of the nation's livestock, concluded that the "possibility of BSE appearing in US cattle is extremely low."[21] The assump tion made by APHIS and others[2], however, was that "scrapie infected sheep were the only source of the BSE agent."[21] This is certainly questionable in light of the evidence for an indigenous BSE agent. Likewise, the USDA surveillance program (described as slow, clumsy, and ineffective)[66] began looking for the rabies-like symptoms of the traditional British strain of BSE[52], in effect ignoring Marsh's findings.[21] In June 1992 a USDA consultant group continued to disregard the available evidence, de ciding that changes in the research program to accommodate the possibility that BSE was already present in the US were "not appropriate at this time."[21] No surprise really, when one realizes that this panel included representatives of the National Milk Producers Federation, the National Renderers Association, The American Sheep industry Association and the National Cattleman's Association.[21] According to a newspaper report, though, in 1993 the USDA finally backed down and started testing downer cows[6 5].

In all, 2,660 brains from 43 states have been examined by APHIS[116] with plans to increase the number[92]. They report that no evidence for BSE has been found[116]. Unfortunately they were evidently relying on standard techniques used by British offic ials[129]. As reported in the April 1994 issue of the Journal of Infectious Diseases not only does the suspected American version of BSE differ in outward appearance, the affected brain also looks different than the British variety. Reportedly only a sm all percentage of the few thousand brains are therefore even being properly tested.[131] Even, however, if the more sensitive techniques were utilized in all the cases, Marsh feels that this number would be insufficient to impart a sense of security[129] . There is also suspicion that the USDA might try to cover up any suspected cases in an attempt to protect the $36 billion[129] beef industry from collapse.[47]

In Germany, for example, scientists have admitted that there have been many cases of BSE that were not reported[124]. When the monetary compensation given to the British farmer whose infected cows were incinerated by the government rose from 50% of mark et value to full compensation, the number of reported cases shot up 73%.[59] Presumably, the earlier economic disincentive persuaded farmers to overlook a few mad cows. In general in fact British BSE cases have been severely underreported with as few as 60% of clinical cases reaching UK government statistics. It was reported in the Sunday Telegraph that "British officials believe that some European countries concealed or ignored evidence of 'mad cow disease' for fear of the consequences for their own farming industries."[124] The problem, as many English pundits saw it, is that the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries, and Food represents the interests of both consumers and the beef industry.[78] A similar conflict of interest exists in the United States.

The mandate of the USDA is to promote agricultural products but also to protect consumer health. In Britain, at least, it would seem that the government's attempt at protecting the beef industry by concentrating more on PR crisis management than on d oing anything substantial ended up not only hurting the industry, but consumers, farmers, and the government as well.[98] With scientists like Marsh saying "The exact same thing could happen over here as happened in Britain,"[35] and with beef consumption already at a thirty-year low,[34] the USDA is justifiably worried. There was even a complaint filed with the FDA concern ing a woman with CJD who had been taking a dietary supplement containing bovine tissue.[4] Like England, we have been feeding dead cows to living cows for decades.[7] In fact, here in the US a minimum of 14% of the remains of rendered cattle is fed to oth er cows[49] (another 50% goes on the pig and chicken menu).[2] In 1989 alone almost 800 million pounds of processed animals were fed to beef and dairy cattle.[115] Partly because of this, the USDA has conceded that "the potential risk of amplification of the BSE agent is much greater in the United States" than in Britain.[8]

To make things worse, there has been a dramatic increase in the use of animal protein in commercial dairy feed since 1987.[35,49] The recent introduction of bovine growth hormone will only increase the need for rendered animal proteins in the rations of dairy cattle--of whom we eat 2.6 billion pounds of annually[8]. According to top encephalopathy expert Joseph Gibbs, one out of every million cattle naturally develops BSE.[65] A single teaspoon of ingested high infectivity meat and bone meal is thought to be enough to cause BSE in a cow[80]. Between this and eviden ce that prions may be able to adapt to their hosts and become more virulent with time[22], it would seem absolutely necessary to enact the ban and stop recycling this disease through US cattle. In June 1993 the Foundation on Economic Trends, a Washington public interest group[191], petitioned the FDA to ban all feeding of ruminants (cows, sheep) to other ruminants as the European Commonwealth had done three years before[23]. The legal petition was largely ignored[115]. The next year the FDA did propose to at least stop feeding sheep offal to cows, but it was blocked by vehement protests from the rendering and livestock industries[83]. A week after the Britain's recent admission that people m ay be dying from eating burgers, another public interest group, the International Center for Technology Assessment, filed a similar legal petition[115]. Leading consumer group Public Voice for Food and Health Policy has since also called for a ban[[135].

Three days after the latest petition was filed the meat industry announced a "voluntary" ban on feeding cows to cows[115]. In Britain they tried a similar voluntary ban; it failed miserably[115]. In the US the same rendering industry promised to stop feeding sheep brains to cows years ago; the FDA confirmed that this failed also[84]. On April 3, 1996 the World Health Organization called for a worldwide ban on feeding animal tissues to livestock[134] The FDA has promised to "expedite" such regulation s.[132] This is expected to mean that putting a formal ban in place will take 12 to 18 months[132]. Even with the law in Britain, though, surprise random inspections last year showed half of the English slaughterhouses in violation of the cow to cow ban regulations[91], but it is better than no law at all[105].

US officials admit that it is "very difficult" to verify compliance with the current voluntary ban[32]. In fact weeks after the "voluntary" ban was announced by the industry the feeding of rumi nant protein was still continuing at rates of million of pounds a day[115], supporting the director[104] of the Center for Media and Democracy John Stauber's contention that the oxymoronic voluntary ban was just a "worthless PR sham".[132]


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A spokesperson for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA), admitted 3 years ago that his industry could indeed find economically feasible alternatives to feeding rendered animal protein, but that the NCBA did not want to set a precedent of be ing ruled by "activists"[Food Chemical News, July 5, 1993]. Another NCBA spokesperson, Gary Weber, appeared on the Oprah Winfrey Show this April[131]. Clearly alarmed and disturbed by the fact that cows in the US are forced to eat cattle remains, Oprah swore she would never eat another burger again[131]. Our government knew that the such feeding practices would be "vulnerable to media scrutiny" as portrayed in an internal PR crisis management document.[115] After Oprah tried to remind the audience tha t cows were supposed to be herbivores, Dr. Weber defended the practice by stating "Now keep in mind, before you--you view the ruminant animal, the cow, as simply a vegetarian--remember that they drink milk."[131]

Cattle prices plummeted after the show aired.[97] The president of the National Cattlemen's beef Association called Oprah "a cheerleader for...anti-beef propaganda."[203] "We're not going to sit back and let trash TV trash a vital industry..." said the Texas Agriculture Commissioner in a prepared statement.[97] Texas agriculture officials are planning to bring a lawsuit against the opposing guest on the show, Howard Lyman, a cattle rancher turned vegetarian under a 1995 state law that prohibits unfoun ded comments about perishable food items[97]. These are among the same Texas officials that responded to the tragic news of the human deaths in Britain by staging a mocking April 4 publicity stunt cook-out.[115] On the show was Beryl Rimmer, whose 16 yea r old granddaughter lay in a coma, blind and dying, one of the ten diagnosed with the new variant of CJD[131]. A doctor from the government's CJD surveillance unit reportedly told her not to make her granddaughter's plight public; she should "think of the economy and the Common Market."[68]

In the same show Weber asserted that no animal could ever enter a US packing plant displaying BSE symptoms[131]. Even if this is true, the majority of infected and infectious cattle become beef before clinical symptoms arise.[58] In fact, for every "mad " cow incinerated in the UK, there may be hundreds slaughtered and sold to butchers before any overt symptoms develop.[51] Narang estimates that a third of all English cattle going into the food chain are infected with BSE.[133] Because of this, it is estimated that every adult in the UK has eaten on average 50 meals containing tissue from infected cattle[126]. In the Journal of Public Health Medicine, Dealler, the microbiologist, wrote that in all probability most humans who have consumed British bee f since the start of the BSE epidemic will have been exposed to the infection.[58] In America it may be even harder to stop infected cattle from entering the food supply since it has been argued that dairy cattle are routinely culled earlier than in Britain.[135]

Within a week the National Cattlemen's Beef Association prepared a position statement which stated that "Scientific evidence indicates that beef (meat) and milk do not present a risk as there is no evidence that the agent that causes BSE is present in me at and milk"[114] First of all, even the USDA has stated that "the safety of British beef cannot be demonstrated for 20 or more years."[21] As retired professor of clinical neurology WB Matthews put it, "Claims that British beef is entirely safe to eat.. .are scarcely scientific when the question has not been tested and is, perhaps, untestable."[28] The NCBA is probably attempting to refer to a study based solely on mice in which no detectable infectivity was found in muscle, but beef is not just muscle; it's laced with peripheral nerves and lymphoid tissue[39] which have both been shown to be infectious.[39]

And it is possible that muscles do in fact harbor sufficiently deadly numbers of prions; spongiform encephalopathies of goats, minks, and hamsters can be transmitted through muscle alone.[55] No tissue, though, concentrates the pathogens more than brain or spinal cord.[46] In the slaughterhouse, beef is recovered by mechanically sawing down the corpse, which may imbed brains (which at this stage h ave the consistency of pudding)[59] throughout the meat.[55] In addition, the prions are thought by some to continuously accumulate in one's system, so that even small doses could build up with time.[14] Milk, however, is safe according to the World Heal th Organization[62]. So although BSE is more prevalent in dairy cows, the potential danger is probably in their quick retirement into hamburger, not their milk[48].

There is a cluster of CJD in eastern Pennsylvania, however, which was linked to cheese consumption and there is a case description published in the New England Journal of Medicine demonstrating that milk from a Creutzfeldt-Jacob diseased woman was indeed infectious[25].

Just because someone consumes an infectious dose of BSE, though, does not mean that they will necessarily get the disease. There is still no direct proof that BSE can even cause CJD in humans.[112] The recent deaths in Britain may turn out to be unrela ted to beef consumption. One experiment which is currently underway is to do further studies of the autopsied brains called strain typing which could provide strong empirical evidence of a BSE-CJD link[86] Results will not be forthcoming for at least 18 months, though, and may not even then provide definitive answers[112]. The preliminary results from another study involving mice genetically engineered to express human proteins seem to minimize the risk to humans, but are not yet conclusive[102]. Simi larly it will be a year and a half before firm conclusions can be drawn[112].

BSE has been able to infect and (therefore) kill cats, antelopes, and even ostriches from presumably eating infected protein, though.[1] Eighty cats have now since followed Max to the grave[101]. Experimentally, one can give BSE to monkeys[56], pigs, ch impanzees [8] and thirteen other species[58]. There really is no reason to believe that BSE will not similarly infect humans.[8] So far, in fact, BSE has proven more infectious than most other transmissible spongiform encephalopathies.[39] The latest dat a has come from the comparing of the cow and human prion proteins. Two striking similarities were found between gorillas, chimpanzees, humans and cows which might have "predisposed" higher primates to cattle prion infections[97], a finding that "can onl y be interpreted as worrying."[102]. This could explain why people could develop CJD from eating meat[97]. So what are the odds that humans are susceptible? No one knows. When Dealler was recently asked by a member of the British Parliament what the c hances of any particular person contracting CJD from BSE-infected meat were he replied "Between zero and 100 percent."

Incidentally, cows aren't the only possible source of prion disease. Paul Brown, medical director of the NIH neurological disorders institute with the US Public Health Service[17], believes that pigs and poultry could be harboring BSE and passing it on to humans, adding that pigs are especially sensitive to the disease.[103] "It's speculation", he says, "but I am perfectly serious."[103] On March 20, the British government banned farmers from feeding processed cattle blood, bones, fat, and offal to pigs and poultry.[31] A week and a half later they even halted the use on meat and bone meal as agricultural fertilizer[113] and we in the United States can't even get them to stop feeding cows to other cows.

If indeed a form of BSE is in the United States and causing disease among American meat eaters, one would expect to see an increase in Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease incidence. CJD, however, is not a reportable illness in this country[131]. Because the Cen ters for Disease Control (CDC) does not actively monitor the disease [32] a rise similar to the one in Britain could be missed[32]. Other than the cheese-associated five-fold expected rate in the Lehigh Valley[139], a striking increase in CJD was reporte d in Florida[143], and there is anecdotal report of an cluster in Oregon[144]. An analysis of death certificates in a number of states, though, showed a stable and typical CJD incidence rate from 1979 to 1993[81]. Just recently the CDC initiated an ext ensive study of death certificates in four states[138]. Death-certificate diagnoses are well known to be not always accurate, though.[140]

CJD is seriously underdiagnosed at present[70]. The most common misdiagnosis of CJD is Alzheimer's disease[70]. Both diseases show overlapping symptoms and pathology[70]. There can be spongy changes in Alzheimer's and amyloid plaques in CJD.[70] In f act the brains of the young people who died from the new CJD variant in Britain look like Alzheimer's brains[83]. Stanley Prusinger, the scientist who coined the term prion, believes Alzheimer's may even turn out to be a prion disease[115].The true prev alence of prion diseases in this or any other country remains a mystery[70]. An informal survey of neuropathologists registered a theoretical range of 2-12% of all dementias as actually CJD[70] whereas the official rate in this country is less than 1 cas e in a million per year. Compounding the situation, autopsies are rarely even performed on atypical dementias[70], because medical professionals are often unwilling out of fear of infection[68].

Four million Americans are affected by Alzheimer's[115]; it is the fourth leading cause of death among the elderly in the US.[142] Epidemiological evidence suggests that people eating meat more than four times a week for a prolonged period have a 3 time s higher chance of suffering a dementia than long-time vegetarians[79]. A preliminary 1989 study at the University of Pennsylvania showed that over 5% of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's were actually dying from a human spongiform encephalopathy.[21] That means that as many as 200,000 people in the United States[21] may already be dying from mad cow disease each year.

In an examination of the risk of a major CJD epidemic in Britain, one of the government advisors wrote "I can't imagine it will just stop at ten cases..." It seems he was right. By the end of March the number was revised to an unconfirmed 12[27] Then came two women in their 30's dying in Germany[48]. A 26-year old man just died in France[109]; French authorities concluded it was "exactly identical" to the ten in Britain after consulting with health officials there[114]. The latest suspected victim i s a 24 year old woman in New York who may have contracted the disease years after receiving a Christmas gift of British beef cutlets[137]. And by the end of April another English girl was diagnosed with CJD[110]. At age 15 she is thought to be the world 's youngest victim of the disease[113].

After the diagnosis of BSE pattern CJD was confirmed, leading neurologist Peter Behan made the controversial announcement that she "picked it up through hamburgers."[113] Assuming a ten year incubation period, all of the young people dying of this disease in Britain over the last few months were presumably infected when there were but only a few hundred infected cows being turned into beef. In the year 1990 alone, it is estimated that 250,000 BSE-infected cows we re eaten, which of course begs the question how many people might be dying at the turn of the century[111].

In the United States we are left with an industry that continues to risk public safety and a government protecting that industry's interests over those of the consumer. A clue as to why the government has been so stubborn in enacting a ban on feeding co w and sheep remains to cows and sheep can be found in a 1991 internal USDA document entitled "BSE: Rendering policy" retrieved through the Freedom of Information Act.[21] It weighed the costs and benefits of a number of preventative measures including a t otal ban on feeding ruminants to ruminants.[21] The supporters of this option felt that this minimized the risk to public health.[21]

APHIS, however, goes on to explain that the "disadvantage" of this approach is "that the cost to the livestock and rendering industries would be substantial"[115] The lost revenue to cattle producers of such a ban is estimated at a dollar per cow[89]. The document continues, asserting that such a policy "could pose major problems for the US livestock and rendering indust ries."[21] After all, the rendering, feed, and cattle industries do rack up annual sales of only $1.2 billion, $20 billion, and $60 billion, respectively.[8] The Archbishop of York recently blamed the BSE epidemic on greed and profit.[127]. Other than simply corporate profiteering, I think this crisis shows to what length governments will go to prevent financial harm to powerful lobbies in general, and in doing so risk immeasurable harm to those they claim to represent.

May 5, 1996 Please feel free to use and/or distribute in any way -- Michael Greger
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89. Reuters wire (3/29/96) US will ban...
90. Reuters wire (3/28/96) Britain temporarily bans...
91. New York Times, The Logic of the 'Mad Cow' Scare by John Darnton
92. AP wire (3/26/96) US inspectors to...
93. Reuters wire 3/26/96) German scientists suggest...
94. Reuters wire (3/26/96) Ireland guards border...
95. Oxford Textbook of Medicine (1996) 3:3981
96. British Journal of Medicine (3/30/96) BSE linked to...
97. Reuter wire (4/24/96) New link found...
98. British Journal of Medicine (3/30/96) Meltdown: media and...
99. Living Marxism (2/96) 87
100. Wall Street Journal (3/21/96) British suppressed beef...
101. Economist (3/30/96) Mad cows and...
102. http://www.nature.com, Nature science update (5/3/96) Genetic link between...
103. New Scientist 4/6/96:3-5
104. Toxic Sludge Is Good for You, by John Stauber, Sheldon Rampton (1995)
105. NIH expert CJ Gibbs speaking at Cornell University 12/1/94
106. New Scientist 3/30/96:3
107. New Scientist 3/30/96:4
108. New Scientist 3/30/96:6
109. PA wire 4/26/96 French CJD death...
110. PA wire 4/26/96 Girl, 15, got...
111. PA News wire 4/27/96 Expert warns of...
112. Lancet (1996) 347:945-48
113. Reuters World Report wire 4/27/96 British scientist warns...
114. London Times 4/15/96 Frenchman, 17, dies...
115. PR Watch (1996) 3(1):1-8
116. USDA APHIS (4/2/96) BSE Factsheet
117. Financial Times 3/29/96:16
118. London Times 4/18/96 BSE deaths 'could...
119. Financial Times 3/26/96:1
120. Financial Times 3/25/96:1
121. Financial Times 3/23/96:6
122. Independent 4/13/96 Slaughtered cattle to...
123. Sunday Telegraph 3/31/96:12
124. Sunday Telegraph 3/31/96:12
125. Guardian 3/26/96:1
126. Guardian 3/23/96:23
127. Sunday Times 4/7/96 Fear grows as...
128. Herald (Rock Hill, SC) 3/28/96:1A
129. New York Times 3/27/96:12A
130, Newsday3/27/96
131. Oprah Winfrey Show transcript 4/16/96:1-9
132. New York Times (3/20/96) Safeguards against mad-cow...
133. Guardian 4/1/96 Brain disease predated...
134. New York Times (4/4/96) U.N.'s WHO seeks...
135. Reuters North America wire (4/30/96) Conditions ripe for...
136. The Lancet (4/13/96) 347:1036
137. Watertown Daily Times 4/29/96:6
138. New Scientist (4/20/96):10
139. Neurology (4/93) 43:A316, Abstract 614P
140. Neurology (4/93) 43:A316, Abstract 615P
141. California Institue of Technology professor of biology Dr. Hood
142. American Journal of Medical Genetics (1995) 60:12-18
143. Neurology (4/94) 4a(Suppl 2):A260, Abstract 537S
144. (4/16/96) Margie Boule, columnist...
145. New Yorker (4/15/96):102
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#407 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:43

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Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)

America's answer to mad cow disease
Last update: 25 Apr 99. Contact webmaster by email or fax (541-484-0669) to provide additional information or corrections
Sources:
1: Wildlife Disease Committee Report 8 Oct 98 VF Nettles 706-542-1741 Minneapolis meeting
2: Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks memo of 29 Sept 98. Pat Graham to Gov Racicot
3: Montana Briefing paper 9 Sept 98 attached to memo
4: Montana Department of Livestock summary of CWD 9 Sep 98
5: Colorado Big Game Regulations 1998 pg 11
6: Madison Wisconsin Wildlife Disease Conference 1998
7: Wisconsin Outdoor News 11 Sept 98 Dean Bortz
8: SCWDS Briefs 1997-1999 newsletters
9: Medline scientific literature
10:Earlier full-text reports on this site
11.North American Elk Breeders Association (NAEBA)


Definitions:


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Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD): a spongiform encephalopathy (prion disease) in deer or elk that is closely related to mad cow disease, scrapie in sheep, and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in humans. CWD has been reported in mule deer, black-tailed deer, white-tailed deer, Rocky Mountain elk, and possibly one pronghorn antelope [9, 4]. CWD transmits efficiently to mink and then to hamster experimentally [6, 9]. Tens of thousands of hunters in the Ft. Collins area have eaten tainted game from game procesing facility pools [10]; efficiency of transmission to humans is unknown. The incubation period for kuru is 40 years (dated from cessation of exposure) and counting [9].

Origins of CWD: The first case of CWD was seen in 1967 in a captive mule deer at the Foothills Wildlife Research Station (operated by the Colorado Dept. of Wildlife) in Ft. Collins and was attributed then by station employees [10] to close confinement of deer to former (scrapie) sheep pasture or to horizontal transmission from sheep allowed [9] into the pens. The shortest known incubation time in deer is 17 months, dating the exposure back to 1965-66 or earlier. Surplus does were released back into the wild after fawning in the facility; the first case in free-ranging wild deer was seen in 1981. Other infected animals were shipped to zoos (Denver, Toronto, Laramie), game farms (see below), and similar research facilities in Colorado and Wyoming.

Alternate theories of CWD origin: These posit a naturally occurring prion genetic disease; possible but not supported by recent genotyping studies by O'Rourke [1]) or transmission at winter feeding stations via rendered downer cow protein (ie, a non-UK strain of bovine spongiform encephalopathy) or CWD deer or elk recycled as rendered road kill. CWD deer are commonly observed at a feeding station on Lexington Lane in Estes Park, Colorado [10].

Trace-back: A game farm, zoo, or research facility that sold an elk or deer to a second facility where CWD was later positively diagnosed for the first time. The trace-back farm is presumed to be contaminated even if it has never reported CWD. Examples: Colorado has numerous trace-back game farms among the 11 in the Ft. Collins disease epicenter; improbably, none of these have ever reported CWD. Ear tags had been discarded in the Oklahoma CWD elk case, causing uncertainty in trace-back (limited to Montana, Idaho, or Utah).

Trace-forward: A game farm, zoo, or research facility that bought an elk or deer from a contaminated facility (possibly in another state) where CWD was later positively diagnosed. Sometimes broadened to include animals imported from a state or region known to have CWD because under-reporting is rampant [the economic impacts are devastating]. Animals at the trace-forward facility must be closely monitored and not be allowed to furnish animals to still other game farms. Examples: Vermont has trace-forward elk from Colorado but does not require autopsy of adult elk deaths as recommended [1]. Trace-forward could not be conducted [1] on Nebraska elk sold at auction in Missouri and Colorado because records are not kept.

Exposed herds consist of trace-back plus trace-forward herds.

Ingress or egress: Deer and elk can escape or be released from game farm facilities and introduce the disease into wild cervids of that state. Alternately, deer or elk attracted to plentiful feed or captive members of their own species and enter the large fenced pastures, sometimes fawning there and contracting disease. [1,4, 9] Typical initiating events are a tree falling on a fenceline during a storm or erosion at a stream or gully crossing. Fenceline contact of wild animals with captive animals (possibly nose rubbing, urine, faeces,or hay mites) in facilities that are not double-fenced may also suffice to transmit CWD [1,9]. Example: wild deer on the same premises as a captive elk herd acquired CWD in South Dakota (see A, B).

Conflict of interest: A state fish and game department that derives most or all of its salary and program revenue from the sale of game tags jeopardizes this revenue by disclosure of CWD or by safety warnings to hunters. This revenue model is applicable to all 11 western states. Also includes departments of agriculture for different reasons. Conflicts of interest can affect the design of monitoring programs, choice of sampling techniques and pathology method, disclosure of results, and non-adherence to the precautionary principle. Diagnosis: public relation releases from the agency equate absence of evidence to evidence of absence. Example: Colorado fish and game officials held a news conference in 1998 stating they would continue to enjoy eating venison from untested deer and elk from epidemic strongholds because it had not been proven to transmit to human [10], a vacuous reassurance as no study has ever been conducted.

Nebraska Fish & Game Recommendations

If the animal is still struggling, kill it with a shot in the neck just under the ear.. .enough blood vessels will often be severed to bleed the deer or bleed kill by sticking... Admittedly, the field dressing chore is not the most enjoyable part of the hunt.... your heavy hunting coat should be removed and your sleeves rolled up so they won't be soiled. Blood and digestive juices must be removed from the body cavity quickly... Disposable vinyl or latex gloves lessen the chances of passing infectious diseases and make hand cleaning easier

Make a cut along the centerline of belly from breastbone to base of tail...Unless the head will be mounted, the cut should pass through the sternum and extend up the neck to the chin to allow removal of as much of the windpipe as possible. The windpipe sours rapidly and is a leading cause of tainted meat.


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With a small sharp knife, cut around the anus and draw it into the body cavity... Loosen and roll out the stomach and intestines. Save liver. Split the pelvic bone to hasten cooling.... center of the backbone, dividing it into two sides. If the neck is to be used for a pot roast, it should be removed before the carcass is split. Trim excess bone and gristle and further cut meat into family-size packages.


Diagnosis of CWD: The most desirable area of brain to collect is medulla. Colorado requires [5] hunters to turn in the head within 5 days, warm storage allowed; this would cause under-reporting of CWD using all methods. Many states only began sample collecting in 1998.

-- Histopathology: method requires brain fixed in formalin soon after death. Material from an animal dead more than 48 hours or frozen material is of little value. Slides are stained with dyes and examined under a light microscope. This method by itself misses many cases; it allows a state to announce a survey but have low or zero levels of CWD to report.

-- Immunohistochemistry (IHC): formalin-fixed material preferred, works on animals dead for longer time and frozen brain. Prion antibody stains cells around vacuoles seen with hematolyins and eosin staining. Amyloid plaque is most obvious in white-tailed deer, present but less conspicuous in mule deer, not usable diagnositically in elk. Parasympathetic vagal nucleus is first site of prion deposition in sub-clinical animals.[1].

-- Western blot: can only be done on brain not fixed in formalin but is still applicable to brains that have undergone substantial decomposition or freezing. Prion protein resistant to protease K is stained on a molecular weight gel with prion antibody. The bes

-- Capillary gel electrophoresis: a very sensitive new method for detecting tiny amounts of rogue prion protein, tests on elk and deer now underway at ARS, Ames, Iowa to measure degree of contamination of blood.

-- In vitro conversion: the efficiency of CWD prion at converting normal prion of other species to rogue prion of that species. This test showed BSE and scrapie equally capable of converting normal human prion to the form associated with disease [9]. Results with CWD and human prion are expected to be published shortly.

-- Strain-typing: Different strains of CWD may exist. These involve different degrees of glycosylation, different fragments of the full prion protein, and varying 3-dimensional conformations. Strain properties are generally maintained fairly well during passage to a new species, possibly allowing a dietary source of human infection to be identified. CWD strains expected to pass easily to sheep and cattle because the prion gene sequences are very similar; deer and elk commonly share pastures with cow and sheep. Strain-typing results with CWD in experimental animals are expected shortly.

-- Diagnostic video available: The Wyoming Game and Fish Department, in cooperation with the University of Wyoming, the Colorado Division of Wildlife, and the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, through the Western Wildlife Health Cooperative of the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, has produced a video on chronic wasting disease.�


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"This video informs viewers about CWD, describes and demonstrates the appearance of animals with this disease, and explains how to collect appropriate samples for diagnosis.� The intended audience is wildlife biologists and veterinarians; video footage includes images (brains and blood) that may be too graphic for some public audiences.� The program is 13 minutes long.� The cost is $10 a copy, plus $4 shipping and handling charge (the $4 charge does not increase when multiple copies are ordered).� The video may be ordered from:� Wyoming Game and Fish Department, Attention:� AE, 5400 Bishop Boulevard, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82006 (telephone 307-777-4570)"

[The video is excellent. Pape and Miller focus as usual on game tag sales: business as usual until people start dying. The most questionable sequence has Dr. Williams minimizing problems with transmission to livestock. In fact, she published a report in 1992 stating CWD has been transmitted to goats (very similar to sheep) by intra-cerebral injection with an incubation time of 6 years. 13 years have gone by without the experiment ever being written up. Williams has not responded to queries for clarification.
Williams ES, et al. �������
Spongiform encephalopathies in Cervidae.
Rev Sci Tech. 1992 Jun;11(2):551-67. Review.
Successful transmission to squirrel monkey [new world monkey, RF Marsh, U Wisc. pers. comm to Beth Williams] is in the published record too -- this is worrisome because people are primates too. The key point is that Wyoming published this in 1992 paper, yet:

-- "Wyoming has yet to issue health recommendations for deer and elk hunters, but 'the risk is so small, I wouldn't worry about it all,' says Tom Thorne of Wyoming Game and Fish, who adds that he regularly hunts and eats deer from southeastern Wyoming." [High Country News article by Chris Carrel 16 March 1998]

-- "The meat itself does not appear to be infectious in any situations," said John Pape, Coloado Dept. of hHealth epidemiologist..... "Since there are unknowns in our research, we will err on the side of caution and recommend that [simple common sense] measures be taken." [Denver Post 14 Feb 98]

-- Both Wyoming and Colorado have historically reported scrapie in sheep. Colorado reported scrapie in 1966 and Wyoming twice (1959 and earlier) [Hourrigan, J et al 1979 Epidemiology of scrapie the the US. Vol 1 of Slow transmissible diseases of the nervous systerm. Academic Press NY pg331-356.-- webmaster]



State-by-State update on Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)
25 Jan 99 webmaster: based on published sources listed above
Colorado:
-- All known cases of CWD ultimately trace back to the Foothills Research Facility in Ft. Collins, Colorado [10]
-- eastern Larimer Coounty and S. Platte River corridor have most free-ranging CWD deer [1]
-- 2,500 deer and elk from NE Colorado, incidence of CWD steady at 5-7% in deer, 1% in elk by IHC 1995-97.[1]
-- 350 deer and elk from other areas in Colorado tested negative by IHC 1995-97 [1]
-- 85 CWD-positive cervids have been identified in the endemic area of Colorado and Wyoming 1981-1997
-- 0.4% in 487 elk tested from 1992-1996; 2.9% in 687 mule eer examined from 1983-1996.
-- More than 400 samples from cervids outside the endemic area of Colorado and Wyoming have been negative.�

Wyoming: [based in part on mid 1998 brochure by Chris Madson sent 1 Feb 99,
-- infected Fish and Game research facility in Laramie; 3 failed decontamination efforts
-- CWD found in wild elk and deer
-- Swapped animals with Ft. Collins facility for many years.
-- "between 1974 and 1979, 66 mule deer and 1 black-tail were held in captive in Colorado and Wyoming research corrals, mainly as subjects in long-term studies of deer food habits and nutrition. Of these 67 long-term residents, 57 contracted the strange disease. None survived."
-- between 1981 and 1985, 60 cases in the wild were found: 44 in mule deer, 6 in white-tailed, and 10 in elk. The first affected wild Wyoming elk was found in 1986. First clinically affected captive animal found in 1978.
-- the 1997 Wyoming survey obtained usable samples from137 deer in hunting units 16, 59, 60, 62,63, and 64. 8 positives were found, of which 7 were from unit 64.
-- 93 samples in 1997 from units 15, 55,57, and 73 tested negative. 15 elk samples from areas 5, 7, 12, 13, 21, 82, and 110 were also negative.
-- of the 100 cases reported in the wild, 11 have been found in Wyoming.

Nebraska:
-- Feb 1998 CWD confirmed by NVSL in 4.5 year old male elk in north central Nebraska game farm, affected herd quarantined
-- CWD elk trace-backs to endemic region of Colorado, purchased as 2 year old, symptoms 26 months later.
-- The affected elk had been on 2 farms in western Colorado before arriving.
-- Sick elk pastured with 12 other velvet bulls 3-5 years of age in 80 acre pasture.
-- 6 high risk bulls: blood samples sent for capillary electrophoresis.
-- 2 high risk bulls tested negative by IHC; 6 bulls with fenceline contact also negative.
-- frequent fenceline contact observed with white-tailed and mule deer.
-- trace-forward to buyers in 2 Nebraska herds and 4 other states (IA, IL, TX, WI) which were notified.
-- elk from the affected herd were sold through two auctions in Colorado and Missouri.
-- Any farmed elk or deer over 16 months dying from any cause must have brain stem tested (30 negatives so far)
-- free ranging deer (no elk) surveyed in 1997 on borders, 350 negatives.


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South Dakota: [1]
-- First CWD diagnosis in game farm elk on 8 Dec 97; now 5 infected herds,11 exposed herds
-- all 5 infected herds placed on 5 year quarantine; animals in 1 herd given to research project.
-- 38/86 animals from infected herds tested positive for CWD.
-- 2 wild white-tailed deer or ingress offspring within premises of an infected facility tested posivitve.[4]
--30 deer on elk farm premises killed, 1 tested positive for CWD.
-- one suspected case reported in antelope on infected premises [4]
-- index herd tested at USDA: 10 of 17 positive by IHC, only 3 by histopathology, only 2 animals clinical

Oklahoma:
-- In June,1998 CW) was diagnosed in a captive elk in Oklahoma.
-- The Oklahoma herd received more than 80 elk from commercial sources in Montana and Idaho.
-- Animals from the same origins as the Oklahoma herd went to 13 other ranches in Colorado, Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Nebraska, Alberta, and Saskatchewan in the past 11 years, plus many secondary movements. [8]
-- no control or surveillance program.

Utah:
-- one trace-back zoo in Salt Lake City from elk possibly associated to Oklahoma game farm.
-- One 30 year old hunter dying of CJD of unknown origin (not familial or iatrogenic).
-- 135 deer sampled in 1998, 90 tested, all negative so far, pathology done in-state. Unpublished UF&G.

Montana:
-- Single trace-back elk game farm under quarantine from Oklahoma case, though importer destroyed ear tag.
-- Single trace-forward elk game farm that had bought elk from trace-back game farm connected to Oklahoma

Iowa, Illinois, Texas, and Wisconsin:
-- These states have trace-forward herds from an infected herd in Nebraska.
-- Missouri also sold elk from this herd at auction to buyers in unknown states.
-- Wisconsin has additional trace-forward game farms from affected South Dakota game farms [7]
-- Michigan allows deer to concentrate at bait stations, spread of tuberculosis attributed to this in NE Lower Peninsula [7].

Vermont:
-- ancedotal trace-forward herds from Colorado and Wyoming

Idaho:
-- no reported CWD, possible trace-back herd based on Oklahoma case, hold order on elk farm.
-- elk ranchers forced regulatory change to ag department to avoid regs.

Saskatchewan:
-- Diagnosed first elk with CWD in 1996. 23 elk herd destroyed, other animals tested negative.
-- Second affected animal seen in April 98, siblings negative 68 elk in herd.
-- imported as a yearling, in 1989, as part of a small shipment of elk from S. Dakota,mother still healthy.
-- No trace-forward herds from this elk farm.
-- quarantine lifted on 4 herds, no more testing except voluntary.
-- index herd and 3 traceback herds will be inspected every 6 months.


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Alberta:
-- farm surveys conducted in 7 mule deer, 13 white-tails, 15 elk, no CWD found.
-- 81 wild animals also free of disease ( 4 elk, 45 mule deer, 32 white-tails) as of May 98.

Toronto:
-- In the 1970's, CWD occurred at the Metro Toronto Zoo, in a mule deer imported from a zoo in Colorado.
-- CWD has not been reported in wild deer or elk in Canada.
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#408 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:46

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:PAGE!!!
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CWDS BRIEFS April 1998 Issue
State Fish & Game Departments: all 50 states
Nebraska
Dept of Agriculture and Game and Parks
On April 9, 1998, chronic wasting disease (CWD) was diagnosed in a captive elk in Nebraska.� This discovery follows the confirmation of CWD in two captive elk herds in South Dakota earlier this year.� The Nebraska elk was a 4 1/2-year old male that was among a privately owned herd of approximately 150 elk.� The health of the animal had deteriorated for about 2 months before it died.� Confirmation of CWD was made by the USDA's National Veterinary Services Laboratories in Ames, Iowa.

The case history revealed that the affected elk was born on a farm on the Western Slope of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, but it was on two additional Colorado farms before it arrived in Nebraska at 2 to 2 1/2 years of age.� One of the Colorado premises was in the known CWD-endemic region along the Eastern Slope of the Rocky Mountains in northcentral Colorado.

The Nebraska State Veterinarian's Office has quarantined the affected herd, and a hold order was placed on two additional herds in Nebraska that received animals from the affected herd.� It also has been determined that elk farmers in four states (IA, IL, TX, WI) have received elk from the infected herd, and these states were notified by the Nebraska Bureau of Animal Industry.� Additional tracing may be forthcoming because elk from the affected herd were sold through two auctions in Colorado and Missouri.� A CWD Working Group is being formed to develop Voluntary CWD Management Guidelines.� The first goals of the Nebraska Bureau of Animal Industry are:� (1) to implement a policy requiring disease reporting of animals over 16 months of age; (2) to require identification of individual animals and reporting change of ownership; and (3) to establish a data base to monitor change of ownership.

South Dakota has taken legislative action to create a CWD control program for captive cervids.� Their program calls for a 5-year quarantine with monitoring of all affected, adjacent, or exposed captive cervid herds.� Monitored herds that maintain clean status are given certificates at annual milestones for years 1 through 4 and are designated "Certified CWD Cervid Herd" after 5 years of negative surveillance.� The Cervid CWD Surveillance Identification Program includes required examination of brain tissue from all dead cervids 18 months or older, including deaths by slaughter, hunting, illness, and injury.� The South Dakota State Veterinarian has forwarded the description of his State's program to the United States Animal Health Association along with the suggestion that it should be considered as a "starting place" for developing a Model CWD Control Program.� Persons interested in this document can obtain a copy from Dr. Sam Holland, South Dakota State Veterinarian, SD Animal Industry Board, 411 South Fort Street, Pierre, South Dakota 57501-4503.�
South Dakota program for cwd in captive elk works well
United States Animal Health Association (703) 451-3954
For immediate release:Contact - Larry Mark
MINNEAPOLIS, Minn., Oct. 7, 1998 -- A model program for the containment and eradication of chronic wasting disease (CWD) in captive elk herds was developed and carried out in South Dakota last year in response to the diagnosis of this disease in December 1997 in a captive elk herd in South Dakota.


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Dr. Sam Holland, South Dakota State Veterinarian, reviewed for the USAHA committee on captive wildlife and alternative livestock a program that was put together in a short period of time and was highly successful. Dr. Holland noted that the occurrence of CWD was treated as an animal health emergency and that great pains were taken to involve all people with a stake in the issue in developing a way to deal with the disease. The group consensus was that a mandatory control program needed to be enacted with official tests and movement criteria.

To date in South Dakota, there have been three elk herds with confirmed CWD and five others that were exposed to the affected herds. The latter have been quarantined for from one to five years. The source elk herd had 30 free-ranging white-tailed deer on the property but not in the same pasture. These 30 deer were harvested and one was found positive for CWD. A surveillance program of free-ranging wildlife has been developed that includes examination of deer and elk killed by hunters....

6. CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE: IMPORTS:

a. All cervidae entering South Dakota MUST have one of the following statements on the signed official original certificate of veterinary inspection (HC):

1. "all Cervidae Identified On This Certificate Originate From A Herd In Which All Cervidae Have Been Kept For At Least One Year Or Into Which They Were Born. There Has Been No Exposure To Or Additions From Any Other Source In The Past Year. There Have Been No Diagnosis, Signs Or Epidemiological Evidence Of Cwd In This Herd For The Past Year. Records And Causes Of Death For The Past Year In This Herd Of Origin Are Available To The Animal Health Official Of The State Of Origin."

Or

2. "all Cervidae Identified On This Certificate Originate From A Herd Which Has Been Determined To Have The Stated Monitored Status By The Animal Health Official Of The State Of South Dakota."

Or

3. "all Cervidae Identified On This Certificate Originate From A Herd Which Has Been Determined To Have Certified Cwd Cervid Herd Status By The Animal Health Official Of The State Of South Dakota."

CERVIDAE FROM MONTANA: Other than any Elk originating from any herds susceptible to post-quarantine assurance testing-will be eligible for importation into South Dakota after meeting current import testing requirements.
Colorado Policy
27 Jan 99 Dept. of Agriculture Animal Industry Division
Colorado Division of Wildlife: -- Ranching for Wildlife
See also proposed amended rules
Search hunting regs using 'chronic'
"The Colorado Department of Agriculture has taken strong preventative measures to protect Colorado's domesticated deer and elk populations from chronic wasting disease, a nervous system disease causing holes in the brain. The Colorado Department of Agriculture passed rules in April 1998 requiring all domesticated deer and elk producers to submit samples from any sick or dying deer or elk to Colorado State University for lab analysis to determine if that animal tests positive for chronic wasting disease (CWD). To date, there have been no positive cases.

Chronic wasting disease has been found in approximately five percent of free-roaming deer and less than one percent in free-roaming elk in two small geographic areas in Northcentral Colorado. The agriculture department examines all resident domesticated herd inventories, making sure that free-roaming deer or elk are not incorporated. All deer and elk with CWD in other states have been quarantined and cannot be transported into Colorado. [Does this mean all trace-back and trace-forward herds or only clinically ill animals? -- webmaster] All resident and imported domesticated deer and elk are tattooed; tested for other diseases, then tagged with an official USDA tag. Again, any animal testing positive is not allowed in the state. [There is no test on live animals -- webmaster]The department also requires all domesticated deer and elk to have health certificates, and entry permits to track their movement....

Colorado has a scrapie eradication plan as well adopting a directive at the 71st Annual Convention on June 21, 1998. Recall the first case of scrapie was diagnosed in the United States in sheep originating from Britain via Canada in 1947,. From this initial case until September 30, 1996, scrapie has been diagnosed in 1281 sheep in 850 flocks throughout the U.S.

The Rocky Mountain Regional Animal Health Laboratory offers a free CWD test kit.

Dept of Wildlife Funding: " Unlike most other agencies, the Division receives no tax monies appropriated from the General Tax Fund. Since being directed to do so by the state Legislature in 1921, the Division relies primarily on fees paid for hunting and fishing licenses to pay for its operations.... But the economic benefits to the state are far greater than the income generated by license sales. Hunters and anglers annually inject $1.7 billion into the economy when they purchase the equipment, gas, lodging and other materials in pursuit of their sport....

The Colorado Division of Wildlife receives no state tax money. Instead, the agency is funded by the purchase of fishing and hunting licenses; by federal funds generated by an excise tax on the manufacture of arms, ammunition and other sporting equipment; by donations to the nongame fund and by federal endangered species funds." �

Elk tags were the single largest source of money, providing $27.1 million in 1996-97; deer tags provided a further $11.8 million. These figures represent 49.7% and 21.&% of the entire agency budget. Fishing licenses provided most of the remainder of the total budget of $76.7 million. Non-residents contributed $37.8 million to the total; an elk tag costs $250.

Using game tag receipts and cost of tags, it can be calculated that non-residents purchased 92,000 elk tags while residents purchased 125,000. With deer, non-residents pruchased 65,890 tags; residents purchased 93,827. While not all hunts are successful, not all hunts are in an endemic area, and not all animals harbor CWD, still 376,000 total tags were sold in the 1996-97 season. Pooling of carcasses at game processing facilities both dilutes CWD infectious titre while ensuring that many more hunters get some. The elk population is estimated at 216,000 and deer at 547,000. Hunters were not required to submit heads of elk in 1998.

Chronic Wasting Disease Information and Regulations

Middle park free of chronic wasting disease DoW press release date: 01/19/1999 "...Sportsmen who hunted in 18 units were required to submit the heads of their harvested deer to the Division during the 1998 big game hunting seasons. Colorado State University pathologists examined the brains of the animals for evidence of infection. More than 350 heads from deer killed in management units 18, 28, 37 and 371 (in the Middle Park area) were submitted and all tested negative for chronic wasting disease. Miller said he is satisfied with the test results of Middle Park, and added that hunters in the Middle Park area will not be required to submit deer heads in 1999.

In addition to the Larimer County units where chronic wasting disease is known to be endemic, sampling was also conducted in the San Luis Valley, Gunnison and an area immediately northeast of Denver to make sure the disease had not spread to those areas. "We didn't expect to find chronic wasting disease in these areas, but we were sampling just to make sure," Miller said. "The results were as expected, with no evidence of the disease."

The incidence of chronic wasting disease in Larimer County remains at about 5 percent on average. In the units east of Larimer County, about 1 to 3 percent of deer on the Platte River drainage tested positive for the disease.

"Base on results over the last several years the incidence of chronic wasting disease in northeastern Colorado is not increasing," Miller said. The Division will continue to monitor chronic wasting disease. For the 1999 hunting seasons, sportsmen in 14 game management units will be required to submit deer heads to the Division for testing. Some units in northeastern Colorado will continue to be sampled. In addition, the Division will test in North Park and may conduct voluntary sampling other West Slope areas.

Units where deer head submission will be required are: 6, 7, 8, 9, 16, 17, 19, 20, 29, 87, 94, 161, 171 and 191. Heads of elk will not be required for submission because less than one percent of 1,000 animals [so about 10 elk -- these may be pooled at game processing facilities affecting everyone's meat -- webmaster] tested in Larimer County during 1996-98 showed any evidence of the disease. Researchers will test elk again in a few years to monitor any changes or possible spread of the disease.

There is no evidence to show that cattle or other domestic livestock can contract the disease, Miller said. [CWD has been passed experimentally to goat -- webmaster] Health department officials added that there is also not evidence that shows humans can contract it.

"There is no indication that chronic wasting disease is a threat to human health," said John Pape, an epidemiologist with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment. "But we do recommend that sportsmen who hunt in the area take some common-sense precautions."

Hunters should not take or consume any animal that appears sick, regardless of the cause. Other simple precautions when field dressing game include wearing rubber gloves, minimizing handling of brain and spinal tissues, and washing hands afterwards. Hunters should also avoid consuming brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen and lymph nodes of animals.

The Division has sought the recommendations from public health officials because chronic wasting disease is one of several diseases collectively called transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. This group of maladies also includes scrapie, a disease of domestic sheep and goats, and bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) that affects some European cattle. British researchers have linked BSE with a new variant of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, an extremely rare, but fatal, disease in humans...."
Highlights of Colorado's CWD brochure
dated 17 Nov 97 [received in response to 1 Feb 99 request]:
-- "The pathogen that causes this disease has not been identified... Neither the agent causing chronic wasting disease nor its mode of transmission have been identified." The words prion and CJD are nowhere mentioned.

-- Scrapie and BSE are discussed as "similar in some respects"; successful experimental transmission to goat is not mentioned though "according to experts, there's no evidence that chronic wasting disease can be transferred naturally to domestic livestock."

-- Range: northern Front Range from Wyoming border south to Lyons and east to Ft. Morgan. Most cases from Estes Park or foothills between Ft. Collins and Loveland.

-- Two cases documented along South Platte River just SE of Larimer County. [Jan 1999 press release gives this as 1-3% of deer in this drainage]

--CWD has been documented in 11 game management units [GMU]; 85% of documented cases are from units 19 and 20.

-- A map showing affected hunting units as of November 1997 is provided. Units 7, 8, 9, 19, 20, 29, 93, 94, 95, 96, and 191 are documented as affected. Units 87, 91, 92, and 954 have mandatory carcass head checks.

-- Lack of enforcement by DoW of feeding stations regs: "Artificial feeding of deer and elk may comound the problem -- in recent years the disease has been most prevalent in areas in the Estes Valley where residents put out feeders to attract deer and elk. Although that practice has been specifically prohibited by regulations approved by the Colorado Wildlife Commission in 1992, many well-meaning individuals coninue to ignore the law and may be exacerbating this problem."

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-- Hunter safety: " There is no evidence that chronic wasting disease affects humans, but the Divison of Wildlife advises hunters to take simple precautions when handling the carcass of any deer or elk harvested in the units where CWD occurs Wear rubber gloves when filed dressing carcasses, minimize handling of brain and spinal column and wash hands afterwards. Hunters shoud bone out carcasses or at least avoid consuming brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen and lymph nodes of harvested animals."
Vermont
Times Argus Rutland Herald Sunday Magazine (cover story) Feb. 7. 1999 Terry J. Allen 10 Feb 99
"...Chronic wasting disease -- the TSE that affects deer and elk-- is worrying Vermont officials. CWD is endemic in some states in the western US, regions from which Vermont elk farmers have imported stock. There are currently four farms in Vermont raising elk--in Isle La Mott, Tunbridge, Hinesberg, and Derby. ....

Concern about CWD has prompted Vermont state officials to tighten controls on the importation of elk into the state and to mandate better fencing for those already here. According to State Veterinarian Dr. Samuel Hutchins, as far as can be determined , none of Vermont's imported elk came from herds of farm-raised elk found to contain animals with CWD.

But there is really no way to know. The state, according to Hutchins, "relies totally on the federal or state government" to notify it which elk farms were contaminated and whether they shipped animals to Vermont. The problem is that there is no national tracking or notification program.

According to Lisa Ferguson , senior staff veterinarian at the National Center for Import Export and part of the government's TSE Working Group, "Farms [breeding and selling elk] would be under the authority of individual states. Vermont would have to call each state and ask for more information. That is up to the state if they want to do that."

John Buck, wildlife biologist with the Vermont Department of Fish and Wildlife, also believes that there have been no known cases of chronic wasting disease in Vermont in either deer or elk. But since there is no formal testing program, "there is no way to know for sure," he said. Indeed, there is no way to test live animals and no animals in Vermont have been autopsied looking for TSEs.

That uncertainty had led some officials to recommend a quarantine period for imported animals. But for how long? "Admittedly," said Buck, "the incubation period is unknown and the symptoms can be vague. Unfortunately, we don't know how effective a quarantine is that is shorter than the incubation period." Furthermore, it appears that apparently healthy animals can be carriers.....

Last year, Vermont instituted a ban on importation from farms with CWD-infected deer and elk. It still accepts animals from high-risk regions so long as the animal does not present obvious symptoms....

"We are concerned," said Buck, "about all kinds of exotic diseases that could enter the population and and could do irreparable harm to our wild life." One TSE, scrapie, is already found in most states. While no cases have been reported recently in Vermont sheep, according to Ferguson "there is no state where we can guarantee that there is no scrapie. The reporting program is voluntary, but there is no eradication program. To make a statement that the state is free of disease implies that there is a level of surveillance in place." The same might be said for chronic wasting disease in deer and elk.

Derby Elk farmer Doug Nelson is concerned, but believes his herd is healthy. He has 130 head, and had bought 25 animals from Idaho, Saskatchewan (both regions that have reported isolated cases) and possibly other western areas. He has begun reading up on CWD, "I know what disease can do to a herd. I lost 1,000 head of cows to brucellosis in 1978," he said.

Paul Casey of Hinesberg, who recently bought 25 elk from Nelson doesn't know where the animals originated but doesn't see any need for Vermont to investigate further or impose more regulations. "I think its being worked on by a lot of different people from a lot of different angles and I think it would be very premature for Vermont to get involved at this stage."


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Despite their reassurances that everything in Vermont is under control, state officials have no idea where the animals imported into the state really originated. One expert said, "no elk farm can be certified CWD-free. Elk are traded around like baseball cards. Everyone assumes they have the best quality elk from best herd, but quite a few farms have been seriously contaminated."

The paperwork that accompanies each shipment of elk to Vermont certifies only that each animal tested negative for tuberculosis and brucellosis. It states the place where the animals were bought, not where they were a year or even a month before that."You can't say the farm or herd of origin," says Hutchins. "Doug [Nelson]'s herd was an `assembled herd.' He bought animals from one individual who assembled them from various herds."

Asked for an example, Hutchins explained, "Somebody buys five animals from one person, five from another, and five from another." When the animals are sold, the place where they were "assembled" is listed on the health chart as the place of origin. Because of the requirements for testing, "they've probably been there for at least two weeks. The ear tag would give us a clue [further back] if we wanted to pursue it."

Apparently, though they have not wanted to. Nonetheless, Hutchins says he is confident that CWD has not entered the state. He did, however, note that the rules have been tightened and because of new regulations, any animals now coming into Vermont would be covered by a stricter regulatory process. "People would have to address the issue of whether the animals were exposed." If they knew.

In a further measure, on January 1, the state sent notices to vets about CWD and reminded them to report any suspicious symptoms or deaths. "There is also in draft form a requirement to test any animal over 16 months of age for TSE that is killed, died or has clinical symptoms," said Hutchins. That will cost owner $100 per animal...."

While an outbreak of TSE in the Vermont elk population may be unlikely, if it did occur, and if it spread to the native deer population, the consequences could be serious. The Vermont Department of Agriculture is in a difficult position. It combines two functions: promoting agriculture and protecting the public interest. Although these functions are performed by separate subdivisions, a fundamental conflict of interest exists in those roles. "You are asking an agency to do impossible if it is supposed to be promoting agriculture at same time as being asked to blow it out of water," said one observer.

Hutchins had no doubt that the public good would come before the profits of agribusiness. "As a vet, I have an ethical standard to meet," he said. Another potential problem for Vermont is that it is generally up to farmers and herders to report sick livestock, whether, elk and deer, or cows. And when destruction of the whole herd is possible, no compensation is guaranteed, and the facilities cannot be used again for livestock of any kind, farmers can be sorely tempted to keep quiet about potentially infections diseases. "We would hope someone would say something about it," said Hutchins, "With past outbreaks of TB and brucellosis, there was no automatic compensation, but the legislature did approve some. But with those diseases there were tests." Until test are cheap and available, the danger remains. And until a treatment is found, the prognosis for those infected is grim. Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is relatively rare in wild deer and elk. Ongoing surveys show that on average CWD affects 3 percent of deer and far less than 1 percent of elk in 13 units in northeast Colorado. It appears most prevalent in northeastern Larimer County. The disease causes brain damage in deer and elk. Affected animals are emaciated, behave abnormally, salivate excessively and eventually die. There is no evidence CWD affects domestic livestock.

There also is no evidence CWD affects humans, but the DOW and state public health officials advise hunters to take simple precautions when handling the carcass of a deer or elk harvested in units where it occurs. Wear rubber gloves when field dressing carcasses and minimize handling of brain and spinal tissues and wash hands afterward. Hunters should bone out carcasses or at least avoid consuming brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen and lymph nodes of harvested animals. Hunters should not handle or consume wild animals that appear sick, regardless of the cause.

If you see or kill a deer or elk that may have CWD, contact the DOW in Fort Collins, (970) 484-2836. You can also request a brochure from us on CWD.


MANDATORY HEAD SUBMISSIONS

1. To support ongoing CWD surveys, hunters who harvest deer during regular or late rifle seasons in units 7, 8, 9, 18, 19, 20, 28, 29, 37, 87, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 191, 371 and 951 must submit the heads to the DOW for sampling within 5 days after harvesting their animal. Take the head to any DOW officer in those units or drop it at one of these locations:

2. Hunters who harvest deer in the above units must complete a special survey tag that will be mailed to them or is available at the locations listed above. The tag must be securely attached to the animal�s head before the head is presented to a DOW officer or is taken to a drop-off site.

3. Hunters can remove antlers and capes from harvested deer before submitting heads for sampling. Trophy heads can be sampled by appointment by calling (970) 484-4371. Mounts othr than European should be caped before sampling.

4. These surveys provide information on CWD occurrence in northeast Colorado deer populations. Sampling and testing procedures are neither designed nor intended to provide quality assurance for individual carcasses. When adequate information is provided, hunters will be notified by mail of indivdual testing results and will be asked for more information on harvest location. However, four to six weeks may be required to complete sampling and testing.

5. Hunters harvesting deer that test positive for CWD will be offered a refund of their license fees. Refunds are limited to the license cost. Game processing fees and other incidental expenses are not eligible for refunds.
Montana to Survey for Chronic Wasting Disease
Montana FWP web site
During the upcoming fall big game hunting season, Fish, Wildlife & Parks' Wildlife Laboratory will be conducting surveys for Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) in FWP administrative regions 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7. The surveys will include collection of heads from mule deer, white-tailed deer and elk. Sampled animals will be tagged at check stations to indicate that the head was removed for the CWD survey to prevent enforcement problems with evidence of sex. Specific brain tissues and tonsils will be extracted from the heads. Laboratory technicians will be assisting at several check stations to collect the tissues and these will be forwarded to a laboratory where histologic sections will be examined by a pathologist to look for lesions typical of CWD.

CWD has been identified in wild deer and elk in Colorado and Wyoming and in seven game farms in South Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Saskatchewan. For the past several years, Montana FWP monitored a limited number of big game animals for CWD and has found no evidence of the disease in free ranging wildlife. CWD was not believed to be present in Montana game farms until late June of this year, when the Department of Livestock notified FWP that a game farm elk reportedly shipped from Montana to Oklahoma was confirmed with CWD.

FWP has proposed increasing the surveillance for this disease in wild elk and deer. The surveillance will provide monitoring the southern perimeters of the state where the disease is most likely to naturally spread from Wyoming and Colorado. Emphasis will be placed on animals that are 1.5 years old and older of both sexes.

Tom Palmer of Montana FWP writes us about concerning a leaked "secret memo" circulating on the Internet:

"We don't have "internal" memos and this notion of something being "leaked" is odd. All of FWP's communications are open, public, and straight forward. The .memo released to the press by FWP and Gov. Marc Racicot. FWP is taking the CWD threat to wildlife very seriously.

Karen Zachheim, our Game Farm Coordinator, will send you any material requested .Should you want to talk to Karen about the CWD issue, call 406-444-4039, or Paul Sihler in the Director's office at 406-444-5620. If the material doesn't arrive early next week, please call me (406-444-3051)."

Montana has 93 game farms with 4,000 animals; 12 further facilities approved. Elk hunters pend an estimate $75 million per year for 22,000 elk, deer hunters $68 million to kill 75,000 mule deer and 60,000 white-tailed deer.
Nevada testing deer and elk for CWD
AP 11 Oct 98
No indication of disease, goal of 500 deer and elk brains in 1998

State biologists are launching a study to determine whether deer or elk in Nevada have been infected with a malady -- similar to 'mad cow disease' -- that has turnedup in other Western states.

"We want to stress that there is nothing to indicate that the disease is in Nevada," said Gregg Tanner game bureau chief for the Nevada Division of Wildlife. "This is simple a concerted effort to confirm that we do not have it because of its potential ramifications."

... Deer infected with it show changes in behavior, including a lack of fear of humans. In later stages, the animals may wander aimlessly or spend unusual amounts of time with their ears and head drooping.

"It is the wildlife version of mad cow disease," said Chris Healy, wildlife division spokesman. ...Nevada biologists plan to analyze brain tissue samples for at least 500 deer and elk killed by hunters in the coming season.

Wildlife officials said there is some concern that elk and deer might be able to transmit the disease to cattle but there is no evidence of that so far. Brain tissue samples will be collected at game meat processing plats, field contacts with hnters and hunter check stations. They must come from deer at least 18 months old which have been dead for 24 hours or less...

Tanner suggested hunters not shoot an animal that is acting abnormal or looks sick. He said it is always a good idea to wear rubber gloves when field dressing any big game and recommends minimizing contact with the brains and spinal column of deer and elk. David Rice, the diveision's chief conservation educator, said those recomendations are intended as extra safety precautions.

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Nevada --
North Dakota: mandatory surveillance
ND Department of Agriculture Press Release January 23, 1998
State Veterinarian Dr. Larry Schuler said the surveillance program will apply to all domestic elk and deer owners, and will go into effect in February. It has never been detected in either wild or domestic animals in North Dakota. Schuler said the surveillance program will require that any death among domestic elk or deer must be reported immediately to the owner's veterinarian. The veterinarian will arrange for removal of the animal's brain which will be sent first to North Dakota State University and then to an approved lab for diagnostic analysis. If the laboratory confirms a positive diagnosis for CWD, further action, including possible quarantines, will be determined by the North Dakota Board of Animal Health.
Canadian Policy
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Re: D Minus Comprehension

#409 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:47

Hansi Smurf wrote:"The Endocrine is Rising!" - Dr. Robert Anton Wilson R.I.P.

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Canadian Policy
June 19, 1998
What does the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) do to prevent CWD from entering or becoming established in Canada?

Under the Health of Animals Act, the CFIA has the power to act when a suspect case of CWD is found. This may include quarantine and destruction of all exposed animals.

The CFIA routinely monitors for CWD. Each herd is tested every three years for tuberculosis, and at that time agency inspectors examine each animal for signs of neurological disease. In addition, all deer and elk sent to provincial laboratories for post mortem are screened for CWD as part of an ongoing surveillance program.

In 1988 a Captive Ungulate Program was created because the health status of game farmed deer, elk and bison was not well known, and they posed a potential health risk for the spread of tuberculosis and brucellosis to Canadian cattle. In 1990 it became mandatory for a permit to be issued in order to move an animal, thus allowing for the monitoring of all movement of these species.

Since 1990 there has been a ban on the importation of deer and elk from the United States.

Are products like venison or powdered antler velvet from animals that have been exposed to CWD safe?

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According to Health Canada there are no studies available on the safety of tissues from elk with CWD. In studies using mice experimentally infected with scrapie, another TSE, muscle and skin tissues were not found to be infectious, at any detectable level.

However, we have to be very cautious in using these results to predict the safety of products from infected or exposed elk, since test results from one species do not necessarily apply to another.

1 May 1996
Steve Sullivan, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, writes:
"In early 1996, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC) confirmed a case of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) in a single elk located on a small game farm facility in southern Saskatchewan. The affected animal was imported as a yearling, in 1989, as part of a small shipment of elk originating from the U.S.

The game farm in question is not located near other (alternative or conventional) livestock operations. No animals on this farm have died, nor have any animals moved off the premises, for any reason, since the elk herd was established.

Following the confirmation of CWD, the carcass of the affected elk was incinerated and the following actions took place:

1) AAFC carried out an inventory of all elk on the farm;

2) no 'movement permits' for the elk were issued to the owner; (All captive ungulates in Canada require numbered permits to allow their movement anywhere within the country, including farm-to-farm)

3) all animals that were part of the original shipment from the U.S. were traced and located; and

4) the affected herd was put in isolation.

Chronic Wasting Disease is not a "reportable disease", and the Office International des ?pizooties (OIE) (the organization that establishes international animal health guidelines), does not require notification its presence."



CWD stories archived elsewhere on this site<
27 Apr 99 Site search results
[See also link collection to TSE in other wild animals.]
CWD News:

Under-diagnosis in elk: 10/17 prove positive with better method
21 Jan 99 -- Utah hunter: CWD blood recall?
20 Dec 98 -- Bad news on game farm elk CWD
12 Nov 98 --Colorado CJD tragedy and CWD concerns
11 Oct 98 -- Nevada testing deer and elk for CWD
23 Jun 98 -- Elk CWD spreading on game farms
19 Mar 98 -- BSE Inquiry: Day 6 -- Mink and CWD misinformation
19 Mar 98 -- CWD: spreading it around
19 Mar 98 -- CWD: failed eradication attempts
19 Mar 98 -- CWD in Estes Park: what goes on at Lexington Lane?
19 Mar 98 -- 14 facilities where CWD has been found
19 Mar 98 -- How did CWD get started and spread?
19 Mar 98 -- Elk growers ask for surveillance in N. Dakota
19 Mar 98 -- Ban on elk antlers in human food rejected
19 Mar 98 -- CWD in High Country News
19 Mar 98 -- CWD Web Resources
14 Feb 98 -- Colorado's dementia experiment in humans
24 Feb 98 -- Feds need to take control over Colorado CWD
14 Feb 98 -- Surveillance for chronic wasting disease in Colorado
14 Feb 98 -- CWD by river drainage
14 Feb 98 -- Some early history of CWD
10 Jul 97 -- Chronic Wasting Disease in Canada23 Jul 98 -- Saskatchewan elk disease waning?
14 Feb 98 -- More chronic wasting disease news: 1, 2
14 Feb 98 -- Welcome to Stetsonville
07 Feb 98 -- Deer in three Wyoming counties infected with chronic wasting disease
07 Feb 98 -- Chronic wasting disease: deer-to-cattle shown
07 Feb 98 -- Worry over CWD hazards
05 Feb 98 -- Canada reports CWD in mule deer on game farms
07 Feb 98 -- Dr. Steven Dealler on CWD risks
27 Jan 98 -- Concerned rancher writes in about deer feeding habits
03 Feb 98 -- To eat or not to eat is the hunter's question
01 Mar 97 -- CWD and hunters square off in Colorado
01 Apr 97 -- CWD: lab progress is slow
01 Mar 97 -- Mystery of CWD in US deer, elk explained?
Chronic wasting disease update

CWD Science:

Host range of CWD is altered on passage in ferrets (Virology 1998 Nov 25;251(2):297-301)
Mule Deer with CWD: 3 new prion alleles reported
Pronghorn and fallow deer prion sequences released
Is scrapie genetic?
Cervid prion genes in context
Capillary isoelectric focusing of the scrapie prion protein
Dermal prions: enough to make your skin crawl
Chronic wasting disease shows TSEs loose in US
Chronic Wasting Disease: Research Directions



CWD Officialdom
(Contact information for other USAHA emembers and TSE researchers are proveded separately)
State Fish & Game Departments: all 50 states
Colorado Department of Agriculture
State Veterinarian Dr. Jerry Bohlender
Assistant State Veterarian Dr. Wayne Cunningham
700 Kipling St., #1100
Lakewood, CO 80215-5894
Tel: 303/239-4161
Fax 303/239-4164

Colorado Division of Wildlife:

-- Ranching for Wildlife
-- Financing of Division of Wildlife



Colorado Elk and Game Breeders Association
Veterinarian Dr. Liz Chandler (970) 984-3269

Colorado Division of Wildlife Veterinarian
Dr. Mike Miller (970) 472-4348

Colorado State University
Diagnostic Lab Veterinarian Dr. Barb Powers
Veterinarian Dr. Terry Spraker
Veterinarian Dr. Dan Gould (970) 491-1281

Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment
Epidemiologist John Pape (303) 692-2628

Idaho
Dr. Bob R. Hillman, State Veterinarian
Idaho Dept. of Agriculture
P.O.Box 7249, Boise, ID 83707
Tel: 208/332-8540
Fax: 208/334-4062


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Iowa
Dr. Walter D. Felker, State Veterinarian
Iowa Dept. of Agriculture
Wallace Bldg., 2nd Fl.
East 9th & Grand Ave.
Des Moines, IA 50319
Tel: 515/281-5305
Fax: 515/281-4282

Nontana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks
Tom Palmer 406-444-3051
Paul Sihler, Director's office 406-444-5620
Karen Zachheim, Game Farm Coordinator and Regs 406-444-4039

Montana Dept. of Agriculture
Dr. Arnold A. Gertonson, State Veterinarian
Dr. Linfield
P O.Box 202001
Helena, MT 59620-2001
Tel: 406/444-2043
Fax 406/444-1929

Nebraska
Dr. Butch [Roger John] Sahara
Nebraska Dept of Agriculture
tel: (402)471-2351

Nebraska
Dept. of Agriculture phone book
Dr. Larry L. Williams, State Veterinarian
P.O.Box 94787
Lincoln, NE 68509-4787
Tel: 402/471-2351
Fax: 402/471-3252


North Dakota
Dr. Larry Schuler state Veterinarian (701) 328-2654
Dr. Susan Keller (701) 328-2654 deputy state veterinarian

Nevada
Chris Healy, wildlife division spokesman

Oklahoma
Dr. Burke L. Healey, State Veterinarian
Oklahoma Dept. of Agriculture
Animal Industry Services
2800 North Lincoln Blvd.
Oklahoma City, OK 73105
Tel: 405/521-3891
Fax: 405/522-0756

Rocky Mountain Lab in Hamilton, Montana
Byron Caughey tel:406-363-9264/9291
Bruce Chesebro tel 406-363-9354

South Dakota
Dr. Sam D. Holland, State Veterinarian
South Dakota Animal Industry Board
411 S. Fort St.
Pierre, SD 57501
Tel: 605/773-3321
Fax 605/773-5459

Utah
Dr. Michael R. Marshall, State Veterinarian
Utah Dept. of Agriculture
350 N Redwood Rd., Box 146500
Salt Lake City, UT 84114-6500
Tel: 801/538-7160
Fax 801/538-7169

Wisconsin
Steven W.Miller [concerned about wild deer and captive deer
George E Meyer
Dr. Sarah Hurley AD/5
Dr. Clarence Siroky DATCP
Tom Hauge WM/4

RF Marsh's colleagues, co-author of CWD-to-monkey transmission paper
University of Wisconsin, Madison, Dept of Animal Health and Biomedical Sciences
Aiken Judd M 608-262-7362, 608-262-0427
McKenzie Debbie I, 608-262-0427
Bartz Jason C 608-262-0427

, 53706, USA.
Wyoming
Pathologist Dr. Beth Williams
Department of Veterinary Science
University of Wyoming
Laramie, WY 83070
Telephone (307) 742-6638

Wyoming Fish & Game
Dr. Tom Thorne
5400 Bishop Blvd.
Cheyenne, WY 82006
Telephone (307) 777-4586

Wyoming Livestock Board
Dr. Jim Logan, Interim State Veterinarian
862 Paradise Valley Road
Riverton, WY 82501
Tel: 307/777-6443 or (307) 777-7515
Fax 307/777-6561


CANADA
Steve Sullivan
Senior Communications Advisor
(Animal Health/Welfare Issues)
Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
Ottawa, Canada

Dr. N. G. Willis, Director Animal Health Div.
930 Carling Ave.
Ottawa, Ont. Canada K1A 0C5
Tel: 613/993-6671

Alberta (Edmonton)
MJ Pybus Alberta Fish and Wildlife
DK ONderka Animal Health
S. Honour


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Norway
Tom Warren [reindeer + scrapie]
Biol. Inst., Blindern
Univ. of Oslo Norway
Tel. 472 285 4794 Telefax 472 285 4605

Dr. Victor F. Nettles, Chairman USAHA Wildlife Diseases Committee
SCWDS/College of Veterinaty Medicine
The University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602
Phone: 706/542-1741
Fax: 706/542-5865

North American Elk Breeders Association
Mr. Dave Whittlesey
P.O.Box 1640
Platte City, MO 64079
Phone: 816/431-3605
Fax: 816/431-2705

North American Deer Farmers Assn NADeFA

Rocky Mt Elk Foundation

USDA ARS Ames, Iowa
Randall Cutlip, Supvy Vetnry Medcl Offcr
2300 Dayton Road, P.O. Box 70 , Ames, IA 50010
Phone: 515-239-8316
FAX: 515-239-8458
Allen L. Jenny 515-239-8521
Kathryn R. Goodwin 515 239-8287 X287
William D.Taylor 515-239-8521

Schmerr, Mary Jo
Research Chemist
Ames, Iowa
National Animal Disease Center
Respiratory & Neurologic Disease Research
tel (515) 239-8287 X287
fax (515) 239-8458

Miller, Janice M
Veterinary Medical Officer
Ames, Iowa
National Animal Disease Center
tel (515) 239-8349 X349
fax (515) 239-8458

Katherine O'Rourke
Pullman Washington expert on early diagnostic techniques, cervid prion genetics.
USDA, ARS, ADRU WSU 337 Bustad
Pullman, WA
tel 509-335-6020
fax 509-335-8328

Joel Stone, D.V.M., Ph.D [scrapie and cwd origins]
Merck Research Laboratories
Rahway, N.J.

Mon, 6 May 1996 ProMed message from Dr. Stone:

"I'm not sure about this specific case, but before going to vet school, I
worked for the Colorado Division of Wildlife in Fort Collins, CO. We had
captive bred mule and elk that acquired a Chronic wasting syndrome similar
to what you describe. Though the animals were fed alfalfa hay, native
grass in their pens were also available. This particular tract of land
had once been domestic sheep range and at the time it was speculated that
scrapie or something similar to scrapie was responsible for the disease."



The scientific literature on CWD
Medline search by webmaster for scientific articles on CWD 17 Jan 99
The host range of chronic wasting disease is altered on passage in ferrets.
Virology 1998 Nov 25;251(2):297-301
Bartz JC, Marsh RF, McKenzie DI, Aiken JM
[This paper also cites transmission to goat and transmission to squirrel monkey] Chronic wasting disease (CWD), a member of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), was first identified in captive mule and black-tail deer in 1967. Due to the failure to transmit CWD to rodents, we investigated the use of ferrets (Mustela putorius furo) as a small animal model of CWD. The inoculation of CWD into ferrets resulted in an incubation period of 17-21 months on primary passage that shortened to 5 months by the third ferret passage. The brain tissue of animals inoculated with ferret-passaged CWD exhibited spongiform degeneration and reactive astrocytosis. Western blot analysis of ferret-passaged CWD demonstrated the presence of PrP-res. Unlike mule deer CWD, ferret-passaged CWD was transmissible to Syrian golden hamsters (Mesocricetus auratus). Increasing the passage number of CWD in ferrets increased the pathogenicity of the agent for hamsters. This increase in host range of a field isolate on interspecies transmission emphasizes the need for caution when assessing the potential risk of transmission of TSEs, such as bovine spongiform encephalopathy, to new host species. Copyright 1998 Academic Press.
Epidemiology of chronic wasting disease in captive Rocky Mountain elk.
J Wildl Dis 1998 Jul;34(3):532-8
Miller MW, Wild MA, Williams ES
Between June 1986 and May 1997, chronic wasting disease (CWD) was the only natural cause of adult mortality among captive Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) held at a wildlife research facility near Fort Collins, Colorado (USA). Of 23 elk that remained in this herd > 15 mo, four (17%) developed CWD. All affected elk were unrelated females from the founding cohort, captured as neonates and raised in 1986. The index case was diagnosed in 1989; time intervals between subsequent cases ranged from 13 to 32 mo. Initial age at onset of clinical signs ranged from about 2.9 to 8.1 yr; duration of clinical disease ranged from 5 to 12 mo (mean = 7.5 mo) prior to death. Intraspecific lateral transmission of CWD seemed the most plausible explanation for the epidemic pattern observed; neither periparturient nor maternal transmission appeared necessary to sustain this outbreak. Early detection and elimination of incubating or clinical individuals may have aided in reducing exposure or infection rates as compared to a previous outbreak in the same facility. Transmission routes and rates, pathogenesis, antemortem diagnostic tools, and the potential role of reservoirs or environmental contamination in perpetuating CWD epidemics warrant further investigation.
Monoclonal antibody F89/160.1.5 defines a conserved epitope on the ruminant prion protein.
J Clin Microbiol 1998 Jun;36(6):1750-5
O'Rourke KI, Baszler TV, Miller JM, Spraker TR, Sadler-Riggleman I, Knowles DP
The transmissible spongiform encephalopathies are a heterogeneous group of fatal neurodegenerative disorders occurring in humans, mink, cats, and ruminant herbivores. The occurrence of novel transmissible spongiform encephalopathies in cattle in the United Kingdom and Europe and in mule deer and elk in parts of the United States has emphasized the need for reliable diagnostic tests with standardized reagents. Postmortem diagnosis is performed by histologic examination of brain sections from affected animals. The histopathological criteria for transmissible spongiform encephalopathies include gliosis, astrocytosis, neuronal degeneration, and spongiform change. These lesions vary in intensity and anatomic location depending on the host species and genetics, stage of disease, and infectious agent source. Diagnosis by histopathology alone may be ambiguous in hosts with early cases of disease and impossible if the tissue is autolyzed. Deposition of the prion protein (an abnormal isoform of a native cellular sialoglycoprotein) in the central nervous system is a reliable marker for infection, and immunohistochemical detection of this marker is a useful adjunct to histopathology. In the present paper we describe monoclonal antibody (MAb) F89/160.1.5, which reacts with prion protein in tissues from sheep, cattle, mule deer, and elk with naturally occurring transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. This MAb recognizes a conserved epitope on the prion protein in formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded sections after hydrated autoclaving. MAb F89/160.1.5 will be useful in diagnostic and pathogenesis studies of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies in these ruminant species.
High sequence homology of the PrP gene in mule deer and Rocky Mountain elk.
Lancet. 1997 Jul 19;350(9072):219-20. No abstract available.
Cervenakova L, Rohwer R, Williams S, Brown P, Gajdusek DC
Is codon 129 of prion protein polymorphic in human beings but not in animals?
Schatzl HM, Wopfner F, Gilch S, von Brunn A, Jager G
Lancet. 1997 May 31;349(9065):1603-4. No abstract available.
Deer health and disease.
Acta Vet Hung 1998;46(3):381-94
Mackintosh CG
This paper describes the most significant diseases of farmed deer which have emerged over the last 30 or so years. It describes their characteristic signs, how control measures have evolved, their current status and gives an indication of future diagnostic and control measures. Overall, it shows that wild deer brought into a farming environment have developed some of the production limiting diseases which affect sheep and cattle, such as parasitism and trace element deficiencies. In addition, farmed deer are susceptible to potentially fatal diseases such as tuberculosis, malignant catarrhal fever and yersiniosis. A disease which has recently emerged and has the potential to be more serious than any of the above is Johne's disease. In North America, Chronic Wasting Disease occurs in captive and wild deer in only two states but has the potential to be a serious threat to wild and farmed deer elsewhere if it spreads. The zoonotic risks of diseases affecting deer are discussed, as well as stress, welfare and deer restraint. The productivity of farmed deer can be maximised by using a well-designed deer health programme integrated with good management and feeding.
Spongiform encephalopathy in free-ranging mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus), white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) and Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) in northcentral Colorado.
J Wildl Dis 1997 Jan;33(1):1-6
Spraker TR, Miller MW, Williams ES, Getzy DM, Adrian WJ, Schoonveld GG, Spowart RA, O'Rourke KI, Miller JM, Merz PA
Between March 1981 and June 1995, a neurological disease characterized histologically by spongiform encephalopathy was diagnosed in 49 free-ranging cervids from northcentral Colorado (USA). Mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) were the primary species affected and accounted for 41 (84%) of the 49 cases, but six Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) and two white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) were also affected. Clinical signs included emaciation, excessive salivation, behavioral changes, ataxia, and weakness. Emaciation with total loss of subcutaneous and abdominal adipose tissue and serous atrophy of remaining fat depots were the only consistent gross findings. Spongiform encephalopathy characterized by microcavitation of gray matter, intraneuronal vacuolation and neuronal degeneration was observed microscopically in all cases. Scrapie-associated prion protein or an antigenically indistinguishable protein was demonstrated in brains from 26 affected animals, 10 using an immunohistochemical staining procedure, nine using electron microscopy, and seven using Western blot. Clinical signs, gross and microscopic lesions and ancillary test findings in affected deer and elk were indistinguishable from those reported in chronic wasting disease of captive cervids. Prevalence estimates, transmissibility, host range, distribution, origins, and management implications of spongiform encephalopathy in free-ranging deer and elk remain undetermined.
Electron microscopic findings in brain of Rocky Mountain elk with chronic wasting disease.
Folia Neuropathol 1994;32(3):171-3
Guiroy DC, Liberski PP, Williams ES, Gajdusek DC
We report here the electron microscopic findings in brain of Rocky Mountain elk with chronic wasting disease (CDW), a progressive and fatal neurological disorder of wild ruminants characterized neuropathologically by intraneuronal vacuolation, spongiform change of the neuropil and astrocytic hypertrophy and hyperplasia. Ultrastructural findings included membrane-bound vacuoles in neuronal elements, increased number of glial filaments, dystrophic neurites, numerous neuritic plaques, Hirano bodies and perikaryal inclusion bodies. Similar findings have been observed in CWD-affected mule deer, as well as in bovine spongiform encephalopathy, and in natural and experimental scrapie and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease indicating a common etiopathogenesis.
Ultrastructural neuropathology of chronic wasting disease in captive mule deer.
Acta Neuropathol (Berl) 1993;85(4):437-44
Guiroy DC, Williams ES, Liberski PP, Wakayama I, Gajdusek DC
Chronic wasting disease (CWD), a progressive and uniformly fatal neurological disorder, is characterized neuropathologically by intraneuronal vacuolation, spongiform change of the neuropil and astrocytic hyperplasia and hypertrophy. Ultrastructural neuropathological findings consist of (1) extensive vacuolation in neuronal processes, within myelin sheaths, formed by splitting at the major dense lines or within axons; (2) dystrophic neurites (dendrites, axonal preterminals and myelinated axons containing degenerating mitochondria and pleomorphic, electron-dense inclusion bodies); (3) prominent astrocytic gliosis; (4) amyloid plaques; and (5) giant neuronal autophagic vacuoles. Other findings include activated macrophages and occasional spheroidal structures containing densely packed fibrillar material of unknown origin, abundant structures suggestive of degenerating microtubules entrapped in filamentous masses, vacuoles and myelin figures. Similar findings have been previously observed in scrapie-infected hamsters and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD)-infected mice, bovine spongiform encephalopathy, and CJD indicating that CWD in captive mule deer belongs to the subacute spongiform encephalopathies (transmissible brain amyloidoses).
Neuropathology of chronic wasting disease of mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) and elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni).
Vet Pathol 1993 Jan;30(1):36-45
Williams ES, Young S
The pathology of the central nervous system of nine mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) and six elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) with chronic wasting disease, a spongiform encephalopathy of mule deer and elk, was studied by light microscopy. Lesions were similar in both species and were characterized by spongiform transformation of gray matter, intracytoplasmic vacuolation of neurons, neuronal degeneration and loss, astrocytic hypertrophy and hyperplasia, occurrence of amyloid plaques, and absence of significant inflammatory response. Distribution and severity of lesions were evaluated at 57 locations; there were only minor differences between deer and elk. Consistent, severe lesions occurred in olfactory tubercle and cortex, hypothalamus, and the parasympathetic vagal nucleus of deer, and sections examined from these regions would be sufficient to establish a diagnosis of chronic wasting disease. Lesions were milder in these locations in elk but were sufficiently apparent to be of diagnostic value. Other differences included increased severity of lesions in some thalamic nuclei in elk in contrast to deer, the occurrence of amyloid plaques demonstrable by hematoxylin and eosin and histochemical stains in deer in contrast to elk, and the presence of mild white matter lesions in elk but not in deer. Lesions of chronic wasting disease were qualitatively comparable to those of scrapie, bovine spongiform encephalopathy, transmissible mink encephalopathy, and the human spongiform encephalopathies. Topographic distribution and lesion severity of chronic wasting disease were most similar to those of scrapie and bovine spongiform encephalopathy. Duration of clinical disease did not significantly influence lesion distribution or severity in either species.
Fibrils in brain of Rocky Mountain elk with chronic wasting disease contain scrapie amyloid.
Acta Neuropathol (Berl) 1993;86(1):77-80
Guiroy DC, Williams ES, Song KJ, Yanagihara R, Gajdusek DC
Chronic wasting disease (CWD), a progressive, fatal neurological disorder of captive mule deer and Rocky Mountain elk, is characterized neuropathologically by spongiform change in the neuropil, intraneuronal vacuolation and astrocytic hypertrophy and hyperplasia. Recently, scrapie amyloid-immunoreactive plaques have been demonstrated in brain tissues of CWD-affected captive mule deer, Rocky Mountain elk and hybrids of captive mule deer and white-tailed deer. We now report on the presence of abnormal fibrils isolated from brain tissues of Rocky Mountain elk using negative-stain electron microscopy. These fibrils resemble those found in scrapie-infected hamster brain. Furthermore, protein bands with relative molecular masses of 26 to 30 kilodaltons were shown to be immunoreactive to antibodies raised against scrapie amyloid by Western immunoblotting. Immuno-dot blot showed similar reactivity. Our data support the clinical and pathological diagnosis of the disease and provide further evidence that CWD belongs to the subacute spongiform encephalopathies.
Spongiform encephalopathies in Cervidae.
Rev Sci Tech 1992 Jun;11(2):551-67
Williams ES, Young S
The known host range of naturally-occurring transmissible spongiform encephalopathies has expanded in recent years to include wild ruminants. Chronic wasting disease (CWD) occurs in mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus hemionus) and Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) in Colorado and Wyoming, United States of America. These species belong to the family Cervidae. Cases have occurred primarily in captive animals but a few affected free-ranging animals have been identified. Clinical disease in both species is characterised by progressive weight loss, behavioural alterations and excessive salivation. In deer polydipsia and polyuria also commonly occur. Significant lesions are confined to the central nervous system and consist of spongiform change in grey matter, intraneuronal vacuolation, astrocytosis and amyloid plaques. Inflammatory reaction is absent. The origin of this disease is not known. In contrast to the cases of spongiform encephalopathy recognised in five species of antelope (family Bovidae) in British zoological parks, which are an extension of the current bovine spongiform encephalopathy epizootic, CWD is not the result of food-borne exposure to the infectious agent. CWD appears to be maintained within captive populations by lateral and, possibly, maternal transmission. Spongiform encephalopathies in wild ruminants are currently geographically isolated and involve relatively small numbers of animals. However, these potentially transmissible diseases could be of greater importance in the future and should be viewed with concern in the light of international movements of wild ruminants and the current expansion of the game farming and ranching industry in many parts of the world.
Immunolocalization of scrapie amyloid (PrP27-30) in chronic wasting disease of Rocky Mountain elk and hybrids of captive mule deer and white-tailed deer.
Neurosci Lett 1991 May 27;126(2):195-8
Guiroy DC, Williams ES, Yanagihara R, Gajdusek DC
Scrapie amyloid-immunoreactive plaques are present in brain tissues of captive mule deer with chronic wasting disease (CWD), a progressive neurological disorder characterized neuropathologically by widespread spongiform change of the neuropil, intracytoplasmic vacuolation in neuronal perikarya and astrocytic hypertrophy and hyperplasia. We report here the immunolocalization of scrapie amyloid (PrP27-30) in plaques observed in brain tissues of Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) and hybrids of mule deer and white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) naturally affected with CWD. Similar findings have been shown in kuru, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and Gerstmann-Straussler syndrome in humans. Our data corroborate that CWD in Rocky Mountain elk and hybrids of mule deer and white-tailed deer belongs to the subacute spongiform virus encephalopathies (transmissible cerebral amyloidoses).
Topographic distribution of scrapie amyloid-immunoreactive plaques in chronic wasting disease in captive mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus hemionus).
Acta Neuropathol (Berl) 1991;81(5):475-8
Guiroy DC, Williams ES, Yanagihara R, Gajdusek DC
Chronic wasting disease (CWD), a progressive neurological disorder of captive mule deer, black-tailed deer, hybrids of mule deer and white-tailed deer and Rocky Mountain elk, is characterized neuropathologically by widespread spongiform change of the neuropil, intracytoplasmic vacuolation in neuronal perikarya and astrocytic hypertrophy and hyperplasia. We report the topographic distribution of amyloid plaques reactive to antibodies prepared against scrapie amyloid in CWD-affected captive mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus hemionus). Scrapie amyloid-immunoreactive plaques were found in the cerebral gray and white matter, in deep subcortical nuclei, in isolation or in clusters in areas of vacuolation, and perivascularly, in subpial and subependymal regions. In the cerebellum, immunoreactive amyloid plaques were observed in the molecular, pyramidal and granular layers. Scrapie amyloid-immunoreactive deposits were also seen in neuronal perikarya. Furthermore, amyloid plaques in CWD-affected captive mule deer were alcianophilic at 0.3 M magnesium chloride indicating the presence of weakly to moderately sulfated glycosaminoglycans. Our data corroborate that CWD in captive mule deer belongs to the subacute virus spongiform encephalopathies.

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Amyloid plaques in spongiform encephalopathy of mule deer.
J Comp Pathol 1985 Jan;95(1):1-5
Bahmanyar S, Williams ES, Johnson FB, Young S, Gajdusek DC
Amyloid plaques were demonstrable in central nervous system tissues of adult captive mule deer affected with chronic wasting disease, a transmissible primary spongiform encephalopathy. Plaques were detected in tissues of 13 of 21 (62 per cent) spontaneously affected animals from 2 to 4 years of age or older, but were not found in 16 unaffected deer of from a few months to 12 years of age.
Chronic wasting disease of captive mule deer: a spongiform encephalopathy.
J Wildl Dis 1980 Jan;16(1):89-98
Williams ES, Young S
In the past 12 years (1967-79) a syndrome we identify as chronic wasting disease has been observed in 53 mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus hemionus) and one black-tailed deer (Odocoileus hemionus columbianus) held in captivity in several wildlife facilities in Colorado and more recently in Wyoming. Clinical signs were seen in adult deer and included behavioral alterations, progressive weight loss and death in 2 weeks to 8 months. Gross necropsy findings included emaciation and excess rumen fluid admixed with sand and gravel. Consistent histopathologic change was limited to the central nervous system and characterized by widespread spongiform transformation of the neuropil, single of multiple intracytoplasmic vacuoles in neuronal perikaryons and intense astrocytic hypertrophy and hyperplasia. Presented is a clinical characterization of chronic wasting disease and pathologic evidence supporting the conclusion that the disease is a specific spontaneously occurring form of spongiform encephalopathy.



Elk & game farming in other states
Utah Fish and Game Dept
The state of Utah has little experience with big game farming. In an effort to understand elk and game farming, the Division has contacted other states that allow elk farming. The following are some of the problems other states associate with elk farming reported to the Division:
MONTANA
Karen Zachiem with Montana Parks and Wildlife reported that Montana allows game farming. Initial regulations were inadequate to protect the state's wildlife resources. The state has tried to tighten up regulations related to game farming, resulting in a series of lawsuits against the state from elk ranchers. Zachiem reported that the tightening of regulations was in response to the discovery of TB in wildlife (elk, deer, and coyotes) surrounding a TB infected game farm. TB has been found on several game farms in Montana. Also, they have had problems with wildlife entering game farms as well as game farm animals escaping the farms. Finally, there has been a growth in shooting ranches in Montana. Game farmers allow hunters to come into enclosures to kill trophy game farm animals, raising the issues of fair chase and hunting ethics.
WASHINGTON
Rolph Johnson with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, reported that Washington allows game farming, but it is strictly regulated to safeguard wildlife. Washington opposed the law when first proposed for the following reasons: introduction of disease and parasites; hybridization of wildlife species; habitat loss; health risks to humans, wildlife, and livestock; and state responsibility to recover or destroy escaped elk. Game farming is not cost effective due to the restrictions needed to prevent these problems.
NEW MEXICO
Jerry Macacchini, with New Mexico Game and Fish, reported that New Mexico has problems with game farming and a moratorium on elk and game farming has been imposed by the state at the request of its citizens. Problems identified in the moratorium were: escaped game farm animals; theft of native elk herds; and disease.
OREGON
Dan Edwards, with Oregon Fish and Wildlife, reported that Oregon has very little elk farming and is now prohibited by regulation. The elk farms that are in operation existed prior to the adoption of game farm regulations. Individuals who want to elk farm, must buy out an existing elk farm owner. Elk farms are no longer permitted due to, "...current and imminent threats to Oregon's native deer and elk herds and social and economic values.'' Oregon has documented numerous game farm animals that have escapeed from private game farms. Concerns about elk farming arose during public elk management meetings. The impacts of privately held cervids on publicly owned wildlife were a recurring issue throughout the elk management process. Key issues included: disease and parasites; escape and interbreeding of domestic animals with native wildlife; illegal kills for meat; and theft of public wildlife.
WYOMING
Harry Harju, assistant wildlife chief with Wyoming Fish and Game, reported that elk or game farming is now prohibited in Wyoming. Only one game ranch exists in Wyoming, which was operating before the passage of the law. The state of Wyoming was sued by several game breeders associations for not allowing elk farming. The game breeders lost their suit in the United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit. The court maintained that the state had authority to regulate commerce and protect wildlife. Wyoming has had problems with big game farming originating in surrounding states. Wyoming has documented the harvest of red deer and their hybrids during elk hunts on the Snowy Mountain range that borders Colorado. Wyoming speculates that the red deer were escapees from Colorado game farms. Hybridization is viewed as threat to the genetic integrity of Wyoming's wild elk population.

In a public hearing, the public voted against game farms in the state of Wyoming. Wyoming's Cattlemen's Association and Department of Agriculture opposed elk and big game farms, as well, particularly due to disease risks. Brucellosis is a major problem for wildlife and livestock in the Yellowstone Basin.
NEVADA
Nevada reports that big game farms are allowed in Nevada. Nevada has not had any problems as a result of big game farms. However, Nevada has only one big game farm in the entire state and it is a reindeer farm.
IDAHO
Wildlife Chief Tom Rienecker reported that Idaho Fish and Game once regulated elk farming in their state, but lost jurisdiction of elk farming to the Department of Agriculture as a result of pressure from elk farmers. Idaho has 20-30 big game ranches. Idaho has had problems with escapes and several law enforcement cases have been filed against suspects who have taken calves out of the wild for elk farming purposes. Disease has not been a problem for Idaho.
COLORADO
John Seidel, with Colorado Division of Wildlife, reported that the Division used to regulate big game farming until the big game breeders association petitioned for the Department of Agriculture to assume authority over big game farming because too many citations were issued to elk farms for violations. Colorado experienced numerous poaching incidents with elk calves from the wild and theft of whole herds of wild elk captured in private farms. Seidel reported that some of the larger "elk shooting ranches" have been investigated and charged with capturing wild herds of elk within the shooting preserve fences. Seidel reported that there have been documented problems with disease (TB); escaped hybrids and exotics; intrusion of rutting wild elk into game farms; massive recapture efforts for escapees and intruders; and loss of huge tracts of land fenced for shooting preserves/ranches. Based on their experiences, the Colorado Division of Wildlife wishes they did not have big game farms in Colorado. Seidel believes that CEBA would fight hard to open Utah to elk farming to provide a market for breeding stock in Utah ($3,000 & up for a bull and $8,000 & up for a breeding cow).
ARIZONA
The Arizona Game and Fish Department reports that elk farming is legal in Arizona but the agency would not allow it if they had to do it all over again. Arizona reported the loss of huge blocks of land to fencing and some disease problems.
ALBERTA, CANADA
Alberta has allowed elk farming for a number of years. To date, Alberta has spent $10,000,000 and destroyed 2,000 elk in an unsuccessful attempt to control the spread of tuberculosis. Based upon the game farming experiences of these states, their recommendation to Utah was not to allow elk farming.
OTHER
The Division has contacted several state and federal veterinarians. The opinions of some agricultural veterinarians differed from wildlife veterinarians. Some veterinarians endorsed elk farming with the right regulatory safeguards. Other veterinarians opposed elk farming due to the risks to wildlife and livestock. This issue needs a more comprehensive review. The Division also contacted a Special Agent with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service who conducted a covert investigation in Colorado to gather intelligence on elk farming and detect poaching activity of wild elk. Although poaching was not detected, the agent described his experience with pyramid schemes in elk sales; lack of a meat market; falsification of veterinarian records for farmed elk; escapes and intrusions between wild and captive elk; inadequate inspections by brand inspectors; transportation of TB infected elk; and the temperament of the elk themselves.

The Colorado Elk Breeders Association (CEBA) told the Division that CEBA did not approve of elk poaching and has turned in fellow elk farmers for poaching live elk calves from the wild.

CEBA told Utah legislators that the Colorado Division of Wildlife did not like elk ranching at first, but has come to see that elk farming is not as bad as they originally thought it would be. The Colorado Division of Wildlife disagreed with CEBA's perception of their relationship.
Keep 'em wild: Montana should ban canned hunts. Whitefish elk farm draws fire from hunters, biologists
By STEVE THOMPSON Missoula Independent, also the Whitefish Pilot 13 Sep 1998 Ph: 406/862-3795 Fax: 406/862-5344
"Although not everyone sees it the same way, Kalispell legislator Bob Spoklie says his controversial plan to develop an elk shooting gallery on 160 acres near Whitefish is rooted in the richest of Montana traditions-private property, pleasure and profit. Flaring like a bull elk in rut, Spoklie rages against those who disagree with his intentions. "These are not public wildlife," Spoklie told me angrily. "These are our animals and not anyone else's. We'll do as we please."

If his political opponents succeed in banning canned elk hunts, Spoklie warns, the next step will be to eliminate all public hunting. "That's the real agenda here," he said.

By contrast, next door in Wyoming, the suggestion that Rocky Mountain elk can be penned, hand-fed and then shot is more than a disgusting notion. It's illegal. In fact, the Cowboy State has gone so far as to prohibit all private game farms. Utah also prohibits canned elk hunts. Listening to Spoklie, one might be convinced that Utah and Wyoming are governed by a bunch of socialist, animal-rights activists. But the truth is those states are hardly run by left-wing zealots. Rather, lawmakers there have chosen to honor a Western tradition as deeply rooted as Spoklie's rather crass libertarianism.

This conservation heritage was pioneered by Theodore Roosevelt and others who established wildlife as a public commons. Wildlife laws in those states seek to protect hunters' fair-chase pursuit of healthy, free-ranging game. According to Dick Sadler, a long-time Democratic legislator in Wyoming now retired, elk hunting farms violate the very spirit of the West. In the 1970s, he joined forces with Republican John Turner to pass landmark legislation which banned game farms. Sadler and Turner had researched game farms in other states, and they came away with a bitter taste.

Spoklie, however, says elk and other big game have been converted to private livestock around the world. "Montana is so far behind that we think we're leading," he says. As the founder of the Montana Alternative Livestock Association, Spoklie is clearly frustrated about the clamor surrounding his attempts to domesticate elk in Whitefish. But then he has been one of the chief lobbyists for the game farm industry. Due in large part to his influence, Montana legislators have resisted attempts to copy Wyoming's game farm ban, including former Florence Senator Terry Klampe's proposed moratorium in 1995.

But Sadler, a lifelong hunter, offers the following evidence for what's wrong with canned hunting: "I saw a film of one of those canned hunts in Michigan, where the guys get up and have a big breakfast, put on their hunting clothes, walk outside, shoot the animals in an enclosure and then congratulate themselves. "That was one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen."

As the proposal to ban game farms wound through the Wyoming legislature, though, Sadler focused on more pragmatic arguments. Today, he still complains about the threat of disease transmission to wild animals, genetic pollution and loss of habitat to enclosures.

It was the Republican Turner, who later became George Bush's Fish and Wildlife Service director, who invoked the West's sporting heritage. "Turner's argument to the legislature was that you can't take a magnificent animal like an elk and allow some slob to shoot it inside a fence," Sadler says. Ultimately, most Wyoming legislators agreed that it just wasn't proper to domesticate and commercialize a wild animal like elk.

To Spoklie's dismay, the debate locally is getting louder, and his loudest opponents are sportsmen. Making the biggest waves are the Montana Wildlife Federation, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Orion: The Hunter's Institute, and a coalition of neighbors and hunters in the Whitefish area.

Orion's founder Jim Posewitz, a retired wildlife biologist, says canned hunts jeopardize public acceptance of the real thing. A leading advocate of "fair chase" hunting, which emphasizes the almost sacred relationship between hunter and prey, Posewitz argues that the majority of non-hunting Americans will tolerate hunting only if it is conducted with the highest ethics. "Game farms are an abomination," he says.

Spoklie, an appointed lawmaker who recently lost the Republican primary election, dismisses such statements as "differences of philosophy" that don't stack up against private property rights. If someone's willing to pay thousands of dollars to shoot a penned elk, then that's good both for him and Montana's economy, he says.

Karen Zackheim, game farm coordinator for the state Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, says the issue goes beyond philosophy. The most pressing statewide concern, she says, is chronic wasting, an elk version of mad cow disease. The little known disease, for which there is neither a test nor a cure, recently killed captive elk in several Western states and has spread to wild game in some places. Zackheim also has identified other potential problems with the Spoklie elk farm.

Spoklie makes it clear that Zackheim and others should butt out. And some Montana lawmakers seem willing to listen to him, having recently stripped state wildlife officials of some oversight responsibilities. Now, Spoklie would prefer even less state oversight, including his permit application currently under review.

For Montanans, ultimately, the choice looms between the competing visions offered by Bob Spoklie and our Western neighbors. Montana lawmakers should follow Wyoming's lead and remove our wildlife heritage from the private marketplace. For the sake of both the hunter and the hunted, private elk farms should be banned."



Scrapie/reindeer investigation
10 Apr 1996 ProMed Tom Warren Univ. of Oslo 0316 Oslo Norway Tel. 472 285 4794 Telefax 472 285 4605 [Guess what -- inconvenient native people depende on reindeer. Note transmission of CWD to goats above -- webmaster] 'We have been investigating problems related to sheep grazing on alpine ranges which are used by wild reindeer. So far, the main problem seems to be between sheep owners and reindeer hunters, rather than between the animals themselves. It is important to mention that sheep/livestock grazing is in no way new in the area and summer grazing is abundant; winter habitat is the bottleneck for the reindeer.

Private and public concern over the possible negative effects of sheep and sheep grazing on wild reindeer is not new; there has been competition for access to grazing resources/hunting for years. Since it is difficult on this particular range to argue that sheep "out-graze" reindeer, other possibilities such as disease/parasite transmission (from sheep to reindeer) have been advanced. When reports of scrapie among flocks of sheep which graze sympatrically with reindeer surfaced in 1994, concern for the reindeer was again voiced.

Last year, after a short review of existing literature, we concluded that there "seemed to be" a sufficient species barrier between sheep and reindeer, such that contraction of chronic wasting disease by the latter was unlikely. Inter-species transmission of prion diseases is apparently possible only through ingestion of infected tissue, especially brain/nerve tissue, which would not (likely) occur on the open range. This seems to be the concenses among reseachers working on CWD in the US. There is apparently no corelation between the occurence of CWD and sheep grazing. (Based on work in Colorado and Wyoming)

We found scrapie and the other prion disease so interesting that we wrote a popular account/description of scrapie and prions for the Norwegian Sheep and Goat Association's magazine. This article, written in Norwegian, appeared in February before the latest events in England. Since then, we have been inundated, locally, by requests for more information.

We still maintain that in an open range situation the chances of reindeer contracting CWD due to scrapie-infected sheep are, at best, remote. (Once scrapie is diagnosed, the flock is destroyed and no longer grazes on the open range. Uncertainty arises due to the long incubation times associated with prion diseases.) Our interest was, and remains, in the range management/ecolgy aspects of livestock/reindeer interactions; we are neither pathologists or veterinarians. We are currently following the debate here in Europe on BSE/CJD with great interest, however. Various theories circulate from week to week. Of greatest interest to us (and many others) is the question of the species barrier, and its role/function in extensive grazing situations.'
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Re: D Minus Comprehension

#410 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:49

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Re: Hansi Smurf Must Defend Hansi Kursch!

#411 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 14:53

Hansi Smurf wrote:
;;)))
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Genre: Speed Metal
Label: Virgin
Playing time: 67:06
Band homepage: Blind Guardian

Tracklist:
Precious Jerusalem
Battlefield
Under The Ice
Sadly Sings Destiny
The Maiden And The Minstrel Night
Wait For An Answer
The Soulforged
Age Of False Innocence
Punishment Divine
And Then There Was Silence

"A Night At The Opera" for sure has been one of the most eagerly anticipated albums of the year 2002, almost four years after the release of their last album "Nightfall In Middle-Earth" and BLIND GUARDIAN are amongst the most acclaimed Metal-bands worldwide by now.

The first thing to strike is (just as with the single "And Then There Was Silence") that the cover isn't Marschall. Paul Raymond Gregory surely is a great artist, but this artwork just doesn't fit BLIND GUARDIAN, sorry, not bad, but it just doesn't fit, no, no, no…

Anyway, the music. I have only read great reviews so far and as long-time BLIND GUARDIAN-fan I had been quite anxious to hear what the quartet has conceived for their by now seventh album. Basically they have continued down the way that the last albums already had paved and there is more of everything. More complexity, more bombast, more heaviness (in a certain way), more choirs, more playing time, just more…

Opener "Precious Jerusalem" appears pretty bulky at first listen, because of its rhythmic complexity and a few countering vocal/guitar-lines, which gets more and more accessible the more often you listen to it, but once you are in (and no, it is no "work" getting there) you'll be rewarded with a song that is so multi-faceted and layered and contains more elements in one song than some bands have on half an album. And still BLIND GUARDIAN manage to remain comprehensible. And the choirs - they always have been a trademark of the Krefeld-based band, but here they are fatter and bigger than ever. To describe BLIND GUARDIAN as "progressive" is not completely out of question.

After that "Battlefield" comes along a lot straighter, with a vocal duel between Hansi and the (biig) choir, classical BLIND GUARDIAN, just like "Under The Ice", which's guitar-line lends the song a pretty unusual note. Also rather atypical for the band is "Sadly Sings Destiny", which is surprisingly "rocky" in structure and guitars, just to culminate in the typical grand choir in the chorus.

"The Maiden And The Minstrel Knight" then has this certain medieval flair, which the band already is known for, starting out calmly, then rising in cadence and intensity, will be a live-favourite, I am sure, really good one! The following "Wait For An Answer" then again breaks out a little from the typical BG-sound, with the choir opposing Hansi's vocals in the choir. After that we get another killer in the typical BLIND GUARDIAN-vein: "The Soulforged", straight, with very strong chorus, would have fit on "Imaginations From The Other Side" as well. Also "Age Of False Innocence" hits into the same vein, maybe with a few calmer parts.

With "Punishment Divine" the pedal is put to the metal again, classical, fast, bombastic BLIND GUARDIAN with big choir, another reminiscence to "Imaginations…". And at the end we still have the more then 14-minute epos "And Then There Was Silence", I spare me the details and simply refer to my review of the single-CD…

Some might accuse BLIND GUARDIAN of having too much "more", that the album is over-produced and whatever else, but if you take the time for "A Night At The Opera", then you have to admit that the Germans once more have managed to reach their own set damn high standard within their very own style (if anybody tries to tell you the opposite, don't believe him!).

Get "A Night At The Opera" and give it a little time, because just like good wine this album sets free its class only with time and thanks to the many layers you will still discover new details and parts after the tenth listen, just like it should be! No matter what Wes will say, "A Night At The Opera" is another classic of the band's history, period!
Last edited by Barlog on 12 Jul 2013 15:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#412 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 15:01

End Of An Era wrote:i miss nikita... he was more coherent.
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"Walls of Jericho" remains one of the most popular entries in Helloween's lengthy 20+ years of existence. Compared to their future endeavors most of which are speedy but often very upbeat and sometimes downright syrupy melodic power metal, the Helloween here on "Walls of Jericho" presents an array of attacking, raw speed metal and straightforward heavy metal tracks. It remains loved and a number of genre fans are more than willing laud this album and decorate a review of it with something higher than a 90%. That's all well and good, but having said that, I don't like this album very much. There are some good moments here and there, and even a couple songs that are downright brilliant, but despite those numbers, there's too much of a mess going on here. I'd stop right here and say try "Gambling With The Devil" instead, but I'm here now so I may as well bitch about this thing.

Let's go over the band first, what do you say? Frontman and guitarist Kai Hansen leads the reigns. One of the few aspects of this album that pick is that many often find Hansen's vocal work weak and even at times annoying; well partly just go against the masses' opinions, I must disagree. Sure he's more amateurish here than his stronger, more balanced work later work in Gamma Ray, but the guy's passion and energy shine through, plus a dig some of the shrieks he lets loose here and there. Not content to be a simple vocalist, Hansen combines forces with Michael Weikath to create a strong guitar duo. Their work together is typically pretty damn good on here, especially when they go into their extended solos on stuff like "Ride The Sky" or "Phantoms of Death". Bass is provided by Markus Grosskopf, whose six string is often high in the mix, sometimes too high, and not for the better. I can't stand his bass tone on here; it's so loud and...well...it sounds like a damn fart! I mean come on! Finally drumming is courtesy of the late Ingo Schwichtenberg; he performs pretty strongly and fluidly, with a mix of your typical double bass speed metal bashing and some really jackhammering fills.


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One of the first big issues I have with "Walls of Jericho" is the production. Even in its remastered state many songs sound very muddy, with a number of instruments becoming buried while other are haphazardly overproduced (THE DAMN BASS!). Many songs which may have been half tolerable are now partly garbled messes. Then even if the production was more solid (or at least charmingly raw a la "Show No Mercy" or "Breaker"), that still wouldn't stop a number of these songs from being totally uninspired or just plain stupid! Some songs are tolerable, like "Guardians" or closing epic "How Many Tears?", but at the most are pretty much forgettable after one listen. Then some songs are ruined by some half-baked idea gone awry. "Reptile" is solely interesting for its interesting proto-thrash structure, but it otherwise utterly sucks. Why? The lyrics. The lyrics to "Reptile" are immature, novelty gross-out stupidity, where Helloween tries out some of their trademark humor but failing miserably; this isn't "Rise And Fall" cleverness we got here, oh no! I don't wanna hear about people running to take a shit or getting jacked off by hookers! Then "Gorgar" has those dumb lyrics about a fucking pinball machine (nothing screams METAL like pinball!), and the cool Accept-like riffing and tempo of the song almost save it until the chorus pops up, featuring some of the most embarrassing gang vocals I ever heard in a metal song. "Heavy Metal (Is The Law)" is almost good, but who's idea was it to add in those lame "live crowd" sound effects that totally fuck the song's mood?

But at the end of the day, I still like Helloween. I like a great number of their songs from all across their studio albums, even if I don't personally hold the group in my higher tier of favorites like Accept or Grave Digger when it comes to German metal. I can say happily that "Walls of Jericho" falls into this regard, for this album has three (four if you have the version I have) saving grace tracks to it. After the pointless, short instrumental title track, we are greeted by "Ride The Sky". "Ride The Sky" is one of the finest speed metal songs ever recorded, right up there with "Thundersteel", "Painkiller" and "Fast As A Shark". The riffing is neck-snapping in its aggression, the extended solo intricate, memorable and never boring, and the chorus is almost shattering in its elegance; awesome, awesome stuff! But for as fantastic as that song is, "Phantoms of Death" is almost even better. Playing like a more mid-paced brother to "Ride The Sky", this punishing epic has a number of memorable riffs, including a chilling keyboard riff during the verses, various tempo changes, and another extended, blazing solo. "Metal Invaders" isn't nearly as mesmerizing as those last two, but it's a pretty fun song and at least lacks any stupid moments. Lastly, if you have the version I have, you'll get the single "Judas" as a bonus track; it's a pretty good number, with a nifty outro, a mean, blazing chorus and a solid, up-tempo atmosphere.

Overall, I find "Walls of Jericho" to be one of the most unjustly overrated albums in the world of German metal. The band performs often quite smoothly, though the bass gets on my nerves sometimes, but most of the songs are here are ruined by just plain bad decisions, whether it be lame lyrics, a bad chorus or just a general lack of creativity behind them. The muddy, garbled production doesn't help matters either. The average metalhead might probably enjoy this more than myself, but I personally recommend downloads of "Ride The Sky", "Phantoms of Death" and "Judas" instead. I say download the songs that have some dignity and integrity behind them and fucking be done with it!

Got riffs!? - 98%
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(My version of this album is the 2006 rereleased / expanded addition)

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Before I begin I shall attempt to clear the air; although I do enjoy power metal I am not what one would call an avid power metal fan. This was my most recent acquisition from the Helloween legacy (I started with KotSK pt 2, and although it got several spins and still receives somewhat sporadic attention from me, it is far from my favourite record) and i must say that had I started my journey into Kai Hansen's (I don't care if he left over 20 years ago, as far as i'm concerned Kai will always be part of Helloween) musical endeavours with this record I would most probably own a lot more Helloween and a lot more Gamma Ray.

Firstly, to validate my opening statement, this IS NOT a power metal album. Sure, there are signs of what is to come (Walls of Jericho/Ride the Sky and Guardians definitely have signs of a future sway towards power metal), but for the most part this is a pure speed metal album, akin with Battalions of Fear and Follow the Blind. As predominantly a thrash / speed / technical thrash / anything-to-do-with-melodic-fast-music fan this record really appealed to me. Right from its inception, even with the humorous little introductory phase leading into 'Starlight', I instantly saw similarities with Blind Guardian's 'Battalions of Fear' (which is arguably one of the best speed metal records ever made, but that's another story) and as such my attention was instantly solidified. What was to follow was over an hour of pure speed metal bliss. A constant barrage of melodic riffs, dual guitar solos, catchy (and highly audible) bass lines and drumming that would make any thrash / speed enthusiast instantly pull out the air-drumsticks and invisible double-kick pedals.

Vocally, I must say, Kai Hansen is my preferred choice over all that has been, that is, and is to come, from Helloween. Yes, I know, I know, Michael Kiske was a genius, but for what this album is trying to do Kai's vocals really work well. Once again (forgive me for reverting attention back to Blind Guardian), it is comparable to Hansi's vocals on Battalions of Fear; though he had not yet come into his own, any change to his sound would most definitely detract from the sound of the record as a whole. Kai's raspy, yet still powerful at times, voice really gives this record that juvenile 80's sound, and that, my friends, is something that no studio can produce in the present day, no matter how hard they try (please remember that Lars Ulrich...).

This record is like an artillery barrage from an 19th century cannon, there are so many different things being thrown at you here that one cannot help but be paralysed by the incredible sound..; Round shot of that 80's Germanic speed metal sound; Grapeshot belting you with a barrage of melodic riffs and dual guitar solos; exploding shells of catchy bass lines; and, to top it off, a shower of incendiary in the form of incredible drumming. The sound of this record truly is something special, and I guarantee that if one can listen to this record without getting a certain riff, or even bass line, stuck in ones head then I will eat my own foot (an interesting sales pitch, Kai should have used that one after releasing this record).

As with all genres of metal, what appeals to one may not necessarily appeal to another (as with the constant Black metal 'classics' that, no matter how much people rave about them, I think sound awful), but, and I say this with the utmost sincerity and with a fervent commitment to impartiality, I cannot see how anyone would not appreciate what this record delivers. This album has pretty much been on repeat for the last week or so (with temporary shifts to Megadeth's most recent effort and Stormwarrior's 'Heading Northe') and I, no matter how hard I try, cannot find one second that fails to deliver that sweet, sweet feeling of heavy metal bliss! Any fan of fast music, melodic music, metal music, (hell, music in general) really should give this record a go, because i guarantee that it will not fail to impress!

Highlights - EVERYTHING!

Super-highlights - Starlight, Murderer, Cry for Freedom, Metal Invaders, Heavy Metal (Is the Law), Gorgar, How Many Tears.

Seriously people, buy this record, it will be like getting your record player and incredibly hot girlfriend that it will want to fornicate with every waking moment.... It's really THAT good!

Got riffs!? - 98%
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(My version of this album is the 2006 rereleased / expanded addition)

Before I begin I shall attempt to clear the air; although I do enjoy power metal I am not what one would call an avid power metal fan. This was my most recent acquisition from the Helloween legacy (I started with KotSK pt 2, and although it got several spins and still receives somewhat sporadic attention from me, it is far from my favourite record) and i must say that had I started my journey into Kai Hansen's (I don't care if he left over 20 years ago, as far as i'm concerned Kai will always be part of Helloween) musical endeavours with this record I would most probably own a lot more Helloween and a lot more Gamma Ray.

Firstly, to validate my opening statement, this IS NOT a power metal album. Sure, there are signs of what is to come (Walls of Jericho/Ride the Sky and Guardians definitely have signs of a future sway towards power metal), but for the most part this is a pure speed metal album, akin with Battalions of Fear and Follow the Blind. As predominantly a thrash / speed / technical thrash / anything-to-do-with-melodic-fast-music fan this record really appealed to me. Right from its inception, even with the humorous little introductory phase leading into 'Starlight', I instantly saw similarities with Blind Guardian's 'Battalions of Fear' (which is arguably one of the best speed metal records ever made, but that's another story) and as such my attention was instantly solidified. What was to follow was over an hour of pure speed metal bliss. A constant barrage of melodic riffs, dual guitar solos, catchy (and highly audible) bass lines and drumming that would make any thrash / speed enthusiast instantly pull out the air-drumsticks and invisible double-kick pedals.

Vocally, I must say, Kai Hansen is my preferred choice over all that has been, that is, and is to come, from Helloween. Yes, I know, I know, Michael Kiske was a genius, but for what this album is trying to do Kai's vocals really work well. Once again (forgive me for reverting attention back to Blind Guardian), it is comparable to Hansi's vocals on Battalions of Fear; though he had not yet come into his own, any change to his sound would most definitely detract from the sound of the record as a whole. Kai's raspy, yet still powerful at times, voice really gives this record that juvenile 80's sound, and that, my friends, is something that no studio can produce in the present day, no matter how hard they try (please remember that Lars Ulrich...).

This record is like an artillery barrage from an 19th century cannon, there are so many different things being thrown at you here that one cannot help but be paralysed by the incredible sound..; Round shot of that 80's Germanic speed metal sound; Grapeshot belting you with a barrage of melodic riffs and dual guitar solos; exploding shells of catchy bass lines; and, to top it off, a shower of incendiary in the form of incredible drumming. The sound of this record truly is something special, and I guarantee that if one can listen to this record without getting a certain riff, or even bass line, stuck in ones head then I will eat my own foot (an interesting sales pitch, Kai should have used that one after releasing this record).

As with all genres of metal, what appeals to one may not necessarily appeal to another (as with the constant Black metal 'classics' that, no matter how much people rave about them, I think sound awful), but, and I say this with the utmost sincerity and with a fervent commitment to impartiality, I cannot see how anyone would not appreciate what this record delivers. This album has pretty much been on repeat for the last week or so (with temporary shifts to Megadeth's most recent effort and Stormwarrior's 'Heading Northe') and I, no matter how hard I try, cannot find one second that fails to deliver that sweet, sweet feeling of heavy metal bliss! Any fan of fast music, melodic music, metal music, (hell, music in general) really should give this record a go, because i guarantee that it will not fail to impress!

Highlights - EVERYTHING!

Super-highlights - Starlight, Murderer, Cry for Freedom, Metal Invaders, Heavy Metal (Is the Law), Gorgar, How Many Tears.

Seriously people, buy this record, it will be like getting your record player and incredibly hot girlfriend that it will want to fornicate with every waking moment.... It's really THAT good!

Where it all began... - 97%
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So this is where it all began. Understandably Helloween had already released an EP by this point and had been featured on the Death Metal compilation, but this is where it truly all started. By that I not only am talking about Helloween's career, but power metal in general. Now I'm not saying this is a power metal album. No, this falls under the genre of speed metal. But all of the hints are already there. With the release of this album, power metal was sure to come soon, and the next release of the Keeper of the Seven Keys made it a reality.

Not only was this album a critical step in the formation of the entire genre of power metal, but this is also quite an amazing demonstration of speed metal! Take the guitars of Hansen and Weikath, add in the raspy, nasal-like vocals of Hansen, back that up with the insane drumming of Schwichtenberg (R.I.P.), throw in the exemplary bass work of Grosskopf, and you have yourself one fine speed metal masterpiece!

The opening instrumental "Walls of Jericho" leads right into the title track which opens up the album as perhaps its best track. This song is a speed metal anthem and Kai's screaming of "Ride the sky!" is sure to bring any metal fan shivers up their spine. The next song, "Reptile", is the weakest on the album, but still a fun speed metal song to listen to although nothing too special about it. This is followed by "Guardians" which brings the bar right back up near the level of "Ride the Sky". The bassline in this track really helps to complete the song and puts this as another highlight of the album. "Phantoms of Death" is another great speed metal song with a memorable riff. Following this is another great speed metal anthem, "Metal Invaders". "Gorgar" is an odd song about a pinball machine, but it works! The classical theme brought in by the solo is really great, and the chorus will make you laugh every time. After this is "Heavy Metal (Is the Law)" which has a similar sound to "Ride the Sky", but the chorus is totally different and shouts the truth of heavy metal! The album is capped off with its longest song, a seven and a half minute masterpiece entitled "How Many Tears". This song sums up the album as a great speed metal song with an awesome solo section in the middle.

All in all this is a fantastic speed metal album that brought attention to Helloween just before their release of the first true power metal album, and thus was pivotal in the genre's creation. In addition, this is a great album to rock out to and listen to some awesome speed metal! Not one song on this album is uninteresting, with "Reptile" being the only one that isn't totally awesome from start to finish. Up the irons, and happy helloween!
Last edited by Barlog on 12 Jul 2013 18:38, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: A Legitimate Farewell???

#413 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 15:02

Hansi Smurf wrote::cry:

I can't believe it! I came here for to aid in Lord Protecting the Global Mass once more, and have found myself with, literally, NOTHING, for to boast about!

I'm really quite upset! What has happened to my precious IQ??? Have I gone senile???

Hmm..?

Well, I guess I'll leave now, and not come back! Maybe forever! (sniffle)

And just so all the boys and girls know? Tah me? BLIND GUARDIAN AND COMPANY will always be called, CODENAME: LORD PROTECTOR !

Love, Keep Loving!

:evil:
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Power metal doesn’t get any better than a classic album by Helloween. Each of their first three albums are the definition of what made power metal. Unlike the two Keeper albums, however, Walls of Jericho is a significantly different piece of work. Instead of the legendary Michael Kiske, we have guitarist Kai Hansen on vocals. Not only does Walls have a different voice, but it also has a rawer sound to it than the Keeper albums, probably why the album is also considered a speed metal album. If you want to call it power, speed, or both doesn’t matter; Walls of Jericho is a kickass album.

Helloween define speed/power metal on this album with a juiced up Iron Maiden sound. Basically Iron Maiden with the speed and aggression of Metallica. That is seen with thrashy and fast riffs plus twin guitar harmonies and very epic, yet in-your-face vocals. Kai Hansen doesn’t get much credit as a singer in my opinion. He pulls off some mean vocals here with a lot of Halford inspired screams. This would be the only album Kai would sing for the band, though he picks up the mic about ten years later with his current project, Gamma Ray. Michael Weikath works with Kai on guitar and wow. Some great guitar work is featured on this album. Each song has fast, thrashy riffs, beatiful guitar harmonies, and blazing solos. On the kit is late drummer Ingo Switchenberg and holy shit this guy can pound. Right up there with Dave Lombardo (well not really but close enough)! Bass player Markus Grosskopf, who, with Weikath, is the only original member left in the band, is a fucking beast. Every song features complex basslines and fills and sometimes even melodies. VERY underrated bassist. I’d call this one of my favorite band line ups ever.

I have the extended rerelease of the album, so it includes the five tracks from the “Helloween” EP released in 1984. Starlight opens up with a goofy intro with a man watching TV and burping before Kai enters in with a wailling scream right before the rest of the band joins in and follows with a BADASS riff. When I first heard this riff I thought, “HOLY SHIT!” and was head banging like crazy to it. Why couldn’t they play that riff again in this song?! The rest of the song is speed fucking metal that continues to the following track, Murderer. Murderer also has haunting chants in the chorus and Kai ends the song with a great scream. Just listen to the lyrics:

“MURDERER! In every town.”

“MURDERER! To the whole world.”

“MURDERER! You’re on the run.”

“MURDERER! You’ll have to kill…AGAIN!”

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Next is Warrior. Warrior opens up with another ass kicking riff and later features a sweet lead melody. Kai’s vocals here are just plain creepy. One of my favorite Helloween songs EVER! Victim of Fate is even better with a riff that is Judas Priest’s “Breaking The Law” on speed. About three minutes of this song is soft with Kai speaking in a haunting voice and ending the song with one of THE GREATEST FUCKING SCREAMS IN ALL OF MUSIC!!

Cry For Freedom is different, as it starts with some acoustic guitars and melodic soloing. Later on, this song is another speed metal mania. Kai’s vocals are a little bit whiney here but it’s not that bad. After this song, we go into the actual Walls of Jericho album with the title track.

“Walls of Jericho” is a short instrumental with an orchestra perfoming “London Bridge Is Falling Down.” Did I mention that Helloween have always had the tendancy to be silly and cheesey? Well this is just the beginning. “Walls of Jericho” goes straight into “Ride The Sky,” a speed metal frenzy, probably the fastest song on the album. You can see the Judas Priest influence in this song for the vocals alone, Kai screams a lot like Rob Halford here and there is more dual soloing as well. Next is “Reptile.” This song sounds almost more thrash than speed metal with a powerful Metallica style riff. Marcus really shines on bass here during the pre-chorus. But remember I mentioned the cheese would get better? It does right here with the lyrics to “Reptile.” Classic power metal.

“Guardians” is probably the most emotional track on the album. It’s not a ballad, it just has a lot of melodic singing and soloing with a wonderful chorus. It’s songs like this that make me wish Kai stayed in the band and still sang (but we have Gamma Ray for that). “Phantoms of Death” contains more melodic singing but also features a kickass singalong chorus!

“Phantoms! Of death!”

“Phantoms! Of death!”

“Phantoms” also features a great bridge section with some harmonized tapping and Ingo pulling off a crazy drum beat. I miss this guy (RIP!). Another speed metal classic follows up with “Metal Invaders.” As the title suggests, this song is about heavy fucking metal, a classic theme in all of heavy metal. Much like “Ride the Sky,” “Metal Invaders” opens with a speedy riff. One of my favorite pre-choruses is on this song. It’s just so haunting and goes perfect with the metal anthem. Cheese returns once again with “Gorgar,” a song about a pinball machine. A fucking pinball machine! How silly does that sound?! But hey, it’s power metal. It opens up with some sweet arpeggios and has another thrashy riff and memorable chorus.

“Gorgar will eat you! GORGAR! Man you’ll never win! Hey!”

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Oh hell yeah! Cheesy, yet badass. Heavy metal is worshipped once again with “Heavy Metal (Is The Law)” showing Helloween’s loyalty to the art of metal. Ingo fucking rips on this song with an intro that gives Dave Lombardo a run for his money! He and Marcus once again shine in a speedy breakdown with both playing solo before a crowding chanting along with Kai to HEEEEAVY METAL! God, Helloween can’t get enough of that cheese! Once again the guitar work shines with a great twin guitar harmony before Marcus and Ingo jam. The main riff is another speedfest and rivals “Ride The Sky” for fastest track on the album. Walls of Jerhico closes with “How Many Tears.” This song is probably one of the best on the album. It has a little bit of each element the album contains: fast and speedy riffs, melodic singing, guitar harmonies, Marcus’ great bass playing, Ingo pounding on those drums, a beatiful interlude, and has some lyrics that aren’t cheesy, but are about freedom. While being varied doesn’t automatically mean a song is superior to a generic one, it helps define what makes “How Many Tears” a power metal classic. As an additional bonus track, “Judas” is off another EP. The chorus here is another great one, although that is really the only great thing about this song. It’s good, but nothing amazing and kind of a bad way to end the album. Other than that, it’s still worth listening to.

Walls of Jericho is essential. End of story. Anyone who automatically shuns it just because it’s power metal is just plain ignorant. Yeah it’s got the cheese and sillyness, but it has something that Dragonforce don’t have: balls, and I mean old school in your face balls. A power metal masterpiece.

soso production and inconsisent vocals yet great - 90%
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When reviewing Walls Of Jericho one can retrospectively look back at this marvellous piece of metal in two ways. The first way would be checking out Helloween before the Keeper albums. In other words comparing this early heavy stuff to their breakthrough material. Or secondly, just imagine it’s 1985 and this is a band with a first debut full length.

I’m going to do my best reviewing this album without thinking about the Keeper albums and for instance the briliant live version of How Many Tears on Live In the UK with Kiske on vocals. Ah well. I'll come to that in the end anyway.

Ok, it is 1985 and you hear this album. It’s so obvious the sound is a combination of the first two Metallica albums and the best works from Judas Priest with a hint of Iron Maiden thrown in.

Opener “Ride The Sky” is superb. Double bass assault and thrashing simple riffs. The songs rages on and is catchy as well. Notable is the bassguitar with some nice fills and the skrieking of Kai Hansen of Vocals. He sounds young, has a funny nasal tone in his voice as if he’s having a cold yet he sounds very enjoyable and powerful enough to be the icing on the cake. The harmonies and leads in the middle of the song are the perfect blend between Priest/Maiden and speed metal / proto-thrash. A superb opening.

Another highlight is closing song “How Many Tears” which is comparible to “Ride The Sky” but lengthier and with a long instrumental breakdown in the middle. These two songs are easily the most powerful best songs on the album.

“Guardians” is a pretty solid up tempo speed meal song with some nice melodies and riffs on guitar. Hansen’s vocals however sound less powerful and he has trouble hitting some notes. The chorus however is immensly strong and catchy and makes you forget all the lesser aspects of the song! Once again the bassguitar has some nice fills.

I’ve never been to sure about certain aspects of “Heavy Metal Is the Law”. It is a studio recording with live audience mixed in at certain points. In the middle of the song there is a sing-a-long section (the “Heavy Metal, Hey!!, Heavy Metal, Hey!!” part) which is a bit cheesy. The rest of the song however is pretty damn good. Just as fast as the earlier mentioned Ride The Sky and How Many Tears and with a strong chorus and an even stronger solo plus harmony section.

“Metal Invaders” is the weakest of the fast songs here. The falsetto vocals on the prechorus are a bit weak and the chorus itself not quite as strong as other songs. Pretty nice harmonies in the middle though.

So what about the slower songs then? Well “Phantoms of Death” steals the show here. Even the keyboard on the verses does not feel out of place. A high amount of Iron Maiden is thrown in. Check out the drums on the pre-chorus for instance and tell me that isn’t inspired by Phantom Of The Opera! The second part of the solo section is marvellous. As a whole this is an very good song.

“Gorgar” is a pretty weak song. At too many points the band tries to riffwise mix Metallica’s Creeping Death with Judas Priest but fails to deliver a memorable song. The chorus is fairly weak. The “Wastin' money for fun every night Livin' for today no thoughts for tomorrow” bridge is such a clear case of Judas Priest plagiarism, this will cost them many points for the album. “Reptile” is almost just as bad as Gorgar really. Some second rate Priest imitations and a very poor chorus result in a failing song.

In the end we have two awesome songs, three very good songs, one case of ‘soso’ and two horrible songs. So obviously we can still talk about a successful full length which could have even better.

And now for the other point of view…
Compared to Keeper the drums sound under-produced and extremely flat. The guitars are a bit too sludgy at times and he vocal performance is really lacking at certain points. As said earlier when you listen to the live version of How Many Tears on Live In the UK album with Kiske on vocals one can hear how good this song actually is but how flat and dull the production of Walls Of Jericho in fact is. Kai Hansen sounds better these days singing in Gamma Ray than he did on Walls On Jericho. Kiske’s vocals obviously could have made the awesome songs on this album even divine. Just imagine re-recorded versions of Ride The Sky, How Many Tears and Phantoms Of Death with him on vocals…ouch! Even God would buy that album.

However if you compare the best of this album to later ‘soso’ albums like Master Of The Rings or of course the weird experiments on Chamelon and the disasters called The Legacy and Gambling With the Devil, this album obviously stands firm with ease. So firm no bulldozer nor even MOAB could get it of its place.

So From both points of view an excellent album yet with obvious flaws

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soso production and inconsisent vocals yet great - 90%
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When reviewing Walls Of Jericho one can retrospectively look back at this marvellous piece of metal in two ways. The first way would be checking out Helloween before the Keeper albums. In other words comparing this early heavy stuff to their breakthrough material. Or secondly, just imagine it’s 1985 and this is a band with a first debut full length.

I’m going to do my best reviewing this album without thinking about the Keeper albums and for instance the briliant live version of How Many Tears on Live In the UK with Kiske on vocals. Ah well. I'll come to that in the end anyway.

Ok, it is 1985 and you hear this album. It’s so obvious the sound is a combination of the first two Metallica albums and the best works from Judas Priest with a hint of Iron Maiden thrown in.

Opener “Ride The Sky” is superb. Double bass assault and thrashing simple riffs. The songs rages on and is catchy as well. Notable is the bassguitar with some nice fills and the skrieking of Kai Hansen of Vocals. He sounds young, has a funny nasal tone in his voice as if he’s having a cold yet he sounds very enjoyable and powerful enough to be the icing on the cake. The harmonies and leads in the middle of the song are the perfect blend between Priest/Maiden and speed metal / proto-thrash. A superb opening.

Another highlight is closing song “How Many Tears” which is comparible to “Ride The Sky” but lengthier and with a long instrumental breakdown in the middle. These two songs are easily the most powerful best songs on the album.

“Guardians” is a pretty solid up tempo speed meal song with some nice melodies and riffs on guitar. Hansen’s vocals however sound less powerful and he has trouble hitting some notes. The chorus however is immensly strong and catchy and makes you forget all the lesser aspects of the song! Once again the bassguitar has some nice fills.

I’ve never been to sure about certain aspects of “Heavy Metal Is the Law”. It is a studio recording with live audience mixed in at certain points. In the middle of the song there is a sing-a-long section (the “Heavy Metal, Hey!!, Heavy Metal, Hey!!” part) which is a bit cheesy. The rest of the song however is pretty damn good. Just as fast as the earlier mentioned Ride The Sky and How Many Tears and with a strong chorus and an even stronger solo plus harmony section.

“Metal Invaders” is the weakest of the fast songs here. The falsetto vocals on the prechorus are a bit weak and the chorus itself not quite as strong as other songs. Pretty nice harmonies in the middle though.

So what about the slower songs then? Well “Phantoms of Death” steals the show here. Even the keyboard on the verses does not feel out of place. A high amount of Iron Maiden is thrown in. Check out the drums on the pre-chorus for instance and tell me that isn’t inspired by Phantom Of The Opera! The second part of the solo section is marvellous. As a whole this is an very good song.

“Gorgar” is a pretty weak song. At too many points the band tries to riffwise mix Metallica’s Creeping Death with Judas Priest but fails to deliver a memorable song. The chorus is fairly weak. The “Wastin' money for fun every night Livin' for today no thoughts for tomorrow” bridge is such a clear case of Judas Priest plagiarism, this will cost them many points for the album. “Reptile” is almost just as bad as Gorgar really. Some second rate Priest imitations and a very poor chorus result in a failing song.

In the end we have two awesome songs, three very good songs, one case of ‘soso’ and two horrible songs. So obviously we can still talk about a successful full length which could have even better.

And now for the other point of view…
Compared to Keeper the drums sound under-produced and extremely flat. The guitars are a bit too sludgy at times and he vocal performance is really lacking at certain points. As said earlier when you listen to the live version of How Many Tears on Live In the UK album with Kiske on vocals one can hear how good this song actually is but how flat and dull the production of Walls Of Jericho in fact is. Kai Hansen sounds better these days singing in Gamma Ray than he did on Walls On Jericho. Kiske’s vocals obviously could have made the awesome songs on this album even divine. Just imagine re-recorded versions of Ride The Sky, How Many Tears and Phantoms Of Death with him on vocals…ouch! Even God would buy that album.

However if you compare the best of this album to later ‘soso’ albums like Master Of The Rings or of course the weird experiments on Chamelon and the disasters called The Legacy and Gambling With the Devil, this album obviously stands firm with ease. So firm no bulldozer nor even MOAB could get it of its place.

So From both points of view an excellent album yet with obvious flaws

An Obvious Classic. - 93%
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Not more than a few months after releasing a groundbreaking debut EP bearing their name, Helloween offered up another uncompromising piece of speed metal madness in “Walls of Jericho”, which expanded upon the arsenal of ideas held in common between founder Kai Hansen and almost as prolific songwriter Michael Weikath. Where the EP contained 5 tracks dominated by speed and occasionally featured a slow interlude of some sort, here we see the band evolve into a more varied beast, offering up some slower songs to complement the obligatory power metal anthems that expand upon the precedents set by Judas Priest, Riot, Motorhead, and Iron Maiden.

The album kicks off with a restatement of the famed Silver Shamrock theme, now set to a synthesized trumpet arrangement followed by what sounds like the collapsing of the great Walls of Jericho, obviously warning of an impending storm. Sure enough, the most ambitious and riff dominated speed metal song of its time “Ride the Sky” follows, featuring one of Kai Hansen’s greatest vocal performances to date. Where on the EP, his voice was quite nasal and a bit off center at times, here his voice is much more focused, though still quite rough and scratchy. “Reptile” and “Guardians” are Weikath offerings that show an expansion of the band’s sound. The former is a slower metal track that reeks of Priest worship, although with a much more active bass and a slightly less overpowering voice. The latter is a blue print for the modern power metal anthem heard by the likes of Stratovarius and Freedom Call, featuring a happy chorus in a major key and plenty of double bass pedal work.

“Phantoms of Death” features an opening riff quite reminiscent of Maiden’s “Two Minutes to Midnight”, both of which probably took their cues from Riot. There is some keyboard usage on here, but it is mainly atmospheric and bolsters the guitars rather than fights them. The early speed metal classic “Metal Invaders” that appeared on the famed Death Metal compilation comes next with speed riffs blazing, although stylistically the song sounds more like what appeared on the EP, it is not at all out of place. “Gorgar” is a rather humorous take on the subject of arcade game addiction, featuring a slow quasi-Maiden inspired intro and a rather appropriate quotation of Grieg’s “Hall of the Mountain King” later in the song. “Heavy Metal (Is the Law)” reeks of Manowar’s approach to glorifying the genre lyrically. It is performed live and features and extended drum solo and some fancy bass work. Michael Weikath gives the album a final point of lyrical contrast with a socially conscious speed anthem in “How Many Tears”, which highlights another brilliant Kai Hansen vocal performance.

Much like the EP that preceded it, this album has its share of flaws in the production department. Although the vocals are a good deal more precise, they are still a bit buried under an overpowering wall of rhythm guitars and drums. Likewise the lead guitars a still too quiet, and on “Phantoms of Death” the keyboards have a hard time remaining audible. Marcus’ bass is more active and consequently is also easier to hear, although it lacks the clear definition that would later be realized on the Keeper albums.

Although many have drawn a lot of attention to this album’s weaknesses, a clear sense of perspective should be applied to this opus. It is an innovative work that broke down the barriers between speed and melody, which separated the sometimes fast NWOBHM acts from the faster Punk Rock acts that put aggression ahead of musicality. Blind Guardian and every other Power Metal act that currently shares the scene with these pioneers owe their existence to this album and the ones that followed it and built upon this more primitive yet forward looking approach to metal. If you liked the early Speed/Power style where aggression was held in common with its Thrash cousin, this album will not let you down. Although I recommend getting the album without all the bonus stuff on it, no matter which version you attain, the 9 songs contained within have an ebb and flow that is quite different from the other stuff surrounding it on the newer release. Keep this in mind as you experience this dated yet timeless piece of power metal history.

An Obvious Classic. - 93%
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Not more than a few months after releasing a groundbreaking debut EP bearing their name, Helloween offered up another uncompromising piece of speed metal madness in “Walls of Jericho”, which expanded upon the arsenal of ideas held in common between founder Kai Hansen and almost as prolific songwriter Michael Weikath. Where the EP contained 5 tracks dominated by speed and occasionally featured a slow interlude of some sort, here we see the band evolve into a more varied beast, offering up some slower songs to complement the obligatory power metal anthems that expand upon the precedents set by Judas Priest, Riot, Motorhead, and Iron Maiden.


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The album kicks off with a restatement of the famed Silver Shamrock theme, now set to a synthesized trumpet arrangement followed by what sounds like the collapsing of the great Walls of Jericho, obviously warning of an impending storm. Sure enough, the most ambitious and riff dominated speed metal song of its time “Ride the Sky” follows, featuring one of Kai Hansen’s greatest vocal performances to date. Where on the EP, his voice was quite nasal and a bit off center at times, here his voice is much more focused, though still quite rough and scratchy. “Reptile” and “Guardians” are Weikath offerings that show an expansion of the band’s sound. The former is a slower metal track that reeks of Priest worship, although with a much more active bass and a slightly less overpowering voice. The latter is a blue print for the modern power metal anthem heard by the likes of Stratovarius and Freedom Call, featuring a happy chorus in a major key and plenty of double bass pedal work.

“Phantoms of Death” features an opening riff quite reminiscent of Maiden’s “Two Minutes to Midnight”, both of which probably took their cues from Riot. There is some keyboard usage on here, but it is mainly atmospheric and bolsters the guitars rather than fights them. The early speed metal classic “Metal Invaders” that appeared on the famed Death Metal compilation comes next with speed riffs blazing, although stylistically the song sounds more like what appeared on the EP, it is not at all out of place. “Gorgar” is a rather humorous take on the subject of arcade game addiction, featuring a slow quasi-Maiden inspired intro and a rather appropriate quotation of Grieg’s “Hall of the Mountain King” later in the song. “Heavy Metal (Is the Law)” reeks of Manowar’s approach to glorifying the genre lyrically. It is performed live and features and extended drum solo and some fancy bass work. Michael Weikath gives the album a final point of lyrical contrast with a socially conscious speed anthem in “How Many Tears”, which highlights another brilliant Kai Hansen vocal performance.

Much like the EP that preceded it, this album has its share of flaws in the production department. Although the vocals are a good deal more precise, they are still a bit buried under an overpowering wall of rhythm guitars and drums. Likewise the lead guitars a still too quiet, and on “Phantoms of Death” the keyboards have a hard time remaining audible. Marcus’ bass is more active and consequently is also easier to hear, although it lacks the clear definition that would later be realized on the Keeper albums.

Although many have drawn a lot of attention to this album’s weaknesses, a clear sense of perspective should be applied to this opus. It is an innovative work that broke down the barriers between speed and melody, which separated the sometimes fast NWOBHM acts from the faster Punk Rock acts that put aggression ahead of musicality. Blind Guardian and every other Power Metal act that currently shares the scene with these pioneers owe their existence to this album and the ones that followed it and built upon this more primitive yet forward looking approach to metal. If you liked the early Speed/Power style where aggression was held in common with its Thrash cousin, this album will not let you down. Although I recommend getting the album without all the bonus stuff on it, no matter which version you attain, the 9 songs contained within have an ebb and flow that is quite different from the other stuff surrounding it on the newer release. Keep this in mind as you experience this dated yet timeless piece of power metal history.

The birth of a legend! - 90%
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This is the remastered version of "walls of jericho", including the amazing "helloween ep" and the single "Judas".

Helloween needs no introduction, they are the power metal legends that influenced every power metal, from the best ones (Rhapsody, Forgotten Tales, Nightwish) to the most generic and boring ones (Hammerfall). In the begining they where hugely influenced by Iron Maiden and it shows a lot on this album. The song "victim of fate", despite being a masterpiece of power metal with it's excellent melodic riffage and awesome chorus, is clearly an attempt at rewriting Iron Maiden's "the phantom of the opera". The same thing can be said about "warrior", it's minor-key high register slinky riff, galloping structure and war topic being very reminiscent of "the trooper". But despite being very derivative in their formative years, Helloween still managed to create something unique by adding neo-classical influences (mainly in the guitar solos) and a never-stopping 16th note riffing assault that would become the power metal cliché that we all love.

Each song is very well written, Kai Hansen being a master songwritter, having a knack for infectious melodies that stick in your head right away. (the bridge of the song "murderer" being a perfect exemple) We can hear that Hammerfall where influenced a lot by the song "cry for freedom", and we even find a typical Rhapsody chorus in the song "guardians", only Helloween did it 12 years before. I must also mention that the guitar team of Hansen/Weikath is the best ever! every single solo is a pure gem of catchy neo-classical melodies. This is even catchier than Randy Rhoads, and the neo-classical element is even more present.

The trademark helloween humor is present on this album, with absurdly funny songs like "Gorgar" (about an evil pinball machine!) and the tongue-in-cheek anthem "heavy metal is the law". The lyrics in general are not as good as they would become on later Hansen era albums but the music is always top-notch and there's not even a single weak song.

In the end this is an excellent album, and is only a notch bellow masterpieces such as the keepers of seven keys album. (mainly because of the messy production and Hansen's mediocre voice) But the songwriting is as strong as it would be on the keepers album. A must!

The birth of a legend! - 90%
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This is the remastered version of "walls of jericho", including the amazing "helloween ep" and the single "Judas".

Helloween needs no introduction, they are the power metal legends that influenced every power metal, from the best ones (Rhapsody, Forgotten Tales, Nightwish) to the most generic and boring ones (Hammerfall). In the begining they where hugely influenced by Iron Maiden and it shows a lot on this album. The song "victim of fate", despite being a masterpiece of power metal with it's excellent melodic riffage and awesome chorus, is clearly an attempt at rewriting Iron Maiden's "the phantom of the opera". The same thing can be said about "warrior", it's minor-key high register slinky riff, galloping structure and war topic being very reminiscent of "the trooper". But despite being very derivative in their formative years, Helloween still managed to create something unique by adding neo-classical influences (mainly in the guitar solos) and a never-stopping 16th note riffing assault that would become the power metal cliché that we all love.

Each song is very well written, Kai Hansen being a master songwritter, having a knack for infectious melodies that stick in your head right away. (the bridge of the song "murderer" being a perfect exemple) We can hear that Hammerfall where influenced a lot by the song "cry for freedom", and we even find a typical Rhapsody chorus in the song "guardians", only Helloween did it 12 years before. I must also mention that the guitar team of Hansen/Weikath is the best ever! every single solo is a pure gem of catchy neo-classical melodies. This is even catchier than Randy Rhoads, and the neo-classical element is even more present.

The trademark helloween humor is present on this album, with absurdly funny songs like "Gorgar" (about an evil pinball machine!) and the tongue-in-cheek anthem "heavy metal is the law". The lyrics in general are not as good as they would become on later Hansen era albums but the music is always top-notch and there's not even a single weak song.

In the end this is an excellent album, and is only a notch bellow masterpieces such as the keepers of seven keys album. (mainly because of the messy production and Hansen's mediocre voice) But the songwriting is as strong as it would be on the keepers album. A must!
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Gorgar WILL Eat You! - 99%
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Holy shit, this is impressive! I agree with anyone who says that this album is best heard on CD with the Helloween EP and Judas as bonus tracks, it all belongs here. Where to start? Well, how about fucking WARRIOR? Totally overlooked speed metal . Vicious vocals and classic riffs are in abundance here. It's easily one of the best songs on this disc.Victim of Fate is another killer fucking song, with one of those Helloween choruses that you'd have a hard time forgetting (assuming you wanted to). I'd like to add that the lyrics on the EP are totally different from later Helloween; songs about drugs, crime, poverty and , uh, war. No fantasy stuff here.

Then, after a pretty good intro, we get RIDE THE SKY. So much has been said about this one, I'll just say that this is mandatory epic speed metal. Think Majesty or One Shot at Glory. This is the original.

Some of the album isn't is solid as the EP, but other highlights include Guardians, with that uber-catchy chorus, Phantoms of Death, and the great anthem Heavy Metal (Is the Law), which would do Manowar proud as far as chest-thumping metal anthems go. Judas is more lethal speed.

One last note. Gorgar is the best metal song about a pinball machine, ever. Buy this, or Gorgar will eat your fucking soul!

Gorgar WILL Eat You! - 99%
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Holy shit, this is impressive! I agree with anyone who says that this album is best heard on CD with the Helloween EP and Judas as bonus tracks, it all belongs here. Where to start? Well, how about fucking WARRIOR? Totally overlooked speed metal . Vicious vocals and classic riffs are in abundance here. It's easily one of the best songs on this disc.Victim of Fate is another killer fucking song, with one of those Helloween choruses that you'd have a hard time forgetting (assuming you wanted to). I'd like to add that the lyrics on the EP are totally different from later Helloween; songs about drugs, crime, poverty and , uh, war. No fantasy stuff here.

Then, after a pretty good intro, we get RIDE THE SKY. So much has been said about this one, I'll just say that this is mandatory epic speed metal. Think Majesty or One Shot at Glory. This is the original.

Some of the album isn't is solid as the EP, but other highlights include Guardians, with that uber-catchy chorus, Phantoms of Death, and the great anthem Heavy Metal (Is the Law), which would do Manowar proud as far as chest-thumping metal anthems go. Judas is more lethal speed.


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One last note. Gorgar is the best metal song about a pinball machine, ever. Buy this, or Gorgar will eat your fucking soul!

Best Speed Metal LP - 94%
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Helloween secure their position as #1 speed metal band with this excellent album. Although not as bone-crushing or evil as the Helloween EP, it’s still a must-have for any metal fan. The riffs are just as lethal and Kai’s voice is still spawned from Hell. Kai and Michael do some extraordinary solos that own your petty soul. Walls of Jericho is much catchier than their self-titled EP and also has a more positive and happier tone, showing what the band will transform into. Get ready to jump into another murderous release from the speed metal titans.

An intro, as usual, starts this album off, but this one is actually pretty cool and worth listening. After that is Ride The Sky. Like a juggernaut, that opening riff brutalizes you to near death. It unleashes a death grip on your neck and throws you across the room into the wall. And then Kai’s ear-piercing banshee wail leaves you man-less and crippled. This is one hell of a song. It’s six minutes of pure, unadulterated headbanging. The tons of riffs just shred you up. The brilliant solo section goes on for a long time without a second of boredom. During it, there are many tempo changes and killer riffs. This is a majestic way to start an album.

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Reptile is an enormous letdown from the previous track. It is mid-paced and the slowest song on the album (ironically, it’s also the shortest song). The chorus has a nice thrash riff, but the bass is more audible than the guitars. Plus, Weikath begins his tendency of writing dumbass lyrics with this song: “Frustrated businessmen needing a wank can’t find themselves a whore,” and “You need a shit so you head off for the loo. You’re coming to the bog, now what you’re gonna do.” Fortunately for us, this is the only song with stupid lyrics.

Hell yeah, next up is GUARDIANS. This is the best song off the album. From beginning to end, this track owns you and your whole fucking bloodline. This song is a splendid riff orgy. As soon as a riff is blasted through the speakers, another one comes at you. And these aren’t your ordinary riffs. They rip off all your limbs, one by one, and then blow your brains out; they have no mercy whatsoever. Just check out that riff right before the solo, high-class thrash. It even ends with a tormenting thrash riff (Ride The Lightning style). Michael redeems himself by writing some pretty cool lyrics. The chorus is so damn catchy. It’s one of the best metal choruses ever. Even the solos shred indefinitely. This track is completely flawless and is speed metal at its finest.

Phantoms Of Death is a decent thrash/speed metal epic. The keyboard work during the verse gives away what the band will be in the future. It has some good riffs, but isn’t that special. After it is Metal Invaders. This one is extremely melodic, even the opening riff gets you in its trance. After the first listen, you’ll know the basic melody. It’s one of the better tracks off the album.

Gorgar is a kick-ass thrash song. Kai gives us a very evil performance. Although it’s not as fast as the rest of the songs, it’s a shitload better than Reptile. The riffs are exceptionally aggressive. Heavy Metal Is The Law is criminally catchy. Guaranteed, it will have you singing along with it. It starts off with a remarkable drum intro, and includes a short bass solo after the guitar solo. You will be addicted to it for years. It appears live, but it isn’t.

The album ends with How Many Tears, a superior epic track. Fast, furious riffs are scattered all over. The drumming specifically excels here. Blistering riffs are embraced in the chorus, which has an epic feel to it. The lead solo section goes on for about three minutes and includes various blazing harmony solos. As soon as it slows down, it picks its self up and goes intensively fast. To end Helloween’s best album, Kai delivers a horrific scream that forces you into utter immolation.

Walls of Jericho is a severely rapid array of aggressively fast riffs, added with tremendous double-bass. Every song destroys you, but some aren’t as worthy as others. You must get this now, even if you have to rob yourself a copy.


Best Speed Metal LP - 94%
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Helloween secure their position as #1 speed metal band with this excellent album. Although not as bone-crushing or evil as the Helloween EP, it’s still a must-have for any metal fan. The riffs are just as lethal and Kai’s voice is still spawned from Hell. Kai and Michael do some extraordinary solos that own your petty soul. Walls of Jericho is much catchier than their self-titled EP and also has a more positive and happier tone, showing what the band will transform into. Get ready to jump into another murderous release from the speed metal titans.

An intro, as usual, starts this album off, but this one is actually pretty cool and worth listening. After that is Ride The Sky. Like a juggernaut, that opening riff brutalizes you to near death. It unleashes a death grip on your neck and throws you across the room into the wall. And then Kai’s ear-piercing banshee wail leaves you man-less and crippled. This is one hell of a song. It’s six minutes of pure, unadulterated headbanging. The tons of riffs just shred you up. The brilliant solo section goes on for a long time without a second of boredom. During it, there are many tempo changes and killer riffs. This is a majestic way to start an album.

Reptile is an enormous letdown from the previous track. It is mid-paced and the slowest song on the album (ironically, it’s also the shortest song). The chorus has a nice thrash riff, but the bass is more audible than the guitars. Plus, Weikath begins his tendency of writing dumbass lyrics with this song: “Frustrated businessmen needing a wank can’t find themselves a whore,” and “You need a shit so you head off for the loo. You’re coming to the bog, now what you’re gonna do.” Fortunately for us, this is the only song with stupid lyrics.

Hell yeah, next up is GUARDIANS. This is the best song off the album. From beginning to end, this track owns you and your whole fucking bloodline. This song is a splendid riff orgy. As soon as a riff is blasted through the speakers, another one comes at you. And these aren’t your ordinary riffs. They rip off all your limbs, one by one, and then blow your brains out; they have no mercy whatsoever. Just check out that riff right before the solo, high-class thrash. It even ends with a tormenting thrash riff (Ride The Lightning style). Michael redeems himself by writing some pretty cool lyrics. The chorus is so damn catchy. It’s one of the best metal choruses ever. Even the solos shred indefinitely. This track is completely flawless and is speed metal at its finest.

Phantoms Of Death is a decent thrash/speed metal epic. The keyboard work during the verse gives away what the band will be in the future. It has some good riffs, but isn’t that special. After it is Metal Invaders. This one is extremely melodic, even the opening riff gets you in its trance. After the first listen, you’ll know the basic melody. It’s one of the better tracks off the album.

Gorgar is a kick-ass thrash song. Kai gives us a very evil performance. Although it’s not as fast as the rest of the songs, it’s a shitload better than Reptile. The riffs are exceptionally aggressive. Heavy Metal Is The Law is criminally catchy. Guaranteed, it will have you singing along with it. It starts off with a remarkable drum intro, and includes a short bass solo after the guitar solo. You will be addicted to it for years. It appears live, but it isn’t.

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The album ends with How Many Tears, a superior epic track. Fast, furious riffs are scattered all over. The drumming specifically excels here. Blistering riffs are embraced in the chorus, which has an epic feel to it. The lead solo section goes on for about three minutes and includes various blazing harmony solos. As soon as it slows down, it picks its self up and goes intensively fast. To end Helloween’s best album, Kai delivers a horrific scream that forces you into utter immolation.

Walls of Jericho is a severely rapid array of aggressively fast riffs, added with tremendous double-bass. Every song destroys you, but some aren’t as worthy as others. You must get this now, even if you have to rob yourself a copy.
Last edited by Barlog on 12 Jul 2013 18:37, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Defending The Fans

#414 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 15:03

Hansi Smurf wrote:
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SPEED!! SPEED!! SPEED!!!! - 98%
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What a fine speed metal release we have here. Raw, fast, furious, yet melodic and catchy. The remastered version includes the mini-LP along with it, that legendary LP and proved to the metal world that Helloween was no average metal band. This is pure insanity and genius!

Starlight - The intro to this one will either freak first time listeners or ease the minds of those who think they are in for easy listening material. Either way, both will be surprised...."AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" the banshee scream of Kai Hansen kicks in followed by an all out metal assualt. This is some fine speed metal right here, raw and untamed.

Murderer - Not so different from 'Starlight', this song begins with aggressive riffage and doesn't let down until the very end. Fast and furious, barely any melody but it is a real rocker. The chorus is hateful and mean, which is quite quite killer. :)

Warrior - Helloween's most underrated song, EVER! The riffage is so godly here, just dynamic to say the least. This is speed metal in its finest form, guaranteed to make you headbang. If such a phenominal like this doesn't force you to bang your head, then I don't know what will. Screaming guitar licks, galloping riffs, a bad ass chorus "So diiiiieeeee now! Die! Warriooorrrr!"....what more can you ask for?

Victim Of Fate - If this song doesn't remind you of Iron Maiden's 'Phantom Of The Opera' then you must be near deaf, because the riffs are almost a rippoff of the song. Don't get me wrong!! I am not in any way critisizing this song, it's one of Helloween's best, but the riffs sound like they were taken straight from POTO and altered a bit into Helloween's own song, which would of course only cause it to sound good as hell.

Cry For Freedom - After 4 previous speed metal assault on the listener's ears, this is quite a change. It starts off with a cool, acoustic intro but then changes into an epic speed metal tune. Almost as fast as the other 4 though not as aggressive, and there is much more melody in Kai Hansen's voice.

Walls Of Jericho - This intro sure beats the hell out of the one for 'Starlight' and though Helloween is known for creating some of the gayest and most irrellevent intros to songs, this one is actually quite good. But brace yourself if you're a first time listener, cause you have no idea what is about to hit you...

Ride The Sky - The opening riff here attacks you like a pack of wolves, speed metal in your fuckin' face!! This is the definetion of speed metal, this is what it's all about. No doubt about it, this here is the greatest speed metal tune ever created. I think that's all I have to say about it.

Reptile - One of the album's main highlights, this song tells the story of sewage monster attacking a town with no way to stop it. How cool is that? It's not as fast nor as heavy as 'Ride The Sky', but it's still good quality speed metal. Another raw and untamed number.

Guardians - Keyboard work is added for this one but the speed is preserved. This is a slight preview of what the band would next release, melodic to a certain extent though just as fast as the typical speed metal song. Kai's vocals aren't as raw here either, he actually sings, though I prefere his aggressive screeches over his melodic singing.

Phantoms Of Death - Another underrated Helloween tune. This is a break from the speed metal tunes, being a little more tamed along with keyboard added also. The sound of the keys in this tune though beat the shit out of the ones used for 'Guardians', and the riffs are absolutly crushing! By far one of their best.

Metal Invaders - Shredding, furious riff attacks!!! That's how this one begins. Both guitars shredding at once, continuing in the speed metal vein. The riffs are actually the only melody here, this song is almost as aggressive and as heavy as 'Ride The Sky'. Well...not really but it comes closest out of any of Helloween's songs. Another fine piece of speed metal to get whiplashed to.

Gorgar - The only mid-paced song on the album, but it's one of the heaviest. Along with the driving beat, the riffage is very distorted and thrashy, reminding me a bit of something from Heathen or Metallica's 'Ride The Lightning', perhapse 'Escape' or 'Creeping Death'. Kai's vocals are fantasicly raw on this one too.

Heavy Metal (Is The Law) - And that it is...err....in the metal community at least. =/ This track appears to be live, though it isn't, it's just to go along with the theme of the song that METAL HEADS RULE!! The drums are without a doubt the highlight of this one, delivering lightning fast double bass above the guitar distortion.

How Many Tears? - Many people seem to think that this is the albums epic closing, but I do not see it as an epic. It's just a long speed metal tune, the longest on the album actually. After the tracks 'Gorgar' and 'Heavy Metal (Is The Law)', this one didn't appeal much to me at first. It's just your typical speed metal with a speed change shortly in the middle of the song, then back to the double bass it is.
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Judas - This is the album bonus track, though I don't know why it wasn't put on the album to begin with. This song is fast and amazing, down right mean and aggressive. The chorus kills too..."JUDAS! Ruling with an iron hand! JUDAS! Sitting in the government! JUDAS! I am not your Jesus Christ! JUDAS! You will be the one who's crucifiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeed" and the gallpong part in the middle of the song where everyone is shouting "JUDAS! JUDAS!" is just purely amazing.

You want in your face aggression and speed without dealing with crappy death metal grunts? Then get this, and get whiplashed!! Neck-breaking speed metal at its finest, this will not, at any point let you down. Helloween are the speed metal gods.

And this is the epitome of Speed Metal? - 75%
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I realize there is a real tendency among Speed Metal fans to orgasm whever Kai Hansen so much as scratches an itch, but from an objective viewpoint, how is this one of the best Speed Metal albums ever? I mean, Rob Halford has farted songs better than this album, and while it does have its moments (few and far between), there's just nothing that I can grab hold of and tear apart. And that's a problem.

The production is a garbled mess. Let's get that clear straight off the bat. I can barely hear the guitar solos becuase the backup riffage is so loud and messy that everything else fades into the background. The drums are OK, but somehow I expected more from a Speed Metal drummer. And then there's Kai's vocal work, which is absolute dog shit on this album. The vocals are incredibly irritating and grating on the nerves, and it absolutely does not even come close to anything he did in Gamma Ray. Whether it's because he's unrefined or because he honestly thought those vocals went well with the album, there are many good ideas on here ruined by the god-awful vocals. Finally, the *good* songs on here don't have much to distinguish themselves from one another, so the result is a real mushy nightmare of occasional interesting, if monotonous, clarity.


First of all, let's look at Reptile. This is good Speed Metal if and only if you prefer your speed metal to sound like late-era Sepultura. The garbled disaster of the beginning is legendary. The drums can't seem to find a consistent rhythm to give shape, and the guitars aren't having any more luck with the riffs. Kai's vocals range from annoying (the verses) to fairly decent (the chorus), but even in the chorus the guitars sound like a mush of sound as opposed to a clear headbanging show of force. Ride the Sky and Murderer are the highlights of the album, burt they tend to sound a lot alike in the middle section (although they're still cool enough to keep this album from being a total flop). Undoubtedly, though, the lowest point of the album is the beginning of Starfire . . . what the fuck is that? Is he waking up, or getting high? Whatever it is, it's just annoying.

Uggh. This album is a disaster. Go get Keeper of the Seven Keys, Part II and Painkiller. THOSE are classic Speed Metal albums. Not this coaster.

And this is the epitome of Speed Metal? - 75%
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I realize there is a real tendency among Speed Metal fans to orgasm whever Kai Hansen so much as scratches an itch, but from an objective viewpoint, how is this one of the best Speed Metal albums ever? I mean, Rob Halford has farted songs better than this album, and while it does have its moments (few and far between), there's just nothing that I can grab hold of and tear apart. And that's a problem.

The production is a garbled mess. Let's get that clear straight off the bat. I can barely hear the guitar solos becuase the backup riffage is so loud and messy that everything else fades into the background. The drums are OK, but somehow I expected more from a Speed Metal drummer. And then there's Kai's vocal work, which is absolute dog shit on this album. The vocals are incredibly irritating and grating on the nerves, and it absolutely does not even come close to anything he did in Gamma Ray. Whether it's because he's unrefined or because he honestly thought those vocals went well with the album, there are many good ideas on here ruined by the god-awful vocals. Finally, the *good* songs on here don't have much to distinguish themselves from one another, so the result is a real mushy nightmare of occasional interesting, if monotonous, clarity.

First of all, let's look at Reptile. This is good Speed Metal if and only if you prefer your speed metal to sound like late-era Sepultura. The garbled disaster of the beginning is legendary. The drums can't seem to find a consistent rhythm to give shape, and the guitars aren't having any more luck with the riffs. Kai's vocals range from annoying (the verses) to fairly decent (the chorus), but even in the chorus the guitars sound like a mush of sound as opposed to a clear headbanging show of force. Ride the Sky and Murderer are the highlights of the album, burt they tend to sound a lot alike in the middle section (although they're still cool enough to keep this album from being a total flop). Undoubtedly, though, the lowest point of the album is the beginning of Starfire . . . what the fuck is that? Is he waking up, or getting high? Whatever it is, it's just annoying.

Uggh. This album is a disaster. Go get Keeper of the Seven Keys, Part II and Painkiller. THOSE are classic Speed Metal albums. Not this coaster.

Speed Metal at it's Best! - 99%
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This is a review for the re-issue, so there are 15 songs to be found on this cd. This is probably my favorite Helloween release, pretty much a non-stop album full of instant classics. Kai Hansen's vocals are gruff and add to the sound of the album.
The first five songs come from the Helloween EP. The next nine are from the actual album Walls of Jericho, and the final track is the song Judas.
Starlight is a killer opener, and provides some awesome guitar work that will mark much of this album.Murderer follows much in the same vein and is a decent speed metal offering. Warrior is another memorable track from the album. Victim of Fate is one of my favorites on here. Awesome "phantom of the opera" like riffing opens the song. Cry for Freedom opens with an acoustic section, but soon turns into a fast paced shredder.
Walls of Jericho is next, the trumpet intro descends into a mandatory speed metal classic. Holy shit! This song reeks of greatness. Hansen's opening scream is killer, and the song shows some of his best vocal and guitar work. Reptile is next, a little slower, but still has a quick pace to it. A very Judas Priest like chorus to be found on this one. Great song. Guardians follows with a vengeance, another fast paced slab of metal. Alot of riff changes in this song, and of course great lead work. Next is Phantoms of Death, this song crunches along at a fast pace. Alot of things going on during this song. Metal Invaders is next, and again we are greeted with some speed metal riffery. Gorgar is next, short intro lead turns into a killer thrash riff, and just goes on from there. Mid paced song, Hansen belts out some Halford like screams on this one. And who can listen to this song without having " Gorgar will eat you..." stuck in their head. Heh. Great song. Heavy Metal is the Law follows, and it opens with some killer double bass work. Then pure speed metal follows. This is classic. Great guitars, great vocals, awesomeness. Pure speed metal anthem. How Many Tears is another fast paced song, this song is probably the closest musically to the two Keepers albums. About 3 minutes of pure shredding speed metal, then a 2 minute melodic section, and 2 more minutes of speed. Awesome song. This album comes to a close with Judas, and the song does it's job in great fashion. More speed metal. Awesome closer.

Unrelenting speed metal!!!

All in all this is one of the finest metal cds ever put together. It is over and hour of non-stop high quality speed metal. Most of the songs will stick in your head after the first listen or two. Any metalhead should find something to enjoy on this album. If you don't have this, get it now!

Speed Metal at it's Best! - 99%
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This is a review for the re-issue, so there are 15 songs to be found on this cd. This is probably my favorite Helloween release, pretty much a non-stop album full of instant classics. Kai Hansen's vocals are gruff and add to the sound of the album.
The first five songs come from the Helloween EP. The next nine are from the actual album Walls of Jericho, and the final track is the song Judas.
Starlight is a killer opener, and provides some awesome guitar work that will mark much of this album.Murderer follows much in the same vein and is a decent speed metal offering. Warrior is another memorable track from the album. Victim of Fate is one of my favorites on here. Awesome "phantom of the opera" like riffing opens the song. Cry for Freedom opens with an acoustic section, but soon turns into a fast paced shredder.
Walls of Jericho is next, the trumpet intro descends into a mandatory speed metal classic. Holy shit! This song reeks of greatness. Hansen's opening scream is killer, and the song shows some of his best vocal and guitar work. Reptile is next, a little slower, but still has a quick pace to it. A very Judas Priest like chorus to be found on this one. Great song. Guardians follows with a vengeance, another fast paced slab of metal. Alot of riff changes in this song, and of course great lead work. Next is Phantoms of Death, this song crunches along at a fast pace. Alot of things going on during this song. Metal Invaders is next, and again we are greeted with some speed metal riffery. Gorgar is next, short intro lead turns into a killer thrash riff, and just goes on from there. Mid paced song, Hansen belts out some Halford like screams on this one. And who can listen to this song without having " Gorgar will eat you..." stuck in their head. Heh. Great song. Heavy Metal is the Law follows, and it opens with some killer double bass work. Then pure speed metal follows. This is classic. Great guitars, great vocals, awesomeness. Pure speed metal anthem. How Many Tears is another fast paced song, this song is probably the closest musically to the two Keepers albums. About 3 minutes of pure shredding speed metal, then a 2 minute melodic section, and 2 more minutes of speed. Awesome song. This album comes to a close with Judas, and the song does it's job in great fashion. More speed metal. Awesome closer.

Unrelenting speed metal!!!

All in all this is one of the finest metal cds ever put together. It is over and hour of non-stop high quality speed metal. Most of the songs will stick in your head after the first listen or two. Any metalhead should find something to enjoy on this album. If you don't have this, get it now!

Speed metal classic. - 90%
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The first full-length album of power metal legends Helloween is in fact not power metal, but it is pure fucking speed metal.
I chose to review this one and the EP in different reviews as they are originally different releases, and the EP is in fact better. While the EP consists of five absolutely fucking insane speed metal masterpieces, some of the songs on here are “just” very good. But most of this album is pretty damn amazing.
You may have heard Kai Hansen on his work with Gamma Ray, where he puts up a very strong, clean performance. But here, his vocals are raw, evil and high pitched. You either love him or hate him – I love him. And the guitar assault he puts up on this album along with Michael Weikath is basically flawless. Tons of insane speed metal riffage, a few midpaced devastating riffs, spectacular soloing and beautiful dual guitar lead section build the spine for one classic fucking speed metal album.
Markus Grosskopf is one of the best bassists I’ve ever heard. He always delivers a very evident performance, and showcases great skill. Drummer Ingo Schwichtenberg (R.I.P.) hammers the shit out of his drum kit.
Together, these four men create a landmark album in the speed metal genre, which has some of the greatest Helloween songs ever.

To name the greatest on here, we have Ride The Sky (completely fucking insane!), Phantoms of Death (amazing atmospheric tune with a very long, incredible solo section), Metal Invaders (fast as fuck but very, very catchy) and Heavy Metal Is The Law (speed metal doesn’t get catchier than this. Uplifting metal lyrics, insane riffwork and a very cool solo section including both guitar, bass, drum and vocal solo sections).
These songs are all masterpieces, which all deserve 9.5/10 at least.
Most of the other songs are pretty excellent too, like How Many Tears (quite epic, but fast as hell), Judas and Guardians (both very solid speed metal numbers).

But there are a few slightly less great songs here, namely like Reptile and Gorgar. They are the slowest paced songs on the album, and come off as quite mediocre, at least in comparison to the greatness of the remaining songs on here.
They're not bad, just not up to par with the rest.

So what we have here is a classic speed metal album, with 9 songs (plus an intro). Four of them are completely fucking mindblowing, three of them are just slightly less excellent, and two of them are pretty average. This is one of the greatest Helloween albums, that’s for sure, and it’s truly essential in every metalhead’s collection.

Speed metal classic. - 90%
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The first full-length album of power metal legends Helloween is in fact not power metal, but it is pure fucking speed metal.
I chose to review this one and the EP in different reviews as they are originally different releases, and the EP is in fact better. While the EP consists of five absolutely fucking insane speed metal masterpieces, some of the songs on here are “just” very good. But most of this album is pretty damn amazing.
You may have heard Kai Hansen on his work with Gamma Ray, where he puts up a very strong, clean performance. But here, his vocals are raw, evil and high pitched. You either love him or hate him – I love him. And the guitar assault he puts up on this album along with Michael Weikath is basically flawless. Tons of insane speed metal riffage, a few midpaced devastating riffs, spectacular soloing and beautiful dual guitar lead section build the spine for one classic fucking speed metal album.
Markus Grosskopf is one of the best bassists I’ve ever heard. He always delivers a very evident performance, and showcases great skill. Drummer Ingo Schwichtenberg (R.I.P.) hammers the shit out of his drum kit.
Together, these four men create a landmark album in the speed metal genre, which has some of the greatest Helloween songs ever.

To name the greatest on here, we have Ride The Sky (completely fucking insane!), Phantoms of Death (amazing atmospheric tune with a very long, incredible solo section), Metal Invaders (fast as fuck but very, very catchy) and Heavy Metal Is The Law (speed metal doesn’t get catchier than this. Uplifting metal lyrics, insane riffwork and a very cool solo section including both guitar, bass, drum and vocal solo sections).
These songs are all masterpieces, which all deserve 9.5/10 at least.
Most of the other songs are pretty excellent too, like How Many Tears (quite epic, but fast as hell), Judas and Guardians (both very solid speed metal numbers).

But there are a few slightly less great songs here, namely like Reptile and Gorgar. They are the slowest paced songs on the album, and come off as quite mediocre, at least in comparison to the greatness of the remaining songs on here.
They're not bad, just not up to par with the rest.

So what we have here is a classic speed metal album, with 9 songs (plus an intro). Four of them are completely fucking mindblowing, three of them are just slightly less excellent, and two of them are pretty average. This is one of the greatest Helloween albums, that’s for sure, and it’s truly essential in every metalhead’s collection.
- Nightcrawler, April 6th, 2003
One of the finest speed metal albums ever - 92%
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The CD re-release of this album contains the Helloween EP, and the song Judas - and since that's the only version I've ever had, I will review that, treating it as one 71 minute long album. There really aren't too many stylistic differences between the three, since they all came out in 1985 and 1986, and comprise almost the entirety of the band's Kai-on-vocals era (the remainder is two songs on the Death Metal compilation - "Oernst of Life" and "Metal Invaders", the latter of which was reworked on here, and also "Desire to Rock", which was played live exactly four times.)

First off: weak tracks. None, really. "Cry For Freedom" starts off just a bit boring, and the middle part of "Victim of Fate" (spoken word part) is a bit silly, but other than that, the album is perfect. Oh yeah and that dumbass intro to Starlight, haha. Do I really have to hear some guy snorting up?

Highlights: RIDE THE SKY!!! Best. Song. Ever. This is the definition of speed metal right here - blazing riff, shrieking vocals, and the solo that goes on forever without becoming boring.

The songs range from insanely fucking fast ("Ride the Sky", "Warrior", "Judas") to a more midpaced level ("Reptile", "Gorgar") to some pretty nice epic numbers ("How Many Tears", "Phantoms of Death"). All of them are fast enough to be considered speed metal, however, and a few have some almost thrash moments, like the chorus of "Reptile", or the intro riff to "Phantoms of Death". The choruses are completely memorable - it's one of those albums where after three listens, you will know all the basic melodies. The catchiest is probably "Metal Invaders" (though, good luck with the lyrics, I've listened to the album 100 times and I still gotta read the booklet... something something through the streets, I know the time is near, etc etc) Kai definitely has a German accent, but his vocals are perfect for this sort of music. If anyone has any complaints, go listen to Andrea Bocelli - Hansen may be shrieky, nasal, and a bit annoying, but he nails high notes, and gives 110 per cent effort, 110 per cent of the time.

Oh and the guitar work is fantastic too, as I mentioned - great riffs, and totally memorable solos in the Tipton/Downing vein. This is one of those completely essential albums that one cannot do without. If you like Painkiller, you'll like this.
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Re: Defending The Fans

#415 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 15:09

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Re: A Legitimate Farewell???

#416 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 15:29

Mackasfour wrote:
Hansi Smurf wrote:Have I gone senile???
8) 8)
Who'd of thought
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :cry: :evil: :)

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:arrow: :arrow: :idea: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :idea:
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#417 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 19:05

jouzinka wrote:http://www.metboard.com/index.php?s=083 ... ntry146325

8)

Even with a sense of humor. :lol:
I am not masturbating even, because I feel acute pain instead of this.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :cry: :cry: :evil:
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:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :oops: :P :x :mrgreen: :arrow: :arrow: :twisted:
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Re: A Legitimate Farewell???

#418 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 19:07

Mackasfour wrote:
Hansi Smurf wrote:Have I gone senile???
Who'd of thought
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#419 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 19:13

spamel wrote:I think Nikita is mad..... but Hansi Smurf is mad too....... So which one is madder?




There's only one way to find out.................................





FIIIIIIIIGHT!
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#420 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 19:30

jouzinka wrote:I suggest... ignorance. :roll:
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#421 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 19:36

End Of An Era wrote:
Insanity wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:"End Of An Era", where are you, my friend? :x
He's not your friend. Deal with it.
Somebody had to say it :)
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Re: A Final Illumination Upon My Use Of The Word Rape!

#422 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 19:40

Hansi Smurf wrote:Inside the Bible, somewhere inside the Israelite Law Sections, one will find an especial rule, whereby Rape is defined as ANY sexual intercourse, occuring in Israel, outside of the Marriage Roles. If the woman resists and screams for help, she will be spared death, BUT, adultery in this passage IS defined as Rape: and if it occurs without a struggle, both parties are subject to Town Law, and the Death Penalty! (uh oh! :shock: )

Secondly, Consensual Sex in The Secular West is colloquially-based, presumably, upon Verbal Consent, or, Consent brought about by Speech from the Mouth, to the Ears! Hence, if One were to have absolute faith in "Psycho-Sexuality", and thus begin sexual intercourse in public based soley upon warm feelings and groovy vibes, one might well presume that, technically, the act would be construed as Rape by a spectating (and presumably violent, offensive AND polyandrous) public, especially in our mutual society, where there is "No Such Thing As Brain/Backbone-based EMF Radio Signal Transmissions, Farady Cages, Nor Polygraph Equipment!" (And oh, yeah, oestrus doesn't exist either, you heard it right here! (further sarcasm))

What can I say? I prefer non-verbally consented to sexual intercourse with in-heat wombs (a slight bi-polar disorder, really!), AND, zero-polyandry! I also like women whom carry children as non-burdens, and whom excercise regularly! (...and yah know, them Groovy Fags at Hustler Magazine, showed me way back in April 2002, that a Womb can peacefully have a whole fist/wrist/forearm, right up to the elbow, right up the ass, and most likey, right up the cunt, too! So who needs labor delivery?!? Just like C-Button (Wrestler John Cena) "drops his kiddies off at the pool", most likely meaning he uses his middle finger for to extract his little boulders outta his own ass manually, with plenty of mucous membrane right up in there, so too do I hypothesize that babies can be delivered manually, and without ANY labor! (I can't even get a second finger up my ass comfortably while dropping kiddies off myself! I'd hafta watch a rimming video for ta learn the truth! (Too, one might want for to consider a baby just as sturdy and as stable inside the womb, as any heart, lung, or kidney is, inside the Womb's Body!))

And, from the "Psychic (?) Hansi Kursch Fnord", BLIND GUARDIAN need to protect their fans, and to stop burdening us all with seperating our sex-organs into sex organs, save for fertile Hot Talk, and for to consider God not speech, but indeed, for to consider God the post-Creation Whole Man-Robot!

"My whole body is God, not just speech, and especially not the speech of other males!" - No 'am

:mrgreen:

(PS. "Boob! Where are yah, my little bear-naked type buddy? It sure is lonesome in Jellystone Forest without yah!" - Beeb)


I AM, ME, HANSI SMURF A STUPID FREAK AND GAY AND I AM boy that posting SHIT. MY PHOTO MY PHOTO? MY FOTO?
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Re: Defending The Fans

#423 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 21:16

Hansi Smurf wrote::shock:

Have you ever punched your own fist into your own hand, and done so as hard as you could, for as long as you could, before the pain really started: stopped when the pain started, and then, once more, punching your open-hand, once the feelings had been fully re-normalized?

I believe that if you do perform this very easy science-wrestling trick, and continue for to do so, for some many repetitions, that you will soon find yourselves being made able for to punch your open hand, longer and longer, before the pain ever begins for to set in!

Just think of what just such a fist might eventually provide for you, against any opponent, not so well-conditioned as thou, huh ?

One imagines that the Wrestlers, whom I today call the Israelites really, one can very easily imagine, that these Wreslters ENTIRE BODIES are conditioned in just such the above manner, making them virtually imprevious, to ANY possibly-unconditoned attacker, or, any, would-be unconditioned political target ?!?



Too, despite some-but-not-all of the Secularist Rhetoric being anti-gang, I quite recommend that all males, and females, join together in well-organized, well-initiated, armed-gangs, thruout Town, City, and/or Country ! Personally, I wish that my own region, Canada, I generally wish that it would become one Generally Fire-Armed Camp: and meeting Nationally in the various Local Public Fields, for to sing "O' Canada", AND, for to display the unbelievable mitre of Canadian Rifles, and as well, the deadly accurate sharp-shooting skills, of the all of the Local Canadian Dads !

I wonder how America would react, if America suddenly found itself with a Northern Neighbor, now Generally Armed, and all sharp-shooters? I bet that once they saw the Local Police Dogs, with all of their cute sniffing, and all of their bullet-magnet collars, floating thru Canada and collecting up all of the, rather expensive, spent shells? Maybe, then, the American people might together, admire Canada's quaint New Patriotism, smile briefly at the thought of just such fun; but, wink, wink, say no more, all of 'em would then just happen for to be able for to pull out their very own, brand-new, 1970's-era Disintegrator Pistols; and then, completely disintegrating their very own Towns and Possessions, (and VERY easily I might add) and then, after pushing a brief button or two, photonically re-integrating Civilization: Once finished, the American People would all smile, they would all hold up, and wave about, miniature versions of their very own American Flag, Old Glory, and all of them then raising up their very own right-pointer fingers proudly, and saying together with tears in their very eyes: "America Is Still Number One!"

Personally ? I like living in Canada: a lot! I love Suburban White Christmas - very snug, very gentle, very holy, and very peaceful (Very Far Out Metatemporal Vibes, Man)! Too, I really just love living a mere hour's drive from literally thousands of packs of ravenous man-eating wolves, and, just as far-out, twice as many mountain lions! :wink:

But even more, I love the Old Social Contract, provided for by all of yesterday's Global Chiefs and Hetmen, setting aside Canada, as a future Colonial Site, for White, Christian & English-Speaking peoples, for to arrive en masse within, and here using planning provided for by the already standing-directives of the awe-inspiring Old Civilian Engineers, and rebuilding Canada up, and into a place just as dense, and just as technical as any America, Old Europe, or even Japan!

And too, all of the Canadian Aboriginal Peoples, still most probably the same as they were examined for to be, now over 100 years ago, IQ and Personality-wise: all of them put to the Sword of the Almighty White Man, and sanctioned by the very same System of Treaties what returned Hong Kong back to the Secular Goverment of the Very Proud Nation of China!

To The Future of Canadian Immigration! 85% American, 10% United Kingdom, 5% Greater German Republican (an Inheritance)! And all of the People: White, Christian, and English Speaking - PARADISE!

(Global Housing Crisis ? How ? Every Canadian City from 1922-1927 went from, in ratio, 20 000 to 250 000 peoples, and with all of the houses still fit today, for any fit family of five for to live within! And it ain't 1925 today, Man! Today there's air compressors and nail guns - way more of 'em! And much more efficient motored scoopers and shovellers, too! And the hours of work in them days wuz still only 9 to 5: and with every Saturday AND Sunday off, too! I don't believe in World Vision, or Charity, at all! And y'know why ? Cuz where I'm from, the Earth that is, there IS, an already established Social Contract providing Adequate Welfare For All Globally; and Capitalism and Town Economy - For Volunteers Only! (Gee...? I wonder if I can drive most home-owners, globally, from out of their very homes, and into Military Prison Camps, for quite obviously having failed for to qualify for property ownership viz the Old Mental Age of 21 (Self-Rule) Law ? Man, I sure hope so !))

:roll
:I AM HANSI SMURF THE IDIOT! TOUCH ME! TOUCH ME TOUCH ME NOW! I AM STUPID DEBIL!
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#424 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 21:23

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:btw, Who the hell is that Grizje fella you keep talking about?
WHITOUT ME? I LOVE NIKITA BOBKOV I WANT HIM TO BECAME A NEW VOCALIST OF BG HEY, YOU! MIRROR OF MADNESS
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#425 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 21:24

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#426 Post by Barlog » 12 Jul 2013 21:27

Joost wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Galadriel is a dirty whore, that Hansi f*** in a**. You don't know what you talking about, I feel so much pain!
You bastards I am not joking!!!!!!!! I am not bot, but you all are emptyhead bots.
I love Forgotten Realms like Andre, and I love world of Baldurs Gate2 Shadows of Amn and I am understand music of BG like no other, you are stupid europeoids with snake primitive language that I can even write correctly... Замолчите! Я не для того прошёл сквозь огонь, чтобы разговаривать с такими как вы!
Oh my. This just has got to be the post of the year. Of 2011, that is.
:oops: :oops: :oops:

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#427 Post by Barlog » 13 Jul 2013 15:53

Joost wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:I can't understand you, people... I am seriously ask full Blind Gyardian band to help me matherially and physically (I decide them humanous highlevel creatures) with giving some money to cure my family and myself because I am dying now to listen his music and feel his imaginations from the other side again like never before and you orgnize this textual nonsense - what a shame! Thinking that it never happens with you is very very incorrect and funny laughing at my asking is unhumanous! Let's look in the deep of our souls and asking ourselfs what we are want from that life... Cruelty?

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Violense? Fear and Pain? Or you offer me keep my ring to a sorrow?
I'll keep the ring, but what happens after? Hansi, stop them, they are not understanding not only middleage but all middleearth and forgotten realms world! Or I can be wrong if you say it right!

What a shame, freaks of BG, BG MEMBERS you did not help me never!
Just wondering, why do you say similar things about Islam on a Muslim forum, and about Metallica on a Metallica forum? :P
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Interview with Varg Snickers

Greetings Varg, how are things?

Greetings Chris, things are fine here.

Over the past few hundred years we have seen both a growing disregard for the environment as well as a steady decrease in culture and heritage. What do you believe is responsible for this and what could we do to improve upon this?


Orodaran wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:I have send this message to many places because I thought that chanse of helping will be increasing. I didn't knew it was my main mistake, nobody answer to me. Rock-bands so expensive, but It's understood that rock-bands sells rock-n-roll. Sorry, Hansi. Sorry, Galadriel. I am so poor, so week and so stupid.
Hey, prove us that you're real and not a spambot - please, go here: http://www.blind-guardian.com/2010/12/2 ... asquerade/

Could you please write the name of the third song in the first setlist that is being shown?



What are some authors and figures that you hold in high esteem?

I think highly of authors like Julius Evola, F. W. Nietzsche, Oswald Spengler and Knut Hamsun (although his books are rather boring, his ideas are very interesting), but naturally I don't agree with everything they say.

When it comes to figures I hold in high esteem I don't know what to say. In general I don't really think on that level. Individual human beings are rarely very important to me, with the exception of my closest friends and family of course.

The figures I hold in high esteem must be all the women, men, girls and boys who revolt against the modern world and who refuse to degrade themselves by participating in the modern menagerie. I admire all girls and boys who wait with sex until they marry and then stay faithful to their spouses until they die. I admire strength in general, wherever it manifests itself. I admire honesty, courage, moral, creativity, intelligence,
The "Hliðskjálf" ("Hidden Opening Into Asgarðr" or "Secret Ritual-Site") album: there are at least three tracks on this album that I like a lot, but in general this album is much like "Dauði Baldrs": it was the best I could do in a few months; the time I had to complete each of these albums, before the prison authorities either sent me to another prison (in 1995 ["Dauði Baldrs"]) or prevented me from recording anything more (in 1998 ["Hliðskjálf"]).

The Old Funeral, "Devoured Carcass" EP: this was the first music I (on this EP only as a guitarist) ever recorded in a studio, when I was 17 years old. The music on this album is Death Metal and the sound is not very good. As far as I remember it is okay, but the Old Funeral demo tape, from 1988 or 1989, that I didn't contribute to in any way, is much, much better. And I must say that although I made some of the music on this EP, I had nothing to do with the lyrics or cover artwork. ("Devoured Carcass"? Give me a break... It is almost as stupid as the Immortal lyrics...)

The Mayhem, "De Mysteriis Dan Sathanas" album: as You might know I played the bass on this album. I am not credited as a bass player on this album simply because Euronymous' parents told Hellhammer that they would stop the album if he tried to release it featuring both their son and me. So Hellhammer told them he re-recorded the bass line himself, which was a lie, and then simply removed my name from the album cover - solely to satisfy Euronymous' parents. (Contrary to popular belief, there has never been any conflict between the Mayhem guys and me, not even after the "inconvenience" with Euronymous.)
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I once said that this album reeked big time, because the vocals ruined everything, but the truth is that I had only properly heard the vocals on "Freezing Moon" when I said that, and I think "Freezing Moon" reeks big time, but the vocals on the other tracks is perfect. The reason I think "Freezing Moon" reeks is simply that I was used to Dead's vocals and his way of singing, and I never wanted that to change. Attila, the session vocalist for this album, was more concerned about his "artistic integrity", and didn't want to sound just like Dead, so (unfortunately) he wanted to do his own thing.
, but still worth it. Innocents go down if we don't take care of this problem anyhow. Ironically, when I tell junkies how I see this they agree with me, but as long as "humanism" rules our world and as long as we live in a global community the problem with drug abuse will only get bigger and bigger, until it so big the whole global "civilization" simply collapses - and I cannot say I don't look forward to that, so to speak. The sooner the modern "civilization" destroys itself the merrier, and drug use is speeding up this process.

How do you feel about cultures/societies adopting traditions, beliefs, or practices from cultures other than their own?

Well, we saw what happened to ancient Greece and the Roman Empire when they started to let other cultures influence their own culture, and the same is happening to the rest of Europe today. On the other hand we cannot be so conservative that we want to keep inferior systems and ideas no matter what, if there are better alternatives. I think we should be open to everything that is in accordance with our blood and our collective meaning of life, and reject the rest. On the other hand, I have never heard a good idea from outside Europe (and by Europe I mean "the European [Nordic] race"), so I don't think this will be much of a problem to Europe.

The concept of multiculturalism is just brain-dead crap, as one culture will eventually prevail at the expense of the other cultures in the same area, so if we wish to see our own culture survive we have to be intolerant and conservative, and reject - and even destroy - alien influences.

Today the USA is the main problem in this context, because the USA is doing just like the culture of Carthage did. The USA too conquer by trade. The whole world is flooded in American consumer products. The Coca-Cola company, McDonald's, Levi-Strauss, Microsoft, the Hollywood "entertainment" (id est propaganda) industry, and so forth, are destroying all cultures on planet Earth, and are trying to replace it with the American lack of culture. This "cultural" imperialism is of course linked to capitalism, and the American companies' wish to earn money - with no regards to the consequences whatsoever. They don't do this because they are "evil", but simply because they are extremely greedy and unable to think far ahead.

We need to embrace our own culture and we need to have a culture of our own, or else we will all become like the average American (and other capitalists too), who spend more money even on chewing gum than books. We will become disgusting and ultra-egoistic, capitalistic and materialistic, hypocritical and stupid, incompetent and lazy, without any sense of aesthetics or taste, racially indefinable and religiously retarded subhuman scum. Fortunately we have a culture that is our own, and that is our Pagan culture.

How have you changed as a person since you were imprisoned and how do you view Black Metal today? (I'm not referring to current Black Metal, Black Metal of the early to mid 1990's.)

Black Metal was a revolt against the modern world, and in particular against the commercialized (Americanized) Death Metal scene. It was a just revolt, but a bit pointless, because there is really nothing to do when you face a tidal wave. There is no point fighting it. All you can do is to get out of the way, and then return after it is gone, to build a new village on the ruins of the old one.

How I have changed as a person? Pass. I think I will change far more the moment I get out of prison, and I am no longer locked up in a cage with too much time to think about and see all the errors of this thoroughly sick system. I seriously hope I one day will be passionately interested in ordinary humdrum, like most people are, but that won't happen as long as I am in prison or exposed to the persecution of this Soviet system. That's for sure.

What is the most destructive/harmful aspect of Christianity in your opinion?

Probably the internationalism (that leads to the destruction of all human races in favour of one degenerated and spiritually schizophrenic mongrel race with no culture), the cultivation of the insufficient man, the concept of sin and regret, and finally the fact that it is built on a Jewish (id est Asian) belief system that has no roots in our European culture whatsoever.

death?

I am very glad to hear that You are ruminating on my death and how I should die... But, I'll answer your question seriously, assuming You are actually interested in knowing this, and I guess it is a relevant question in context with Burzum anyhow.
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In a sense the most horrible, painful and tragic death one can imagine is the ideal death, because those are the deaths people remember, write stories about and sing songs about. If I am not killed and die a violent death, I think I would prefer to die alone somewhere, or perhaps ask my wife, if I have any, to assist me. If I grow too old and weak, or too sick, I will probably find an old ash tree and simply hang myself, like Odinn and the Pagan initiates did, only I don't intend to return to life (not until I am reborn anyhow). The suicide is the ultimate victory over the body, because the body's natural instincts will force you to try and survive, no matter what, while the spirit and hugr (mind, "soul") always seek to return to the gods. The suicide is also very attractive because it allows me to demonstrate the will to remove the effete, and to give room for the young and healthy, even if the effete is me - and naturally at one point I will become effete too, like we all will.

I must add that even if I don't fear death, I am still usually terrified whenever I am in life-threatening situations, because my natural survival instincts are intact and they take over in extreme situations. Only idiots and "malfunctioning human beings" are without fear.

Death is not only about how you die, though, but also about how you are buried, and I would like my body to be burned on a funeral pyre, and/or be placed in a burial mound on my own property. I don't like the Viking- or even Iron Age burial mounds very much, but prefer the Stone- and Bronze Age burial mounds made of flagstones. These burial mounds could be opened and closed, and they often housed the remains of many generations. These burial mounds were also seen as entrances to the realm of the dead (just like caves, wells, lakes and hollow trees), and like in the fairy tale about Cinderella, when she opens up the gate to the realm of the dead, on her mother's grave, using the holy branch (often a mistletoe), they used them in religious contexts, and especially in initiation mysteries.

Naturally I wish my death can contribute to the future generations' ability to practice our European religion, and I feel that for that to happen we need some good, old burial mounds, with real human remains in them, like my own scarred skeleton.

That covers all my questions, feel free to add anything you want.

The guardian of the dead body and the grave is a goddess, that we know as Freyja or Hel, or simply Freyja-Hel. Her names translate as "love" (Freyja) and "complete", "luck" and "healthy" (Hel), because we will not become complete until we are dead, and we will not find the divine princess, or in the case of women, the divine prince, until we visit the realm of the dead (like Cinderella did). Therefore Hel(l) is called Helvete in Scandinavia, from Norse Helviti, that translates as "visit to Hel", and this journey to Hel and Asgarðr is what we need to achieve oneness with the gods, the unio mystica...

Finally I will thank You for the interest and the at times odd, clichéd and cheesy questions. I hope You appreciate my at times odd, clichéd and cheesy answers.

Greetings from

A wargaR, walking on an overgrown path straight to Hel(l)...


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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#428 Post by Barlog » 13 Jul 2013 16:13

Joost wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Galadriel is a dirty whore, that Hansi f*** in a**. You don't know what you talking about, I feel so much pain!
You bastards I am not joking!!!!!!!! I am not bot, but you all are emptyhead bots.
I love Forgotten Realms like Andre, and I love world of Baldurs Gate2 Shadows of Amn and I am understand music of BG like no other, you are stupid europeoids with snake primitive language that I can even write correctly... Замолчите! Я не для того прошёл сквозь огонь, чтобы разговаривать с такими как вы!
What a shame, freaks of BG, BG MEMBERS you did not help me never!

Oh my. This just has got to be the post of the year. Of 2011, that is What a shame, freaks of BG, BG MEMBERS you did not help me never!.
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#429 Post by Barlog » 13 Jul 2013 20:47

Geez! How I long for to be fully accepted here at the Discussion Forum, as a Moral Personality, and a Rational IQ, rather than being seen as some Bum like Hollywood's "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest's" lead-character, McMurty (Jack Nicholson)!

WHO IS GANDALF D' GRIZJE?
Only It's Biographer would know for sure!

Uh, oh yeah! End of an Era? "nikitabobkov" did actually send me a mono-sybillic personal email too, that I immediately erased out of habit!

And, to all of the Bard's n' esses, whom actually know Hansi Kursch personally? Many moons ago I didst dream that I was in a German Medical Doctors Office, possibly a Psychiatric Office, tho' it looked more like a General Practitioner's to me! There I was faced by a much older man-shaped creature, medium stature, with trad white doctor's long-coat, spectacles, all white or all almost-white hair, of sour facial expression, and an overweight physique! The Voice of Dream's then introduced me there, then, to one, Herr Kursch Senior! Can this description be true?!? Is Hansi's German Dad, a Medical Doctor? And if not? Then what could the Meaning of the Dream have possibly been?

Lastly! Anyone here seen Boob around lately? I myself have been in Mating Season for an excellent 7 years, but still, a very long and very tedious time, for any Principled Daily Orgasmer such as myself! Tell her, if yah know her, that she has until Passover for to make a Permanent Monogamous Grand Return! And if not? Well, let's just say that I'm sure I'll be knocked-up with some Teenage Virgin by Easter Monday!

Special is Fucking For Free Everyday, 2 to 3 times a day at least, Ladies and Germs! Fucking Naked Slut is truly, the only form of Time Passage suitable to any truly Emancipated Slacker! And, Naked Slut, is, a Dime a Dozen (...I think I just might fuck my own Third Cousin!)

"Fuck You And Your Point Of View!"

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Re: Critical Thinking, Rethought, Plus Bonuses!

#430 Post by Barlog » 13 Jul 2013 20:55

Hansi Smurf wrote::?

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Gee Whiz!

I get home from the Library here on Donald St., and suddenly I'm monogamous, emotionally and intelligently, all over again!

Polygamy exists where the Status Of Women is low, in fact!

Yeah, Bardesses, I sure do prefer ya'll Unadulterated, Unbastardized, Undyked (Faggoted), and firm in a determined monogamous drive! I can't wait for to have a son on the way! I just can't wait! I love sex with a firm wife/mother! (and technically, vertiably, so to, did many, many, generations of Kings and Emperors, allowed for to experience polygamous sex-harems, and eventually having them abolished! And perhaps the equal stature of the new love interest might also have something to do with the feelings of firm moral value???)

Carrying on in psycho-sexual rhetoric, I figure that famous faggot, Rob Halford, of Heavy Metal Band, Judas Priest? I figure that as a youth, that some fucked up brain/backbone EMF having Adult/Harlot/Witch/Scold/Eugenicist conspiracy, did veritably come down upon the wee tyke psycho-sexually/psycho-emotionally, and all whilst the boy was in a very innocent, and very, "Neuro-Pathway-based Imprint-Vulnerable state", for to causeth poor lil' Robert for to have his sex drive made unclean, and by such wicked sorcery, you Evil, Eugenic, "there's no such thing as ESP" United Kingdom: huh Satanist Predator Carnivores Evolving? That means technically, to you all, that you are, all of you, linguistically-valued, neutral-evil, "criminals-against-humanity", and so for to be provided by Secular Law, Capital Punishment, and from now on! Yes, my friends and fellow Earthlings, Witch-finding has been re-established down here on Earth at last, and that's some kinda serious Lord Protection right here, my man, Bobkov!

Arise My Creationists, Arise!

How do I begin for to posit towards you all here, these, now to me at least, Scientific Facts?

After Boob did dumpeth me, I did begin for to have a 2 year long face to face Aerobics-a-thon with a certain psychiatric nurse/aerobics instructress! (whom was literally brain-controlled for to unconsciously, physically, for to remove herself from the front of class, for to be replaced by me, physically, and I also in a state of non-self governed brain-override, with the Mind-At-Large, and especially the Liane-robot brain-singularity, citing male superiority override, once I had mastered the class! Far Out, huh? For further evidence of Male Superiority, just watch any gymnastics-meet, whereby the males and females take turns, one after another! The male gymnists are ALL very much more powerful emotionally, and physically, and they all perform, at a very much higher standard! Too, 90% of Wal-Mart employees are female. 90% of Wal-Mart management is male.) Anyway, after two years of class, and only two occasions of overt flirting from the Instructress towards myself, I began for to commit the sin of overt psychic adultery, by doing nothing but sit on my ass all day whilst driving around and masturbating unphysically at said drivers-job; when low and behold - I entered into Keystone Auto for to deliver some parts, whereby the spiritual body of Liane, citing a previous special knowledge of the place's owner, Lou, her spiritual body overcame my own, and ever since then, my asshole has been a re-imprinted fag-detector!

For the whole time that I was in love with Liane, the linguistic/emotional body at Furby Auto insisted that I was a single-white-female, surrounded by, some-but-not-all, desirous all-male company! Imagine the degredation and humiliation of being a straight male, and being faggoted by the Information Field all day "You are a female named Liane and this is how it feels to be her in our environment!" The trip even included one very real incident of being asked OUT LOUD, in a very offhand manner, for to turn an oral-sex-trick!!! (I just can't wait for my Arrar Settlement! $80 Million Dollars, Prime Minister Harper, now: or it's the sword for yah! On Guard, Canada!)

Needless to say, I spent a whole lot of time being very scared, upset, and angry, surrounded by psychic-faggots, most of whom, certainly, still cannot be Confirmed by their Minister! Strangely, as soon as I would leave work, the feelings would disintegrate, just as they would begin, strangely, as soon as I would walk in the Furby Door every morning! (And Thank God For That At Least!)

So, by such a psycho-faggoting experience, I was left for to wonder just what would happen if the psychically web-footed Liane, and her psychically-confirmed family of Greco-Roman/Gypsy/Coptics, had done what they did to me, in a pre-pubescent state? Could I have been faggoted by such nonsense, and would I have been chosen for said trip especially, if I was seen as ugly and beaky and psychopathic and criminal? Or, is my very fertile body already much to, "hard-wired" from birth for it to be so? That is something that I myself, shall never be able for to find out, nor would I ever will just such an experiment, upon any poor wee lad, nor lass, neither!

By the way, I'm very sorry for calling anyone at the Forum a Name like artless, or idiot, or even moron: it's just not true, it is technically obsolete socially, and, it really does hurt everyone's feelings, even my own!

So, until next time, I guess that I'm entitled, societally, for to call ya'll, "nothing-at-all", unless, and until, a much more true, and much more physical collision, doth occur!

Whoo-Whee! Unless my memory is shot, and Psyche is a real bitch goddess, well then, I'm going home today, and giving my new wife a call on the telephone!

Yee-Haw, Wife-Fuckers! HELP TO NIKITA! HELP TO NIKITA! HELP TO NIKITA!

:mrgreen:
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A Long-expected Party[edit]
When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton.
First sentence.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Bilbo's farewell speech.
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began,
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say
'It was a compliment,' said Merry Brandybuck, "and so, of course, not true."
The Shadow of the Past[edit]

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
In the story this is a translation of a verse in the Black Speech.
'I wish it need not have happened in my time,' said Frodo.
'So do I,' said Gandalf, 'and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.'
What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!'
'Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity.'
Frodo and Gandalf
Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many – yours not least.
Gandalf
You say the ring is dangerous, far more dangerous than I guess. In what way?
In many ways. It is far more powerful than I ever dared to think at first, so powerful that in the end it would utterly overcome anyone of mortal race who possessed it. It would possess him.
Frodo and Gandalf
Three is Company[edit]
He often used to say there was only one Road; that it was like a great river: its springs were at every doorstep and every path was its tributary. "It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door," he used to say. "You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no telling where you might be swept off to."
I don't know, and I would rather not guess.
Frodo
Still round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate,
And though we pass them by today,
Tomorrow we may come this way
And take the hidden paths that run
Towards the Moon or to the Sun.
But it is not your own Shire. Others dwelt here before Hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out.
Gildor
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
Gildor
...Seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.
Gildor
A Short Cut to Mushrooms[edit]
'They seem a bit above my likes and dislikes, so to speak,' answered Sam slowly. 'It don't seem to matter what I think about them. They are quite different from what I expected — so old and young, and so gay and sad, as it were.'
Sam speaking of the Elves.
'Short cuts make delays, but inns make longer ones.'
Frodo
Ho! Ho! Ho! to the bottle I go
To heal my heart and drown my woe.
Rain may fall and wind may blow,
And many miles be still to go,
But under a tall tree I will lie,
And let the clouds go sailing by.
Sam and Pippin
In the House of Tom Bombadil[edit]
'Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?'
Tom Bombadil to Frodo.
There were fortresses on the heights. Kings of little kingdoms fought together, and the young Sun shone like fire on the red metal of their new and greedy swords. There was victory and defeat; and towers fell, fortresses were burned, and flames went up into the sky. Gold was piled on the biers of dead kings and queens; and mounds covered them, and the stone doors were shut; and the grass grew over all.
'Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the Little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless—before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'
Tom Bombadil
There’s earth under his old feet, and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his eyes are open.
Tom Bombadil, speaking of Farmer Maggot
Fog on the Barrow-Downs[edit]
That night they heard no noises. But either in his dreams or out of them, he could not tell which, Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to silver and glass, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise.
There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit, waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master:
His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.
Strider[edit]
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
A Knife in the Dark[edit]
Gil-galad was an Elven-king.
Of him the harpers sadly sing:
the last whose realm was fair and free
between the Mountains and the Sea.

His sword was long, his lance was keen,
his shining helm afar was seen;
the countless stars of heaven's field
were mirrored on his silver shield.

But long ago he passed away,
and where he dwelleth none can say;
for into darkness fell his star
in Mordor where the shadows are.
Book II[edit]
Many Meetings[edit]
He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.
Gandalf speaking to himself about Frodo
But all such places will soon become islands under siege, if things go on as they are going. The Dark Lord is putting forth all his strength.
Gandalf speaking to Frodo
I am sorry: sorry you have come in for this burden: sorry about everything. Don't adventures ever have an end? I suppose not. Someone else always has to carry on the story.
Bilbo
Time doesn’t seem to pass here: it just is.
Sam, to Frodo regarding Rivendell
The Council of Elrond[edit]

If any of the Wise should with this Ring overthrow the Lord of Mordor, using his own arts, he would then set himself on Sauron's throne, and yet another Dark Lord would appear...

The only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells;
There shall be counsels taken
Stronger than Morgul-spells.
There shall be shown a token
That Doom is near at hand,
For Isildur's Bane shall waken,
And the Halfling forth shall stand.
Many evil things there are that your strong walls and bright swords do not stay. You know little of the lands beyond your bounds. Peace and freedom, do you say? The North would have known them little but for us.
Aragorn
And yet less thanks have we than you. Travellers scowl at us, and countrymen give us scornful names. 'Strider' I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly. Yet we would not have it otherwise. If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be kept secret to keep them so.
Aragorn
He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
Gandalf to Saruman
It is perilous to study too deeply the arts of the Enemy, for good or for ill. But such falls and betrayals, alas, have happened before.
Elrond, referring to Saruman
I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First; and then Night will come.
Glorfindel
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world. We should seek a final end of this menace, even if we do not hope to make one.
Gandalf
We must take a hard road, a road unforeseen. There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril — to Mordor. We must send the Ring to the Fire.
Elrond
We cannot use the Ruling Ring. That we now know too well. It belongs to Sauron and was made by him alone, and is altogether evil. Its strength, Boromir, is too great for anyone to wield at will, save only those who have already a great power of their own. But for them it holds an even deadlier peril. The very desire of it corrupts the heart.
Elrond
If any of the Wise should with this Ring overthrow the Lord of Mordor, using his own arts, he would then set himself on Sauron's throne, and yet another Dark Lord would appear. And that is another reason why the Ring should be destroyed: as long as it is in the world it will be a danger even to the Wise. For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so. I fear to take the Ring to hide it. I will not take the Ring to wield it.
Elrond
Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.
Gandalf
Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
Gandalf
I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true.
Bilbo
'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.'
Frodo
This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck?
Elrond
The Ring Goes South[edit]
'Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens,' said Gimli.
'Maybe,' said Elrond, 'but let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.'
'Yet sworn word may strengthen quaking heart,' said Gimli.
'Or break it,' said Elrond.
"This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."
Elrond, speaking to the Fellowship
The Bridge of Khazad-dûm[edit]

You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the shadow! You cannot pass.
Well, well! That’s over! I have done all that I could. But I have met my match, and have nearly been destroyed. But don’t stand here! Go on!
Gandalf following his brief, first confrontation with the Balrog of Moria (having been blown down a flight of stairs)
'You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. 'I am servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the shadow! You cannot pass.'
Gandalf confronting the Balrog of Moria
With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and its shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard's knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. 'Fly, you fools!' he cried, and was gone.
Gandalf falling into the chasm above which the Bridge of Khazad-dûm had stood
Lothlórien[edit]
In nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.
The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.
Haldir to the Fellowship
I thought that Elves were all for moon and stars: but this is more elvish than anything I ever heard tell of. I feel as if I was inside a song, if you take my meaning.
Sam, to Frodo
As Frodo prepared to follow him, he laid his hand upon the tree beside the ladder: never before had he been so suddenly and so keenly aware of the feel and texture of a tree’s skin and of the life within it. He felt a delight in wood and the touch of it, neither as forester nor as carpenter; it was the delight of the living tree itself.
The Mirror of Galadriel[edit]
'Speak no evil of the Lady Galadriel! ' said Aragorn sternly. 'You know not what you say. There is in her and in this land no evil, unless a man bring it hither himself.'
It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.
Attributed to the "Old Gaffer" by Samwise Gamgee
“And what do you wish?” he said at last.
“That what should be shall be,” she answered.
Frodo and Galadriel
I will not give you counsel, saying do this, or do that. For not in doing or contriving, nor in choosing between this course and another, can I avail; but only in knowing what was and is, and in part also what shall be.
You may learn something, and whether what you see be fair or evil, that may be profitable, and yet it may not. Seeing is both good and perilous.
And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!
Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others.
Galadriel
'I pass the test,' Galadriel said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.'
Farewell to Lórien[edit]
Oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know.
It is said that the skill of the Dwarves is in their hands rather than in their tongues, yet that is not true of Gimli. For none have ever made to me a request so bold and yet so courteous...I do not foretell, for all foretelling is now vain: on the one hand lies darkness, and on the other only hope. But if hope should not fail, then I say to you, Gimli son of Glóin, that your hands shall flow with gold, and yet over you gold shall have no dominion.
Galadriel
'Tell me, Legolas, why did I come on this Quest? Little did I know where the chief peril lay! Truly Elrond spoke, saying that we could not foresee what we might meet upon our road. Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would have never come, had I known the danger of light and joy.'
Gimli
'Memory is not what the heart desires. That is only a mirror, be it clear as Kheled-zâram. Or so says the heart of Gimli the Dwarf. Elves may see things otherwise. Indeed I have heard that for them memory is more like to the waking world than to a dream. Not so for Dwarves.'
The Great River[edit]
'Time does not tarry ever,' he said; 'but change and growth is not in all things and places alike. For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they do not count the running years, not for themselves. Yet beneath the Sun all things must wear to an end at last.'
Legolas
The Breaking of the Fellowship[edit]
“Whoa, Sam Gamgee!” he said aloud. “Your legs are too short, so use your head!”
It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. I cannot tell you how glad. Come along! It is plain that we were meant to go together. We will go, and may the others find a safe road!

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Barlog
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Re: Can't Dance? Can't Big-Boot? Here's How:

#431 Post by Barlog » 13 Jul 2013 21:03

Hansi Smurf wrote::shock:

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SMURF YOU ARE THE DEBIL FINISHED!
Dancing is just Marching! Just start raising those knees up while any ole' musical beat is playing, and March! 1.2.3.4. 1.2.3.4. Now, just start adding cross over steps, high knee floursihes, body flows, et al! Now you are all be as good as ANY professional choreographer, ever! Don't let anyone pretend authority EVER! Especially scientists, environmentalists, cops, judges, parents, teachers, nor the lawyers and judges of entertainment concerns, neither! "It's your body, and you can do what you like with it!" - the Lord Protector

Big boots tough for you for to achieve painlessly? I was always a bit jealous of my ole' pal Devastating Donald whenever he'd pull out a high straight kick (big boot), whilst I was only abled for to just most feebly raise up a leg, and then just wince from the soreness in the underneath! But thanks to a coupla years of aerobics class, here's a hint:

knee lift = snap-kick = big boot!

All of you can probably raise up a big knee lift! The Big Boot is just the same!

Now, just put on some steel-toed shoes, or boots, get a leg at yer "pals" in town, and BAM! Smashed Mouth City Is Here Again!SMURF YOU ARE THE DEBIL FINISHED!

:shock:
:roll: :roll: :cry:
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The Boy Who Lived[edit]
Mr and Mrs Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.
p. 7
'It's lucky it's dark. I haven't blushed so much since Madam Pomfrey told me she liked my new earmuffs.'
p. 14
Albus Dumbledore
'This boy will be famous, a legend. I wouldn't be surprised if today was known as Harry Potter day in future. There will be books written about Harry, every child in our world will know his name.'
Minerva McGonagall.
'Scars can come in useful. I have one myself above my left knee which is a perfect map of the London Underground.'
p. 17
Albus Dumbledore
Diagon Alley[edit]
Enter stranger, but take heed
Of what awaits the sin of greed,
For those who take, but do not earn
Must pay most dearly in their turn.
So if you seek beneath our floors
A treasure that was never yours,
Thief, you have been warned; beware
Of finding more than treasure there.
p. 57
Engraved on the doors of Gringotts Bank
'Curious indeed how these things happen. The wand chooses the wizard, remember.... I think we must expect great things from you, Mr Potter.... After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things — terrible, yes, but great.'
p. 85
Spoken by Mr Ollivander

vuck you
The Journey from Platform Nine and Three-Quarters[edit]

A Platform Nine and three-quarters sign at King's Cross Station.
"Don't talk rubbish," said Uncle Vernon. "There is no platform nine and three-quarters."
'Fred, you next,' the plump woman said.
'I'm not Fred, I'm George,' said the boy. 'Honestly, woman, you call yourself our mother? Can't you tell I'm George?'
'Sorry, George, dear.'
'Only joking, I am Fred.'
p. 70
'Whatever house I'm in, I hope she's not in it,' said Ron.
p. 106
The Sorting Hat[edit]
Before we begin our banquet, I would like to say a few words. And here they are: Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak! Thank you.
p. 91-92
'Is he — a bit mad?' he asked Percy uncertainly.
'Mad?' said Percy airily. 'He's a genius! Best wizard in the world! But he is a bit mad, yes. Potatoes, Harry?'
p. 92
The Potions Master[edit]
'Ah, yes,' he said softly, 'Harry Potter. Our new — celebrity.'
Snape's first words of the series
p. 101
'You are here to learn the subtle science and exact art of potion-making,' he began. He spoke in barely more than a whisper, but they caught every word — like Professor McGonagall, Snape had the gift of keeping a class silent without effort. 'As there is little foolish wand-waving here, many of you will hardly believe this is magic. I don't expect you will really understand the beauty of the softly simmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, the delicate power of liquids that creep through human veins, bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses ... I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even put a stopper on death — if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach.'
p. 102
Snape was still ignoring Hermione's quivering hand.
"What is the difference, Potter, between monkshood and wolfsbane?"
At this, Hermione stood up, her hand stretching towards the dungeon ceiling.
"I don't know," said Harry quietly. "I think Hermione does, though, why don't you try asking her?"
A few people laughed; Harry caught sight of Seamus's eye and Seamus winked. Snape, however, was not pleased.
"Sit down," he snapped at Hermione. "For your information, Potter, asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death. A bezoar is a stone taken from the stomach of a goat and it will save you from most poisons. As for monkshood and wolfsbane, they are the same plant, which also goes by the name of aconite. Well? Why aren't you all copying that down?"
There was a sudden rummaging for quills and parchment. Over the noise, Snape said, "And a point will be taken from Gryffindor house for your cheek, Potter."
"Take him up to the hospital wing," Snape spat at Seamus. Then he rounded on Harry and Ron, who had been working next to Neville. "You - Potter - why didn't you tell him not to add the quills! Thought he'd make you look good if he got it wrong, did you? That's another point you've lost for Gryffindor."
This was so unfair that Harry opened his mouth to argue, but Ron kicked him behind their cauldron. "Don't push it," he muttered. "I've heard Snape can get pretty nasty."
The Midnight Duel[edit]
'And what if I wave my wand and nothing happens?'
'Throw it away and punch him on the nose,' Ron suggested.
p. 114
'I couldn't help overhearing what you and Malfoy were saying —'
'Bet you could,' Ron muttered.
p. 115
I hope you're pleased with yourselves. We could all have been killed — or worse, expelled.
p. 162
Spoken by Hermione Granger
Halloween[edit]
Wingardium Leviosa!' he shouted, waving his long arms like a windmill.
'You're saying it wrong,' Harry heard Hermione snap. 'It's Wing-gar-dium Levi-o-sa, make the "gar" nice and long.'
'You do it, then, if you're so clever' Ron snarled.
Hermione rolled up the sleeves of her gown, flicked her wand and said, Wingardium Leviosa!'
Their feather rose off the desk and hovered about four feet above their heads.
p. 127
There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.
p. 132
The Mirror of Erised[edit]
"I do feel so sorry," said Draco Malfoy, one Potions class, "for all those people who have to stay at Hogwarts for Christmas because they're not wanted at home."
'There was a lot more to magic, as Harry quickly found out, than waving your wand and saying a few funny words.'
p. 133
'You haven't got a letter on yours,' George observed. 'I suppose she thinks you don't forget your name. But we're not stupid — we know we're called Gred and Forge.'
p. 149
"It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that."
p. 157
'One can never have enough socks,' said Dumbledore.
p. 157
Nicolas Flamel[edit]
'Don't play,' said Hermione at once.
'Say you're ill,' said Ron.
'Pretend to break your leg,' Hermione suggested.
' Really break your leg,' said Ron.
p. 159 (Said to Harry when they heard Snape was going to be the referee for the Quidditch match.)
Longbottom, if brains were gold you'd be poorer than Weasley, and that's saying something.
p. 163
Spoken by Draco Malfoy
Norbert the Norwegian Ridgeback[edit]
I tell you, that dragon's the most horrible animal I've ever met, but the way Hagrid goes on about it, you'd think it was a fluffy little bunny rabbit. When it bit me he told me off for frightening it. And when I left, he was singing it a lullaby.
p. 173
Spoken by Ron Weasley
Malfoy's got detention! I could sing! -Hermione
Through the Trapdoor[edit]
Neville will play Quidditch for England before Hagrid lets Dumbledore down.
p. 192
'You want to be more careful,' said Snape. 'Hanging around like this, people will think you're up to something. And Gryffindor really can't afford to lose any more points, can they? … Be warned, Potter — any more night-time wanderings and I will personally make sure you are expelled. Good day to you.'
p. 195
'One of us has got to keep an eye on Snape — wait outside the staff room and follow him if he leaves it. Hermione, you'd better do that.'
'Why me?'
'It's obvious,' said Ron. 'You can pretend to be waiting for Professor Flitwick, you know.' He put on a high voice, 'Oh Professor Flitwick, I'm so worried, I think I got question fourteen b wrong...'
'Oh, shut up,' said Hermione.
p. 196
"Devil's Snare, Devil's Snare... What did Professor Sprout say? It likes the dark and the damp-"
"So light a fire!" Harry choked.
"Yes - of course - but there's no wood!" Hermione cried, wringing her hands.
"HAVE YOU GONE MAD?" Ron bellowed. "ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT?"
shortly after
"Lucky you pay attention in Herbology, Hermione," said Harry as he joined her by the wall, wiping sweat from his face.
"Yeah," said Ron, "and lucky Harry doesn't lose his head in a crisis - "there's no wood", honestly."
'Harry — you're a great wizard, you know.'
'I'm not as good as you,' said Harry, very embarrassed, as she let go of him.
'Me!' said Hermione. 'Books! And cleverness! There are more important things — friendship and bravery and —'
p. 287
The Man with Two Faces[edit]
There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it …
p. 291
Spoken by Professor Quirell, quoting Lord Voldemort (Lord Voldemort in the film)
What happened down in the dungeons between you and Professor Quirrel is a complete secret, so, naturally, the whole school knows. I believe your friends Misters Fred and George Weasley were responsible for trying to send you a lavatory seat.
p. 214
To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
p. 297
Humans do have a knack for choosing precisely those things which are worst for them.
p. 215
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
p. 298
'The truth.' Dumbledore sighed. 'It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.'
p. 216
Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot understand, it is love. He didn't realize that love as powerful as your mother's for you leaves its own mark.
p. 216
"Yes, him - Snape said he hates me because he hated my father. Is that true?"
"Well, they did rather detest each other. Not unlike yourself and Mr Malfoy. And then, your father did something Snape could never forgive."
"What?"
"He saved his life."
"What?"
"Yes ..." said Dumbledore dreamily. "Funny, the way people's minds work, isn't it?"
:idea: :idea:
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#432 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 15:11

Bender B. Rodriguez wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Does anyboby knows why Kursh shaved his hair away??? He was so beautiful with long brown hair! Why he so angry of them - this is not hair prevent band to play normal for fans, write cool speedpetal album, this is Frederic Emke made Hansi bald, he is controll all process in band, he is servant of Mordor prevent it all! I vote to banished the bald!
:mrgreen:

and it keeps piling up :o FOTO OF HIM!!!! FOTO OF HIM!!!
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#433 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 15:16

End Of An Era wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:When I am started listen Blind Guardian in deep October 2005 I started to suffer. Hansi Kursh, Andre Albrich, Markus Ziepen, Tuomen Stauch, Frederic Umke, Matthias Wiesner, Oliver Holzwarth, Kai Hansen, Andi Deris, Michael Weikat, Marcus Grosskopf, you are guilty fuck you all... Fuck you all. You always kill people like Ingo Schwichtenberg! Understand?
Before you edit this post aswell i want to make sure everybody reads this. :)
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#434 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 15:19

Insanity wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Hey, Insanity, what is your profile hide? Stupid young girl? Girls don't listen Blind Guardian!
I am certainly flattered you consider me young. That's so sweet of you!
But I can assure you that the inexistance of a penis near my pelvis does not exclude me from the pleasures of chosing what sort of music I chose to listen to.
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#435 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 15:23

Desert_Storm wrote:n an Internet forum that are all just laughing at how strange you behave.
No no no you got it all wrong didn't you listen to tom cruise? Psychiatry is evil!

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Honestly, I'm not the biggest fan of psychiatry either (basically I think quite often medication is prescribed without this being necessary, but that's another topic enitrely), but for some people psychiatry really is the only solution. ;)[/quote]

I would add some thoughts here too if it wasn't completely out of topic... wait a second, what is this topic meant to be about? ;)
Bender B. Rodriguez wrote:how about lobotomy? :mrgreen:

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Whose Line Is It Anyway, anyone? A great drinking song, check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl5cJ-Gz0MY
not the best one they did for sure, but for those who don't know it, it's all improvised :)[/quote]

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Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
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Oblivion is the fourth installment in the Elder Scrolls Series, a video game created by Bethesda Softworks. It chronicles the journey of an escaped prisoner as he attempts to close the doors to the demonic world of Oblivion and save Cyrodiil from its utter destruction. There are many guilds and quests to participate in, along with thousands of characters to interact with.Contents [hide]
1 Main Quest characters
1.1 The Septims
1.1.1 Emperor Uriel Septim VII
1.2 Mythic Dawn Cultists
1.2.1 Mythic Dawn Agents
1.2.2 Mankar Camoran
2 Secondary (Guild) Quest characters
2.1 The Dark Brotherhood
2.1.1 Lucien Lachance
2.1.2 Vicente Valtieri
2.1.3 Ocheeva
2.2 The Arena
2.2.1 Owyn

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2.2.2 Agronak gro-Malog
2.2.3 Blue Team Gladiator
2.3 Fighters' Guild
2.3.1 Random Members
2.4 Thieves' Guild
2.4.1 Ongar The World-Weary
2.4.2 Thieves Guild Members
3 Shivering Isles
3.1 Sheogorath
3.2 Bolwing
4 Miscellaneous Characters
4.1 Random NPCs
4.2 Guards and Soldiers

Main Quest characters[edit]
The Septims[edit]

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Emperor Uriel Septim VII[edit]
"I was born 87 years ago. For 65 years I've ruled as Tamriel's emperor. But for all these years, I've never been the ruler of my own dreams. I have seen the gates of Oblivion, beyond which no waking eye may see. Behold, in darkness a doom sweeps the land. This is the 27th of Last Seed, the year of Akatosh, 433. These are the closing days of the 3rd Era...and the final hours of my life."
(when the player starts his/her first conversation with him) You. I've seen you before. Let me see your face. You are the one from my dreams. Then the stars were right, and this is the day. Gods give me strength.
"Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour."

It is perhaps worth noting that Uriel Septim's dialog borrowed at times from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. (Example: "A tongue shriller than all the music..." [1])
↑ [1],Open Source Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
Mythic Dawn Cultists[edit]
Mythic Dawn Agents[edit]
[when provoked to attack] "Lord Dagon will welcome your soul in Oblivion!"
[when killed] "Paradise awaits and I do not fear death."
Mankar Camoran[edit]
"So, the cat's-paw of the Septims arrives at last. You didn't think you could take me unawares, here of all places? In the Paradise that I created? Look now, upon my Paradise, Gaiar Alata, in the old tongue. A vision of the past... and the future. Behold the Savage Garden, where my disciples are tempered for a higher destiny: to rule over Tamriel Reborn. If you are truly the hero of destiny, as I hope, the Garden will not hold you for long. Lift your eyes to Carac Agaialor, my seat at the pinnacle of Paradise. I shall await you there."
Secondary (Guild) Quest characters[edit]
The Dark Brotherhood[edit]
Lucien Lachance[edit]
"Dear Brother, I do not spread rumours, I create them."
"You sleep rather soundly for a murderer."
Vicente Valtieri[edit]
"You are like a Dark Gift from the Night Mother herself. Please, tell me how I can help."
"Please, do not let my appearance... unnerve you. I assure you that the needs and Tenets of the Dark Brotherhood come before my own needs as a vampire."
Ocheeva[edit]
"May the Night Mother wrap you in her cold, loving embrace."
The Arena[edit]
Owyn[edit]
[first greeting] "I don't know who you are friend, but you've got about ten seconds to tell me what you're doing in my Bloodworks before I lop your arms off."
[if low rank in Arena] "I heard a rumor that you're an idiot. Any truth to that?"
[if high rank in Arena] "Agronak is good, yeah, too good. He says he's only half orc. What I wanna know is: what's the other half? 'Cause it sure ain't human."
Agronak gro-Malog[edit]
"I'm no "Grey Prince". I'm a monster."
"I thought my father was a nobleman. Not some bloodsucking monster."
"What are you waiting for? Kill me. Can't you see? It's what I want! I can't go on knowing I'm something horrid. Kill me."
Agronak's last words if you told him of his vampiric lineage.
Blue Team Gladiator[edit]
"You--you killed Agronak...he was my friend. My mentor. Congratulations, "Grand Champion". Hope it was worth it."
If you killed Agronak, regardless of whether he wanted to die or not.
Fighters' Guild[edit]
Random Members[edit]
[if Master of the Fighter's Guild] "Yes Master, you need me?"
[if low ranking in the Fighter's Guild] "Move your ass, boot."
[if low ranking in the Fighter's Guild] "Go hurt something."
Thieves' Guild[edit]
Ongar The World-Weary[edit]
[when finished bartering] "I'm glad that's done. I need a nap."
Thieves Guild Members[edit]
"Shadow hide you."
"I see you are a follower of the Gray Fox."
Shivering Isles[edit]
Sheogorath[edit]
"Ta! Come see me again, or I'll pluck your eyes out! Hahahaha!"
"Wonderful! Time for a celebration... Cheese for everyone! Wait, scratch that. Cheese for no one. That can be just as much of a celebration, if you don't like cheese. True?"
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"
"They're getting more active every day. Not a good sign. You know what would be a good sign? "Free Sweetrolls!" Who wouldn't like that?"
"Why not? Something has to work. Once, I dug a pit and filled it with clouds. Or was it clowns? Doesn't matter. It didn't slow him down. To be honest, it wasn't the best idea. And it really began to smell. Must have been clowns. Clouds don't smell bad. They taste of butter! And tears."
"Jyggalag! He is the Prince of Order. Or biscuits...no, Order! And not in a good way. Bleak. Colorless. Dead. Boring, boring, boring! And not a fan of my work, I can tell you. Hates it, hates me. You've seen his knights. Not the warm and cuddly sort."
"And Xedilian? Seeing as you're standing here, I assume you've succeeded. Or you're terribly confused. Or really lacking in good judgment!"
"Go talk to Haskill, he's got more brains than a brain pie...hmmmm...brain pie... perfect!! Care to donate???"
"Guards! Show Thadon out to the door, before he forgets...or I forget myself."
"Mountains will be moved! Movements will be mounted!"
"You're making my teeth itch!"
"Get going. Before I change my mind...or my mind changes me."
"I'm so happy to see you I could just..tear out your intestines and strangle ye with 'em!"
"Quickly! Before I get bored. You wouldn't like me when I'm bored."
"Cat's out of the bag on that one, isn't it? Who puts cats in bags, anyway? Cats hate bags."
"I can see it in your face! Mostly in your eyes. I may have to take them when this is done."
"You dare interrupt me! Only I interrupt me! Like just then. I'm speaking with someone! We'll talk later. Or not. When is later, exactly? Not now, I'm sure of that."
Bolwing[edit]
"I'll Kalicrak the Findoo. I will. You Terratet it!"
"Rany Roo! Rany Roo!"
"I saw the Zaxer. And I magged it too. Aw, fribble!"
"Tell the daen! Tell the daen! Karn sky is relfing."
"Fribble! Just Fribble!"
"Gal bursten it."
(When accused during the Conspiracy to kill Syl) Naryan that! I'll balitoe before I krayble.
(On Obelisks) Grundy obelisks! Always tetterating knights and festars. Use the dookas to fix them.
(On Scalons) Dark-dark. We've been yinging a zeffle.
(On Shambles) Give them gargen to emeet with.
(On Elytra) They die quickly if you jejinak them. Jejinak! Jejinak!
(On Baliwogs) Foul tergens they are. Heffin all of them.
(On Skeletal Hounds) Sendockle the Klen. Do you understand? The Klen!
(On Heretics) Gorble. Can't you hear them gorbling?
(On Zealots) I've got a Quintat that says they can ipanate
(On Sleeping Outside) Friend no dorpidity? Communce to Uungor. Uungor communces he no deliriotic, that he mented fine. But Uungor is very deliriotic. Oversit me?
(On Quests) Have zickle to it. Nobody does rebby zickles any more.
Miscellaneous Characters[edit]
Random NPCs[edit]
"Well met!"
[with security skill over 70] "You've got some nimble fingers. What have you been getting them into?"
[with athletics skill over 70] "You're a fit one, been running a lot?"
[if you complete the arena] "By the nine divines! You're the grand champion, this is truly an honour!!"
[with high strength level] "Look at the muscles on you!"
[With acrobatics skill over 70] "You've got a bounce to your step. I bet you're quite the acrobat."
[With sneak skill over 70] "You're a sneaky looking sort.."
"By the gods, there's a psychopath on the loose!"
[when fighting someone] "Why... won't... you... die?!"
[when fighting someone] "This is the part where you fall down and bleed to death!"
[when fighting someone] "I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than you!"
Guards and Soldiers[edit]
"Stop right there, criminal scum!"
"What do you need, citizen?"
"You have my ear, citizen."
[If they have a moderate disposition towards you] "Good day, citizen."
[If you have a high Infamy rating] "Keep moving, scum!"
[Upon seeing a dead body] "Someone's been murdered!"
[when in contact] "Duty calls."
[If you have completed the Battle of Kvatch] Why...why its you, the hero of Kvatch! It is truly an honor.
"By the Nine Divines! Assault!"
"Stop! You have violated the law! Pay the court a fine or serve your sentence."
[Upon resisting arrest] "Then pay with your blood!"
"Hope you rot."
[After completing the main quest] "All hail the champion of Cyrodiil!"
[After completing the main quest] "It is truly an honor."
[After murdering someone] "You. I've seen your kind before. You've got blood on your hands. Keep your blade sheathed, you murdering bastard, or I'll put you down myself."

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#436 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 16:05

Andreas wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:The "Wheel of time" is a dementia of BG members. They are need a new good producer like me for example right now!. Too many scream, too many chores, voices, sounds, unplaceble things, nonsense - dementia after loosing of Tuomas Stauch. Understand?
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Understood, but not agreed. WRITE SECOND RIDE THE LIGHTNING BG MEMBERS!

Anyway, on that islam forum I saw you mention you have no money to buy drugs. I take it you want to ease your misery by doing drugs. How will this help you or your family on the long term?

Drugs are bad, m'kay
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For the album by Marshmallow Coast, see Ride the Lightning (Marshmallow Coast album).
"The Call of Ktulu" redirects here. For the short story by H. P. Lovecraft, see The Call of Cthulhu.Ride the Lightning

Studio album by Metallica
Released July 27, 1984[1]
Recorded February 20 - March 14, 1984 at Sweet Silence Studios, Copenhagen, Denmark
Genre Thrash metal
Length 47:23
Label Megaforce
Producer Metallica, Flemming Rasmussen, Mark Whitaker
Metallica chronology
Kill 'Em All
(1983) Ride the Lightning
(1984) Master of Puppets
(1986)


Singles from Ride the Lightning
"Creeping Death"
Released: November 23, 1984[2]


Ride the Lightning is the second studio album by American thrash metal band Metallica, released on July 30, 1984, through independent record label Megaforce Records. It was certified gold by the RIAA on November 5, 1987, and 6x platinum on December 13, 2012.[3]Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Reception
2.1 Critical
2.2 Accolades
3 Bernett's misprint
4 Songs
4.1 Fight Fire with Fire
4.2 Ride the Lightning
4.3 For Whom the Bell Tolls
4.4 Fade to Black
4.5 Trapped Under Ice
4.6 Escape
4.7 Creeping Death
4.8 The Call of Ktulu
5 Singles
6 Track listing
7 Personnel
8 Chart positions
8.1 Album
9 Certification
10 References

Background[edit]

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In July 1983, Metallica released their debut studio album, titled Kill 'Em All through Megaforce Records. On February 20, 1984, the band began work on their second album, titled Ride the Lightning, at Sweet Silence Studios, Copenhagen, Denmark.[1][4] The album was produced under Flemming Rasmussen, founder of Sweet Silence Studios,[5] who also went on to produce the band's following two albums: Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All.[1] Metallica finished recording Ride the Lightning on March 14, 1984, and it was released through Megaforce on July 30.[4] On September 12, Metallica signed with major label Elektra Records who re-released the album on November 19.[4]

Ride the Lightning is the last Metallica album to credit former lead guitarist Dave Mustaine with co-writing any songs.[1] He was kicked out of the band in 1983, prior to the recording of Kill Em' All.[6] He is credited on the title track, "Ride the Lightning", and instrumental track "The Call of Ktulu".[1] The album is also the first for which lead guitarist Kirk Hammett is given writing credits.[1]
Reception[edit]
Critical[edit]Professional ratings
Review scores
Source Rating
Allmusic [7]
Q [8]
Rolling Stone [9]
Piero Scaruffi [10]
Sputnikmusic 5.0/5 [11]


Q - 5 stars out of 5 - "Reaffirms their status as the pre-eminent metal band of the modern era....They broke with the conventions of thrash metal to record the genre's first power ballad in 'Fade to Black'."

Kerrang! (p. 50) - "[The album included] melody, maturity and musical intelligence. It was these traits which helped them broaden metal's scope."
Accolades[edit]

Chad Bowar writing for About.com, listed Ride the Lightning as the second best Metallica album behind Master of Puppets.[12] He said that Ride the Lightning was another big step forward from their groundbreaking debut album.[12] Steve Peake, also writing for About.com, names "Ride the Lightning", "For Whom the Bell Tolls", "Fade to Black" and "Escape" in his list of the "Top 10 Metallica Songs of the '80s".[13] The album was listed at #5 by IGN Music on their "Top 25 Metal Albums".[14] Ride the Lightning was voted best thrash metal album of all time by DECIBEL magazine in their Thrash Metal Hall of Fame Special Issue in November 2011.
Bernett's misprint[edit]

In 1984, the French record label Bernett Records misprinted the color of the album cover in green, rather than blue. 400 copies with the green cover were pressed. Because of their rarity, this misprint caused these green albums to become a collectors' item.[15]
Songs[edit] "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
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"Fade to Black"
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"Creeping Death"
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Fight Fire with Fire[edit]

The introduction to "Fight Fire with Fire" displays Metallica's evolving towards a more harmonically complex style of songwriting. The lyrical themes focus on revenge and Armageddon, resulting in the end of the world.

The song was covered by Apocalyptica on their album Cult, as well as by Polish death metal band Vader, released as a bonus track on their album Necropolis. Black metal band Abigail Williams also covered "Fight Fire with Fire" as a bonus track to their 2010 album In the Absence of Light.

The song is featured in the indie film Hesher and in the video game Guitar Hero: Metallica, along with "For Whom the Bell Tolls", "Fade to Black" and "Creeping Death".

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In bassist Flea's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee speech for Metallica, he cited this as being the first Metallica song he heard.
Ride the Lightning[edit]

"Ride the Lightning" is Metallica's first song which directly highlighted the misery of the criminal justice system; the lyrics are written from the perspective of someone who is anticipating death by electrocution. The song is one of two on the album that credits Dave Mustaine. It was also released as downloadable content for the music video game Rock Band.
For Whom the Bell Tolls[edit]
Main article: For Whom the Bell Tolls (Metallica song)

The lyrics of "For Whom the Bell Tolls" are based on the Ernest Hemingway novel by the same name; said novel is about the horror and dishonor of modern warfare.

The chromatic introduction, which was written by bassist Cliff Burton before joining Metallica,[16] is often mistaken for an electric guitar; actually, it is Burton's bass guitar attentuated with distortion and a wah-wah pedal.

"For Whom the Bell Tolls" has been covered by several bands; most notably, by punk rock band Shotgun Remedy on the album A Punk Tribute to Metallica, by Apocalyptica on the album Inquisition Symphony and by Sunn O))) on its album Flight of the Behemoth. It was also the opening song for the 2009 movie Zombieland. At WWE's pay-per-view Wrestlemania XXVII, Triple H used it as his theatrical entrance music, but on the DVD, it was replaced with an in-house rendition of the song due to copyrights.
Fade to Black[edit]
Main article: Fade to Black (song)

"Fade to Black" is a power ballad. The lyrics suggest a man's contemplation of his eventual suicide. Musically, the song begins with a clean, undistorted guitar introduction and becomes progressively heavier and faster, similar to Metallica's future ballads, "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)", "One" and "The Day That Never Comes".

Kirk Hammett's guitar solo on the song was ranked #24 on the 100 Best Solos Ever Reader's Choice in the September 1998 issue of Guitar World.[17]

Many notable bands have covered "Fade to Black", including Apocalyptica, Apoptygma Berzerk, Disturbed, Sonata Arctica, Steel Prophet, The Lemonheads, and Iron Horse.
Trapped Under Ice[edit]

"Trapped Under Ice" is about a person trapped in a cryogenics chamber. It is based upon a demo song of Hammett's former band Exodus entitled "Impaler", which was later released on its album Tempo of the Damned (2004).

The song is a playable track in Guitar Hero: World Tour. "Trapped Under Ice" was covered by parody metal band Austrian Death Machine on its 2009 album Double Brutal.
Escape[edit]

Originally entitled "The Hammer", the track has only been performed live, in its entirety, one time. It was first played at the first Orion Music + More music festival at Bader Field, Atlantic City, New Jersey on June 23, 2012, while performing Ride the Lightning in its entirety, though it was previously jammed during the encore at the last concert of the World Magnetic Tour.

"Escape" was covered by the American heavy metal band Hatebreed on its 2009 album For the Lions and also by French progressive death metal band Gojira.
Creeping Death[edit]
Main article: Creeping Death

"Creeping Death" describes the Plague of the Death of the Firstborn (Exodus 12:29). The lyrics deal with the ten plagues on Egypt, and throughout the song, four of them are mentioned as well as the Passover.

The bridge of the song (with the recognizable lyrics "Die, by my hand!") was written by Hammett in Exodus for the song "Die by His Hand". The song was recorded and released by Exodus as a demo, but never featured on a studio album.

"Creeping Death" was covered by Welsh glam metal band Tigertailz for a b-side in 1990, Welsh metalcore band Bullet for My Valentine on Kerrang!'s 25th Anniversary Higher Voltage compilation disk, the Italian black metal band Stormlord as a live track on its extended play The Curse of Medusa, and by rock band Drowning Pool on the Ozzfest 2002 live album. The intro was interpolated by ska band, The O.C. Supertones on the title track of their second album, Supertones Strike Back.
The Call of Ktulu[edit]

"The Call of Ktulu" is the eighth and final track on the album. It is Metallica's second instrumental, following the first instrumental "(Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth" from Kill 'Em All. The song's working title was "When Hell Freezes Over".

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The idea of the piece "The Call of Ktulu" is based upon H. P. Lovecraft's book The Shadow Over Innsmouth which was first introduced to the rest of the band by Cliff Burton. The piece's name was taken from one of H.P. Lovecraft's main stories featuring Cthulhu, The Call of Cthulhu, which was written in 1928 for the magazine Weird Tales. The name "Ktulu" is originally written "Cthulhu" by H.P. Lovecraft.

"The Call of Ktulu" is also the last piece to include songwriting credit for Mustaine. He later recorded the song "Hangar 18" for Megadeth's 1990 album Rust in Peace using a very similar idea. Both pieces have the same D minor chord progression in the intro.

The song was re-arranged by Michael Kamen for Metallica's 1999 S&M project and won a Grammy for the best rock instrumental performance in 2000.[18]
Singles[edit]
"For Whom the Bell Tolls" was released as a promo single with two versions of the song, an edited version on side A and the album version on side B.
"Creeping Death" was released as a single, with the b-side also known as Garage Days Revisited (precursor to the extended play The $5.98 E.P.: Garage Days Re-Revisited, released in 1987): covers of "Am I Evil?" (originally by Diamond Head) and "Blitzkrieg" (originally by Blitzkrieg). Both of the b-side cover songs were included as bonus tracks on the 1988 reissue of Kill 'Em All. They were later featured on the Garage, Inc. compilation.
"Fade to Black" was released as a promo single in 1984, in black vinyl and glow in the dark green.
Track listing[edit]

All lyrics written by James Hetfield, except "Creeping Death" by Hetfield and Kirk Hammett. No. Title Music Length
1. "Fight Fire with Fire" Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Cliff Burton 4:45
2. "Ride the Lightning" Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton, Dave Mustaine 6:36
3. "For Whom the Bell Tolls" Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton 5:09
4. "Fade to Black" Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton, Hammett 6:57
5. "Trapped Under Ice" Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett 4:04
6. "Escape" Hetfield, Ulrich, Hammett 4:23
7. "Creeping Death" Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton, Hammett 6:36
8. "The Call of Ktulu" (Instrumental) Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton, Mustaine 8:53
Total length: 47:23
Digital reissue bonus tracks[19]
No. Title Length
9. "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Live in Seattle, 1989) 5:34
10. "Creeping Death" (Live in Seattle, 1989) 8:12
Total length: 61:12

Personnel[edit]Metallica
James Hetfield – lead vocals, rhythm guitar, acoustic guitar, 12-string guitar
Lars Ulrich – drums
Cliff Burton – bass guitar, backing vocals
Kirk Hammett – lead guitar Technical personnel
Flemming Rasmussen – production, engineering
Metallica – production, cover concept
Mark Whitaker – executive producer
Tom Coyne; Frankford Wayne – mastering on Megaforce release
Bob Ludwig – mastering on Elektra release
George Marino – remastering on 1995 reissue
Mike Gillies – mixing of digital reissue bonus tracks
AD Artists – cover design
Fin Costello; Anthony D. Somella; Robert Hoetink; Pete Cronin; Rick Brackett; Harold Oimen – photography

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Chart positions[edit]
Album[edit]Chart Peak position
Australian Albums (ARIA)[20] 38
Finnish Albums (Musiikkituottajat)[21] 9
Norwegian Albums (VG-lista)[22] 40
Swedish Albums (Sverigetopplistan)[23] 22
UK Albums (OCC)[24] 87
US Billboard 200[25] 100

Certification[edit]Region Certification Sales/shipments
Canada (Music Canada)[26] Platinum 100,000^
United States (RIAA)[27] 6× Platinum 6,000,000^

*sales figures based on certification alone
^shipments figures based on certification alone
xunspecified figures based on certification alone

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#437 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 16:40

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Last edited by Barlog on 14 Jul 2013 16:46, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#438 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 16:41

End Of An Era wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Oh, I see you really wanna be punished... I am already took my belt. Your eyes will be full of tears, small, dirty, evil child...
my eyes are already filled with tears. i haven't laughed this hard in a long time!! LOST TO APATHY! LOST TO APATHY! LOST TO APATHY! :lol:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZqfH1LQEOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZqfH1LQEOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJT12-wrCY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJT12-wrCY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGT7IY91jIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGT7IY91jIE

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Last edited by Barlog on 14 Jul 2013 17:22, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#439 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 16:56

nikitabobkov wrote:Oh yeah... Andre, you must listen me.
Tom Cruise will not help me I believe in this. I am dying so many times, I feel so bad so bad so many pain and fear, but Tom Cruise will not help me I will see that. I am waiting for this you will see my victory or defeat. I am not became a normal human of mankind. Let's create a humour replacing my suffering, you stupid girls!
[/color]

TOM, Чёрт тебя возьми, CONTINUE FUNNY YAEH!??? OR STOP YOUR MOTHERFCK LAUGHING!!!
:twisted: :twisted:
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:lol: :lol:
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:P :P
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#440 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 17:47

jouzinka wrote:
Insanity wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:What a beautiful mouth you have... Ehhh... Whoooore...
Charming fella, isn't he?
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#441 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 17:48

Joost wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Image

What is going on in Children of Bodom band??? God, save the Guardians and Hansi from that!
Really, what's the problem with two men kissing each other?
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Re: 111

#442 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 17:55

Hansi Smurf wrote:"Number One-Eleven!"
"Number One-Eleven!"

That Is The Number Of The Imperial Scanning Team Whom Invade The Millenium Falcon Once It Has Been Tractor-Beamed Into The Death Star's Insides' During Star Wars Episode IV. The Number III Is Written Upon The Side Of The Scanning Equipment: A Voice Recites The Opening Lines From This Post!

That Must Be What Nikitabobkov Is Getting At!

As For Protection?

BLIND GUARDIAN Cannot Protect Us! No One Can Protect Us! The Technology Is Far! Far! Too Advanced! For The Slack Of Any Of Us! To Be Taken From Any Of Us! By Any Of Us!





"The bigger they are, the harder they...? WHAT!?! NO WAY!?!"
"The Smaller They Are The Easier They Are To Break! Now that's a REAL colloquial saying, yup!"

:mrgreen:
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:mrgreen: :evil: :?: :D :arrow:
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#443 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 18:26

End Of An Era wrote:
nikitabobkov wrote:Nikita... No.... My name is not Nikita.... Haaa.... Little stupid humans...
Thief, thief, thief! Guardians! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it foreveeeer!
ROFL!

this is getting better and better!! *grabs popcorn*
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#444 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 18:27

Barlog wrote:
jouzinka wrote:http://www.metboard.com/index.php?s=083 ... ntry146325

8)

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Even with a sense of humor. :lol:
I am not masturbating even, because I feel acute pain instead of this.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :cry: :cry: :evil:

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#445 Post by Barlog » 14 Jul 2013 18:32

Andreas wrote:I love it how you highjacked that lunatic's thread :mrgreen:
:? :? :!: :?: :arrow:
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Они хотят посадить меня в психиатрическую клинику пожизненно и превратить в растение, я ничего сам не могу сделать сам, одумайтесь и примите решение помочь мне.
They want to put me in a mental institution for life and turn into a plant, I have nothing he can not do himself, come to your senses and decide to help me.


:oops: :cry: :evil: :mrgreen: :D :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :roll: :arrow: :arrow:

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#446 Post by Barlog » 16 Jul 2013 16:48

!!!!

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:P :x :lol:

!!!

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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#447 Post by Barlog » 16 Jul 2013 17:12

Bert wrote:I have no idea what's going on in this thread but it frightens be greatly.
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Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD, similar to hyperkinetic disorder in the ICD) is a psychiatric disorder[1] or neurobehavioral disorder[2] characterized by significant difficulties either of inattention and/or hyperactivity and impulsiveness. Symptoms emerge before seven years of age.[3] There are three subtypes of the disorder which consist of it being predominantly inattentive (ADHD-PI or ADHD-I), predominantly hyperactive-impulsive (ADHD-HI or ADHD-H), or the two combined (ADHD-C), which shows all three difficulties. Often people refer to ADHD-PI as "attention deficit disorder" (ADD), however, the latter has not been officially accepted since the 1994 revision of the DSM. ADHD impacts school-aged children and results in restlessness, acting impulsively, and lack of focus which may impair school performance.

It is the most commonly studied and diagnosed psychiatric disorder in children and adolescents, affecting about 6 to 7 percent of children[4] and is diagnosed in about 2 to 16 percent of school-aged children.[5] It is often a chronic disorder[6] with 30 to 50 percent of those individuals diagnosed in childhood continuing to have symptoms into adulthood.[7] It is estimated that between 2 and 5 percent of adults live with ADHD.[1] ADHD is diagnosed two to four times more frequently in boys than in girls.[8][9] Its symptoms can be difficult to differentiate from other disorders, increasing the likelihood that the diagnosis of ADHD will be missed.[10] In addition, most clinicians have not received formal training in the assessment and treatment of ADHD, in particular in adult patients.[10] Standardized rating scales can be used for ADHD screening and assessment of the disorder's symptoms' severity.[11]

ADHD management usually involves some combination of medications, behavior therapy, lifestyle changes, and counseling. Medications are only recommended as a first-line treatment option in children who have severe symptoms. Medication therapy can also be considered for those with moderate ADHD symptoms who either refuse psychotherapeutic options or else fail to respond to psychotherapeutic input.[12]:p.317 Adolescents and adults with ADHD tend to develop coping mechanisms to compensate for some or all of their impairments.[13]

ADHD and its diagnosis and treatment have been considered controversial since the 1970s.[14] The controversies have involved clinicians, teachers, policymakers, parents and the media. Topics include ADHD's causes, and the use of stimulant medications in its treatment.[15][16] Most healthcare providers accept ADHD as a genuine disorder—debate in the scientific community centers mainly around how it is diagnosed and treated.[17][18][19] The National Institute for Clinical Excellence, while acknowledging the controversy, states that the current treatments and methods of diagnosis are based on the dominant view of the academic literature.[12]:p.133Contents [hide]

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1 Signs and symptoms
1.1 Associated disorders
2 Cause
2.1 Genetics
2.2 Executive function
2.3 Evolution
2.4 Environmental
2.5 Social
3 Pathophysiology
4 Diagnosis
4.1 Classification
4.2 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
4.3 International Classification of Diseases
4.4 Other guidelines
4.5 Differential
5 Management
5.1 Psychosocial
5.2 Medication
6 Prognosis
7 Epidemiology
8 History
9 Society and culture
9.1 Controversies
10 Special populations
10.1 Adults
10.2 High IQ children
11 References
12 External links

Signs and symptoms

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Children with ADHD tend to get distracted from schoolwork rather easily, and they often behave disruptively.[20]

Inattention, hyperactivity, disruptive behavior, and impulsivity are common in ADHD.[20][21] Academic difficulties are also frequent.[20] The symptoms are especially difficult to define because it is hard to draw a line at where normal levels of inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity end and clinically significant levels requiring intervention begin.[22] To be diagnosed with ADHD, symptoms must be observed in two different settings for six months or more and to a degree that is greater than other children of the same age.[23]

The symptom categories yield three potential classifications of ADHD—predominantly inattentive type, predominantly hyperactive-impulsive type, or combined type if criteria for both subtypes are met:[24]

Predominantly inattentive type symptoms as listed by the U.S. National Institute of Mental Health may include:[25]
Be easily distracted, miss details, forget things, and frequently switch from one activity to another
Have difficulty maintaining focus on one task
Become bored with a task after only a few minutes, unless doing something enjoyable
Have difficulty focusing attention on organizing and completing a task or learning something new or trouble completing or turning in homework assignments, often losing things (e.g., pencils, toys, assignments) needed to complete tasks or activities
Not seem to listen when spoken to
Daydream, become easily confused, and move slowly
Have difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others
Struggle to follow instructions.

Predominantly hyperactive-impulsive type symptoms may include:[25]
Fidget and squirm in their seats
Talk nonstop
Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight
Have trouble sitting still during dinner, school, and story time
Be constantly in motion
Have difficulty doing quiet tasks or activities

and also these manifestations primarily of impulsivity:[25]
Be very impatient
Blurt out inappropriate comments, show their emotions without restraint, and act without regard for consequences
Blurts out comments better left unsaid (not always innapropriate)
Have difficulty waiting for things they want or waiting their turns in games

Some children, adolescents, and adults with ADHD have an increased risk of experiencing difficulties with social skills, such as social interaction and forming and maintaining friendships. About half of children and adolescents with ADHD experience rejection by their peers compared to 10-15 percent of non-ADHD children and adolescents. Training in social skills, behavioural modification and medication may have some limited beneficial effects. The most important factor in reducing emergence of later psychopathology, such as major depression, criminality, school failure, and substance use disorders is formation of friendships with people who are not involved in delinquent activities.[26] Adolescents with ADHD are more likely to have difficulty making and keeping friends due to impairments in processing verbal and nonverbal language.[27]

Handwriting difficulties seem to be common in children with ADHD.[28] Delays in speech and language as well as motor development occur more commonly in the ADHD population.[29][30]
Associated disorders

Inattention and hyperactive behavior are not necessarily the only problems in children with ADHD. ADHD exists alone in only about 1/3 of the children diagnosed with it.[citation needed] The combination of ADHD with other conditions can greatly complicate diagnosis and treatment. Many co-existing (comorbid) conditions require other courses of treatment and should be diagnosed separately instead of being grouped in the ADHD diagnosis.[citation needed]

Some of the associated conditions are:
Oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder, which occur with ADHD at a rate of 50 percent and 20 percent respectively,[31] are characterized by antisocial behaviors such as stubbornness, aggression, frequent temper tantrums, deceitfulness, lying, or stealing,[32] inevitably linking these comorbid disorders with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD); about half of those with hyperactivity and ODD or CD develop ASPD in adulthood.[33] However, modern brain imaging technology indicates that conduct disorder and ADHD are two distinct disorders.[34]
Primary disorder of vigilance, which is characterized by poor attention and concentration, as well as difficulties staying awake. These children tend to fidget, yawn and stretch and appear to be hyperactive in order to remain alert and active.[32]
Mood disorders (especially Bipolar disorder and Major depressive disorder). Boys diagnosed with the combined ADHD subtype have been shown to be more likely to suffer from a mood disorder.[35] Adults with ADHD sometimes have co-morbid bipolar disorder, which requires careful assessment to accurately diagnose and treat both conditions.[36]
Anxiety disorders, have been found to occur more commonly in the ADHD population.[35]
Obsessive-compulsive disorder. OCD can co-occur with ADHD and shares many of its characteristics.[32]
Substance use disorders. Adolescents and adults with ADHD are at a significantly increased risk of developing a substance abuse problem which can interfere with the evaluation and treatment of ADHD. The reason for this increased risk may be due to an altered reward pathway in the brains of ADHD individuals.[1] The most commonly misused substances by the ADHD population are alcohol and cannabis; serious substance misuse problems should be treated first due to the serious risks and impairments that occur,[12]:p.38[37] with long-term alcohol misuse and long-term cannabis misuse and other drug misuse.
Restless legs syndrome, is associated with ADHD and is often due to iron deficiency anaemia.[38][39] However, restless legs can simply be a part of ADHD and requires careful assessment to differentiate between the two disorders.[40]
Sleep disorders such as obstructive sleep apnea syndrome, can cause neurocognitive and behavioural symptoms in children that fulfil the ADHD diagnostic criteria.[41] Sleep disorders also commonly co-exist with ADHD or can be caused by side effects of medications used to treat ADHD; insomnia is the most common sleep disorder found in ADHD children. Behavioural therapy is preferred as a first line treatment of insomnia rather than medication in these children.[42][43] Melatonin is sometimes used in children who have sleep onset insomnia.[44]

There is a strong association between persistent bed wetting and ADHD[45] as well as dyspraxia with up to 50 percent of dyspraxics having ADHD.[46] Multiple research studies have also found a significant association between ADHD and language delay.[47] Anxiety and depression are some of the disorders that can accompany ADHD. Academic studies, and research in private practice suggest that depression in ADHD appears to be increasingly prevalent in children as they get older, with a higher rate of increase in girls than in boys, and to vary in prevalence with the subtype of ADHD.
Cause

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The causes of ADHD remain an area of controversy - prenatal and perinatal risks such as exposure to lead and other environmental toxins, genetic contributions and social factors have been considered as possible causes. There is evidence that a combination of factors rather than a single cause explains ADHD.[48]
Genetics

Twin studies indicate that the disorder is highly heritable and that genetics are a factor in about 75 percent of all cases.[12] Hyperactivity also seems to be primarily a genetic condition; however, other causes have been identified.[49]

A large majority of ADHD cases may arise from a combination of various genes, many of which affect dopamine transporters. Candidate genes include DAT1, DRD4, DRD5, 5HTT, HTR1B, and SNAP25. There is also strong heterogeneity for the associations between ADHD and DAT1, DRD4, DRD5, dopamine beta hydroxylase, ADRA2A, 5HTT, TPH2, MAOA, and SNAP25.[50] A common variant of a gene called LPHN3 is estimated to be responsible for about 9% of the incidence of ADHD, and ADHD cases where this gene is present are particularly responsive to stimulant medication.[51]
Executive function

Cognitive processes that regulate, control, and manage other cognitive processes are termed executive functions (EF).[52] Examples of such regulated processes are planning, working memory, attention, inhibition, mental flexibility, and initiation and monitoring of actions.[53] One of the primary neuropsychologic theories of ADHD suggests that its symptoms arise from a primary deficit in executive functions.[54] Groups with ADHD showed significant impairment on all EF tasks. The strongest effects were on measures of response inhibition, vigilance, working memory, and planning. However, the effect sizes were moderate and there were also individual differences.[55] Not all individuals with ADHD show deficits in executive functioning;[56] the criteria for an executive function deficit are met in 30–50% of children and adolescents with ADHD.[57] Furthermore, deficits in EF are not unique to ADHD[56] being present in individuals with oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder.[56] One study found that 80% of individuals with ADHD were impaired in at least one EF task, compared to 50% for individuals without ADHD.[58] Deficits in certain executive functions play an important role in ADHD; however, "EF weaknesses are neither necessary nor sufficient to cause all cases of ADHD".[55]
Evolution
See also: Hunter vs. farmer hypothesis

At more than 1 percent of the population, researchers have proposed that the high prevalence of ADHD may be due to natural selection having favoured ADHD, possibly because the individual traits may be beneficial on their own, and only become dysfunctional when these traits combine to form ADHD.[59] The high prevalence of ADHD may in part be because women in general are more attracted to males who are risk takers, thereby promoting ADHD in the gene pool.[60]

Further evidence that hyperactivity might be evolutionarily beneficial was put forth in a 2006 study finding that it may carry specific benefits for certain forms of society. In these societies, those with ADHD are hypothesized to have been more proficient in tasks involving risk, competition, and/or unpredictable behavior (i.e. exploring new areas, finding new food sources, etc.), where these societies may have benefited from confining impulsive or unpredictable behavior to a small subgroup. In these situations, ADHD would have been beneficial to society as a whole even while severely detrimental to the individual.[60] More recent research suggests that because it is more common in anxious or stressed mothers, ADHD primes a child to face a stressful or dangerous environment with—for example—increased impulsivity and explorative behaviour.[61] A genetic variant associated with ADHD (DRD4 48bp VNTR 7R allele) has been found to be at higher frequency in more nomadic populations and those with more of a history of migration.[62] Consistent with this, another group of researchers observed that the health status of nomadic Ariaal men was higher if they had the ADHD associated genetic variant (7R alleles). However in recently sedentary (non-nomadic) Ariaal those with 7R alleles seemed to have slightly worse health.[63]
Environmental

ADHD is predominantly a genetic disorder with environmental factors contributing a small role to the etiology of ADHD. Twin studies have shown that ADHD is largely genetic with 76 percent of the phenotypic variance being explained by inherited genetic factors.[64][65] Alcohol intake during pregnancy can cause the child to have a fetal alcohol spectrum disorder which can include symptoms similar to ADHD.[66] Exposure to tobacco smoke during pregnancy impairs normal development of the feotus including the central nervous system and can increase the risk of the child being diagnosed with ADHD.[67] Many children exposed to tobacco do not develop ADHD or else only have mild symptoms which do not reach the threshold of a diagnosis of ADHD. A combination of a genetic vulnerability to developing ADHD as well as the toxic developmental effects of tobacco on the foetus explain why some children exposed to tobacco smoke in utero develop ADHD and others don't.[68] Children exposed to lead, even relatively low levels of lead develop neurocognitive deficits which resemble ADHD and these children can fulfill the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. There is also some evidence that exposure to polychlorinated biphenyls during childhood causes developmental damage and can cause ADHD type symptoms which are then diagnosed as ADHD.[69] Exposure to the organophosphate insecticides chlorpyrifos and dialkyl phosphate is associated with an increased risk of ADHD. However, the evidence is not definitive as 5 of 17 studies failed to find an association.[70]

Very low birth weight, premature birth and exceptional early adversity increase the risk of the child having ADHD.[71] At least 30 percent of children who experience a pediatric traumatic brain injury develop ADHD.[72] Infections during pregnancy, at birth, and in early childhood are linked to an increased risk of developing ADHD. These include various viruses (measles, varicella, rubella, enterovirus 71) and streptococcal bacterial infection.[73]

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Diet
Main article: Diet and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

According to one researcher, Weiss, concerns were first raised by Benjamin Feingold, a pediatric allergist, that food colourings and additives may affect children's behaviour in 1973. There is evidence suggesting that some food colourings may make some children hyperactive. However, the evidence for a link between food colourings and hyperactive behaviour remains uncertain. The FDA interpreted the evidence as being inconclusive as to whether food colours caused hyperactivity or not. The FDA review of food colours has been criticised for only doing a very narrow investigation into food colourings and their possible association with causing hyperactivity instead of investigating their possible effect on neurobehaviour in general.[74] It is possible that certain food colourings act as a trigger for ADHD symptoms in subgroup of children who have a genetic vulnerability. The U.K, followed by the European Union as a whole, took regulatory action on food colourings due to concerns about their possible adverse effects in children.[75] According to the Food Standards Agency, the food regulatory agency in the UK, food manufacturers were encouraged to voluntarily phase out the use of most artificial food colors by the end of 2009. Sunset yellow FCF (E110), quinoline yellow (E104), carmoisine (E122), allura red (E129), tartrazine (E102) and ponceau 4R (E124) are collectively called the "Southampton six". Following the FSA's actions, the European Food Safety Authority ruled that any food products containing the contentious colourings must display warning labels on their packaging by 2010.[76]
Social

The World Health Organization states that the diagnosis of ADHD can represent family dysfunction or inadequacies in the educational system rather than individual psychopathology.[77] Other researchers believe that relationships with caregivers have a profound effect on attentional and self-regulatory abilities. A study of foster children found that a high number of them had symptoms closely resembling ADHD.[78] Researchers have found behavior typical of ADHD in children who have suffered violence and emotional abuse.[12]

Social construction theory states that it is societies that determine where the line between normal and abnormal behavior is drawn. Thus society members including physicians, parents, teachers, and others are the ones who determine which diagnostic criteria are applied and, thus, determine the number of people affected.[79] This is exemplified in the fact that the DSM IV arrives at levels of ADHD three to four times higher than those obtained with use of the ICD 10.[9] Thomas Szasz, a proponent of this theory, has argued that ADHD was "invented and not discovered."[80][81]
Pathophysiology

Diagram of the human brain

The pathophysiology of ADHD is unclear and there are a number of competing theories.[32] Research on children with ADHD has shown a general reduction of brain volume, but with a proportionally greater reduction in the volume of the left-sided prefrontal cortex. These findings suggest that the core ADHD features of inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity may reflect frontal lobe dysfunction, but other brain regions in particular the cerebellum have also been implicated.[82] Neuroimaging studies in ADHD have not always given consistent results and as of 2008 are used only for research and not diagnostic purposes.[83] Research using neuroimaging, neuropsychological genetics, and neurochemistry has found converging lines of evidence to suggest that a main brain system connecting the prefrontal cortex and the striatum is involved in the pathophysiology of ADHD. Nevertheless other brain systems related to attentional, but also other more basic cognitive processes, have also been found to differ between ADHD patients and healthy controls.[84][85]

Previously it was thought that the elevated number of dopamine transporters seen in ADHD patients was part of the pathophysiology of ADHD but it now appears that the reason for elevated striatal dopamine transporter density in ADHD individuals is due to neuroadaptations occurring due to the continuous exposure to stimulants such as methylphenidate or dexamphetamine as the body tries to counter-act the effects of the stimulants by developing a tolerance to the stimulant medications.[86] There is evidence that people with ADHD have a low arousal threshold and compensate for this with increased stimuli, which in turn results in disruption of attentional capacity and an increase in hyperactive behaviour. The reason for this is due to abnormalities in how the dopamine system in central nervous system responds to stimuli.[87] However, abnormalities in the dopamine system alone do not explain ADHD — abnormalities in the functioning of adrenergic, serotoninergic and cholinergic or nicotinergic pathways can also be present and contribute to the pathophysiology of ADHD.[1][88]
Diagnosis

ADHD is diagnosed via a pediatric or psychiatric assessment of the person's childhood behavioural and cognitive development symptoms; this assessment includes ruling out the effects of drugs, medications and other medical or psychiatric disorders as possible explanations for the signs and symptoms.[12]:p.19–27 ADHD is diagnosed three to four times more commonly in boys than in girls.[8][9]

In North America, the DSM-IV criteria are often the basis for a diagnosis, while European countries usually use the ICD-10. If the DSM-IV criteria are used, rather than the ICD-10, a diagnosis of ADHD is 3–4 times more likely.[9] Factors other than those within the DSM or ICD, however, have been found to affect the diagnosis in clinical practice. For example, a study found that the youngest children in a class are much more likely to be diagnosed as having ADHD compared to their older counterparts in the same year. This is because these children may behave more hyperactively, not because they have ADHD, but because they are younger and developmentally behind their classmates. It is estimated that about 20 percent of children given a diagnosis of ADHD are misdiagnosed because of the month they were born.[89]

Children who display the behavioural symptoms of ADHD but who do not have any significant functional impairments compared to their age-matched peers cannot be diagnosed as having the psychiatric disorder, ADHD.[90]

The previously used term ADD expired with the most recent revision of the DSM. As a consequence, ADHD is the current nomenclature used to describe the disorder as one distinct disorder that can manifest itself as being a primary deficit resulting in hyperactivity/impulsivity (ADHD, predominantely hyperactive-impulsive type) or inattention (ADHD, predominantely inattentive type) or both (ADHD combined type).[23]
Classification

ADHD may be seen as one or more continuous traits found normally throughout the general population.[12] However, the definition of ADHD is based on behaviour and it does not imply a neurological disease.[12] ADHD is a psychiatric disorder,[1] or neurobehavioral disorder,[2] and is further classified as a being a disruptive behavior disorder along with oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder and antisocial personality disorder.[91]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR) classifies ADHD according to the predominance of symptoms of:
Inattention;
Hyperactivity–impulsivity;
or a combination of both (Combined type).[23]

This subdivision is based on presence of at least six out of nine long-term maladaptive symptoms (lasting at least 6 months) of either inattention, hyperactivity–impulsivity, or both. Thus, a child who is diagnosed with the inattention subtype may also show signs of hyperactivity–impulsivity, and vice-versa. To be considered, the symptoms must have appeared before the age of 6, manifest in more than one environment (e.g. at home and at school or work), and not be better explained by another mental disorder.[23]

Most children with ADHD have the combined type. Children with the inattention subtype are less likely to act out or have difficulties getting along with other children. They may sit quietly, but without paying attention to what they are doing. Therefore, the child may be overlooked, and parents and teachers may not notice symptoms of ADHD.[23]
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

As with many other psychiatric and medical disorders, the formal diagnosis is made by a qualified professional in the field based on a set number of criteria. In the USA these criteria are laid down by the American Psychiatric Association in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV). Based on the DSM-IV criteria listed below, three types of ADHD are classified:[90]
ADHD, Combined Type is a combination of the two other ADHD subtypes.[90]
ADHD Predominantly Inattentive Type presents with symptoms including being easily distracted, forgetful, daydreaming, disorganisation, poor concentration, and difficulty completing tasks.[90]
ADHD, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type presents with excessive fidgetiness and restlessness, hyperactivity, difficulty waiting and remaining seated, immature behaviour; destructive behaviors may also be present.[90]

For a diagnosis of ADHD to be made the signs must not be due to the course of a pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder. The signs are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (such as mood disorder, anxiety disorder, dissociative identity disorder, or a personality disorder).[23]
International Classification of Diseases

In the tenth edition of the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10) the signs of ADHD are given the name "hyperkinetic disorders". When a conduct disorder (as defined by ICD-10[29]) is present, the condition is referred to as "hperkinetic conduct disorder". Otherwise the disorder is classified as "disturbance of activity and attention", "other hyperkinetic disorders" or "hyperkinetic disorders, unspecified". The latter is sometimes referred to as, "hyperkinetic syndrome".[29]
Other guidelines

The American Academy of Pediatrics' clinical practice guideline for children and adolescents with ADHD recommends the following:[92]
ADHD should be considered as a possible diagnosis in children and adolescents aged 4-18 years old who present with academic or behavioural problems of hyperactivity, impulsiveness and inattention.
To aid in the diagnosis the DSM IV should be used in combination with gathering evidence from family members, guardians, teachers and mental health workers who know the child or adolescent. Before making a diagnosis causes for the symptoms other than ADHD should be considered.
Co-morbid disorders such as anxiety, depression, oppositional defiant disorder, and conduct disorder, as well as learning and language disorders which often co-exist with ADHD should be looked for. Additionally other neurodevelopmental disorders), as well as tics, sleep apnea should be screened for. Finally the guidance recommends when substance use disorders are present that these are treated first before the ADHD and given priority.
ADHD should be viewed as a chronic disorder that has special healthcare needs and treatments which can include behavioural, pharmacological or a combination of both should take into consideration the age of the patient.

Adults often continue to be impaired by ADHD. Adults with ADHD are diagnosed under the same criteria, including the stipulation that their signs must have been present prior to the age of seven. Questioning parents or guardians as to how the person behaved and developed as a child also forms part of the clinical assessment of the individual; a family history of ADHD also adds weight to a diagnosis of adult ADHD due the strong heritability of ADHD.[1] While the core symptoms of ADHD are similar in children and adults they often present differently in adults than in children, for example excessive physical activity seen in children may present as feelings of restlessness and constant mental activity in adults.[1]

The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP) considers it necessary that the following be present before attaching the label of ADHD to a child:[93]
The behaviors must appear before age 7.
They must continue for at least six months.
The symptoms must also create a real handicap in at least two of the following areas of the child's life:
in the classroom,
on the playground,
at home,
in the community, or
in social settings.

If a child seems too active on the playground but not elsewhere, the problem might not be ADHD. It might also not be ADHD if the behaviors occur in the classroom but nowhere else. A child who shows some symptoms would not be diagnosed with ADHD if his or her schoolwork or friendships are not impaired by the behaviors.[93]
DifferentialADHD symptoms which are related to other disorders[94]
Depression Anxiety disorder Bipolar disorder
feelings of guilt, hopelessness, low self-esteem, pessimism, unhappiness, or worthlessness
Anhedonia or loss of interest in hobbies, regular activities, sex, or work
fatigue
Sleep problems including insomnia, dyssomnia, or hypersomnia
difficulty maintaining attentional control
change in appetite
Irritability or hostility
low tolerance for stress
thoughts of death or suicidal ideation
unexplained pain or symptoms unresponsive to treatment, such as headache or dyspepsia worry or any persistent feeling of anxiety experienced daily for 3-6 months
Irritability
occasional feelings of panic, fear, or angst
inability to relax
being hyperalert
inability to pay attention
tire easily
low tolerance for stress
difficulty maintaining attentional control in manic state
excessive happiness, euphoria, or exhuberance
Hyperactivity
Racing thoughts
Aggression
excessive talking
Grandiose delusions
decreased need for sleep
inappropriate social behavior
difficulty maintaining attentional control
in depressive state
same symptoms as in the depression section of this table


Symptoms of ADHD such as low mood and poor self-image, mood swings, and irritability can be confused with dysthymia, cyclothymia or bipolar disorder as well as with borderline personality disorder,[1] Some of the symptoms that are due to anxiety disorders, antisocial personality disorder, developmental disabilities or mental retardation or the effects of substance abuse such as intoxication and withdrawal symptoms can overlap with some ADHD symptoms. These various disorders which can mimic some ADHD symptoms are sometimes comorbid with ADHD. Medical conditions which can cause ADHD type symptoms and require consideration for a differential diagnosis include hyperthyroidism, seizure disorder, lead toxicity, hearing deficits, hepatic disease, sleep apnea, drug interactions, and head injury.[95]

Primary sleep disorders play a role in symptoms of inattention and behavioral dysregulation. There are multilevel and bidirectional relationships among sleep, neurobehavioral functioning and the clinical syndrome of ADHD.[96] Many sleep disorders are important causes of symptoms that may overlap with the core symptoms of ADHD; children with ADHD should be regularly and systematically assessed for sleep problems.[97][98] Behavioral manifestations of sleepiness in children range from the classic ones (yawning, rubbing eyes), to externalizing behaviors (impulsivity, hyperactivity, aggressiveness), to mood lability and inattentiveness.[97][99]
Management
Main article: Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder management

The management of ADHD involves either psychotherapy or medication therapy alone or a combination of the two. Medications used in the treatment of ADHD include stimulants, noradrenergic agents, adrenergic agonists and certain antidepressants.[35] Medications have at least some effect in about 80% of people.[100] Dietary modifications may also be of benefit.[101]
Psychosocial

The evidence is strong for the effectiveness of behavioral treatments in ADHD.[102] It is recommended first line in those who have mild symptoms and in preschool-aged children.[103] Psychological therapies used include psychoeducational input, behavior therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), interpersonal psychotherapy (IPT), family therapy, school-based interventions, social skills training, parent management training,[12] neurofeedback,[104] and outdoor activities.[105] Parent training and education have been found to have short-term benefits.[106] There is a deficiency of good research on the effectiveness of family therapy for ADHD, but the evidence that exists shows that it is comparable in effectiveness to treatment as usual in the community and is superior to medication placebo.[107] Several ADHD specific support groups exist as informational sources and to help families cope with challenges associated with dealing with ADHD.
Medication

methylphenidate (Ritalin) 10 mg tablets

Stimulant medications are the medical treatment of choice.[108] There are a number of non-stimulant medications, such as atomoxetine, that may be used as alternatives.[108] There are no good studies of comparative effectiveness between various medications, and there is a lack of evidence on their effects on academic performance and social behaviors.[109] While stimulants and atomoxetine are generally safe, there are side-effects and contraindications to their use.[108] Medications are not recommended for preschool children, as their long-term effects in such young people are unknown.[12][110] Research into the long-term effects of stimulants in ADHD have come to conflicting conclusions with one study finding benefit, another finding no benefit while another finding evidence of harm. The current research has methodological problems and more robust research has been recommended.[111] Any drug used for ADHD may have adverse drug reactions such as psychosis and mania,[112] though methylphenidate-induced psychosis is uncommon. Regular monitoring of individuals receiving long-term stimulant therapy for possible treatment emergent psychosis has been recommended.[113] Stimulant therapy is recommended to be discontinued periodically during protracted therapy to assess for continuing need for medication.[114] Tolerance to the therapeutic effects of stimulants can occur,[86] with rebound effects occurring when the dose wears off.[1] Therefore due to the risk of discontinuation/rebound effects abrupt withdrawal of stimulants is not recommended.[115] People with ADHD have an increased risk of substance abuse, and research studies have found that stimulant medications reduce this risk or have no effect on substance abuse.[1] Additionally, stimulant medications approved for treating ADHD have the potential for abuse and dependence.[116] Atomoxetine due to its lack of abuse potential may be preferred in individuals who are at risk of abusing stimulant medication.[1] Guidelines on when to use medications vary internationally, with the UK's National Institute of Clinical Excellence, for example, recommending use only in severe cases, while most United States guidelines recommend medications in nearly all cases.[117] Deficiency in zinc has been associated with inattentive symptoms of ADHD and there is evidence that zinc supplementation can benefit ADHD children who have low zinc levels. There is also some evidence that zinc supplementation leads to a significant reduction in the dosage of stimulants required for ADHD.[118]
Prognosis

A large study that followed children diagnosed with ADHD (combined type) over a period of 8 years found that they often have significant difficulties in adolescence, regardless of treatment or lack thereof.[119] In the United States, 37 percent of those with ADHD do not get a high school diploma even though many of them will receive special education services.[120] Also in the US, less than 5 percent of individuals with ADHD get a college degree[121] compared to 28 percent of the general population aged 25 years and older.[122] The proportion of children meeting the diagnostic criteria for ADHD drops by about 50 percent over three years after the diagnosis. This occurs regardless of the treatments used and also occurs in untreated children with ADHD.[123][124][125] ADHD persists into adulthood in about 30 to 50 percent of cases.[7] Those affected are likely to develop coping mechanisms as they mature, thus compensating for their previous ADHD.[13]
Epidemiology

Percent of United States youth 4–17 ever diagnosed with ADHD as of 2007
14%–15.9%

11%–13.9%

9.6%–10.9%

8.0%–9.5%

5.6%–7.9%

Percent of United States youth 4–17 ever diagnosed with ADHD as of 2003[126]

ADHD is estimated to affect about 6 to 7 percent of people aged 18 and under.[4] There is, however, both geographical and local variability among studies. Children in North America appear to have a higher rate of ADHD than children in Africa and the Middle East - however, this may be due to the methodology employed by different studies.[127] Published studies have found rates of ADHD as low as 2 percent and as high as 14 percent among school-aged children.[128] The rates of diagnosis and treatment of ADHD are also much higher on the east coast of the United States than on its west coast.[129] The frequency of the diagnosis differs between male children (10%) and female children (4%) in the United States.[130] This difference between genders may reflect either a difference in susceptibility or that females with ADHD are less likely to be diagnosed than males.[131]

Rates of ADHD diagnosis and treatment have increased in both the UK and the US since the 1970s. In the UK an estimated 0.5 per 1,000 children had ADHD in the 1970s, while 3 per 1,000 received ADHD medications in the late 1990s. In the US in the 1970s 12 per 1,000 children had the diagnosis, while in the late 1990s 34 per 1,000 had the diagnosis and the numbers continue to increase.[12] In the UK in 2003 a prevalence of 3.6 percent is reported in male children and less than 1 percent is reported in female children.[12]:134
History
Main article: History of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

Hyperactivity has long been part of the human condition. Sir Alexander Crichton describes "mental restlessness" in his book An inquiry into the nature and origin of mental derangement written in 1798.[132][133] The terminology used to describe the symptoms of ADHD has gone through many changes over history including: "minimal brain damage", "minimal brain dysfunction" (or disorder), "learning/behavioral disabilities" and "hyperactivity". In the DSM-II (1968) it was the "Hyperkinetic Reaction of Childhood or adolescence". In the DSM-III "ADD (Attention-Deficit Disorder) with or without hyperactivity" was introduced. In 1987 this was changed to ADHD in the DSM-III-R and in 1994 the DSM-IV split the ADHD diagnosis into three subtypes, ADHD inattentive type, ADHD hyperactive-impulsive type and ADHD combined type.[134] The use of stimulants to treat ADHD was first described in 1937.[135]
Society and culture

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A number of notable individuals have given controversial opinions on ADHD. Scientologist Tom Cruise has referred to the ADHD medications Ritalin and Adderall as being "street drugs" - this viewpoint (as well as his other viewpoints on psychiatry) has received criticism - for example the doses of stimulants used in the treatment of ADHD do not cause behavioural addiction and there is some evidence of a reduced risk of later substance addiction in children who had their ADHD treated with stimulants.[136] In England Baroness Susan Greenfield, a leading neuroscientist, spoke out publicly in 2007 in the House of Lords about the need for a wide-ranging inquiry into the dramatic increase in the diagnosis of ADHD in the UK and possible causes following a BBC Panorama programme that highlighted US research (The Multimodal Treatment Study of Children with ADHD by the University of Buffalo) suggesting drugs are no better than other forms of therapy for ADHD in the long term.[137] However, in 2010 the BBC Trust criticized the 2007 BBC Panorama programme for summarizing the US research as showing "no demonstrable improvement in children's behaviour after staying on ADHD medication for three years" when in actuality "the study found that medication did offer a significant improvement over time" although the long-term benefits of medication were found to be "no better than children who were treated with behaviour therapy."[138]

As of 2009, eight percent of all US Major League Baseball players had been diagnosed with ADHD, making the disorder common among this population. The increase coincided with the League's 2006 ban on stimulants which has raised concern that some players are mimicking the symptoms of ADHD to get around the ban on the use of stimulants in sport.[139]
Controversies
Main article: Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder controversies

ADHD and its diagnosis and treatment have been considered controversial since the 1970s.[14][15][140] The controversies have involved clinicians, teachers, policymakers, parents and the media. Opinions regarding ADHD range from not believing it exists at all[12]:p.23[141] to believing there are genetic and physiological bases for the condition as well as disagreement about the use of stimulant medications in treatment.[15][16] Some sociologists consider ADHD to be a "classic example of the medicalization of deviant behavior, defining a previously nonmedical problem as a medical one".[14] Most healthcare providers in the U.S. accept that ADHD is a genuine disorder with debate in centering mainly around how it is diagnosed and treated.[17][18][19]

Possible overdiagnosis of ADHD, the use of stimulant medications in children, and the methods by which ADHD is diagnosed and treated are some of the main areas of controversy.[142] Possible long-term side-effects of stimulants and their usefulness are largely unknown because of a lack of long-term studies.[143] Some research raises questions about the long-term effectiveness and side-effects of medications used to treat ADHD.[144] With a "wide variation in diagnosis across states, races, and ethnicities" some investigators suspect that factors other than neurological conditions play a role when the diagnosis of ADHD is made.[89]
Special populations
Adults
Main article: Adult attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

Between 2 and 5 percent of adults have ADHD.[1] Around two thirds of ADHD children continue to have ADHD as adults, however, not all of these children will continue to have the full disorder. About 15 percent of ADHD children continue to have the full ADHD disorder as adults whereas 50 percent partially 'grow out' of it with the remainder not displaying ADHD symptomatology as adults.[1] Most adults, however, remain untreated.[145] Untreated adults with ADHD often have chaotic lifestyles, may appear to be disorganized and may rely on non-prescribed drugs and alcohol to get by.[95] Other problems include relationship and job difficulties, and an increased propensity to become involved in criminal activities.[1] They often have such associated psychiatric comorbidities as depression, anxiety disorder, substance abuse, or a learning disability.[95]

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Some ADHD symptoms in adults differ from those seen in children — for example whereas children with ADHD may climb and run about excessively, adults may experience an inability to relax and talk excessively in social situations. Adults with ADHD may start relationships impulsively and may display sensation seeking behaviour and be short-tempered. Addictive behaviour such as substance abuse and gambling are also very common. The DSM-IV criteria have been criticised for not being developmentally appropriate for adults as these impairments present differently to children thus leading to claims that adults are outgrowing the diagnostic criteria rather than the ADHD disorder itself and thus are not being properly diagnosed.[1]
High IQ children

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Barlog
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#448 Post by Barlog » 17 Jul 2013 21:04

wade-newb wrote:
Palantyre wrote:Dude's got an enormous head.
You know him intimately, then? :wink:
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Here it comes to subject the terror you forgot
No memories from the past
The unexplainable starts to appear
As your sub-consciousness begins to come back again

Reality fades away
You try to find a solution
Here it's coming now, indecision
You're free but you can't see through the confusion


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[Chorus]

There is no time
No time to regret
The eraser's coming for your life
You got to run
Stay away from the light
The eraser's here to twist your mind

Feel your soul connected to the universe
The solstice is complete
They controlled your thoughts
You will remember now, what it's all about

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Twist the end around, violation
It's burning deep and twisting under your skin
It scares you forever
The proof you will find in your dreams



[Chorus]

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Barlog
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Location: Brest, Belarus, International St 23, flat 77 (+375336561893 mts mobile number and home375162200561))
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#449 Post by Barlog » 18 Jul 2013 18:48


User avatar
Barlog
Posts: 97
Joined: 30 May 2013 13:07
Location: Brest, Belarus, International St 23, flat 77 (+375336561893 mts mobile number and home375162200561))
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Re: Blind Guardian must defend his fans!

#450 Post by Barlog » 18 Jul 2013 19:02

wade-newb wrote:
Palantyre wrote:Dude's got an enormous head.
You know him intimately, then? :wink:
:mrgreen:

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:o

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