Wikileaks insurance

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The Rider Of Rohan
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#51 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 06 Dec 2010 21:11

Pure Steel wrote:This really seems a fake. I mean, every file can be opened with enough time and technology, so it seems to me a really poor insurance.
What evidence do you have that it's fake?

It's protected by an 256 bits AES-key consisting of 78 digits, which has 115 quattuorvigintillion possible combinations. You could bruteforce it in theory, but the highest successful bruteforce of an AES-key was on a 64 bit one. According to wiki: "AES permits the use of 256-bit keys. Breaking a symmetric 256-bit key by brute force requires 2128 times more computational power than a 128-bit key. A device that could check a billion billion (10 18) AES keys per second would in theory require about 3×10 51 years to exhaust the 256-bit key space."

So it's safe to say that the insurance is far from poor.
Even though I don't think Assange deserve such a hunt (I'm for free information), I'm wondering about who really is there behind this man. He seems the defender of the free information but I think he has a little too much money, security and opportunities aroud himself to be on his own.
He's mainly funded through gifts from sympathetic donators.
I don't think it's sci-fi if we say that there's a bigger power that allows him to do what he does, the very question is: Assange is being "directed" on the information he leaks?
I don't think so. The information is being leaked by people who have some interest in that information being public, so the only thing that's directing Assange is the availability of information which the Illuminati try to keep secret. If it wasn't Assange it would've been somebody else.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#52 Post by spamel » 06 Dec 2010 21:32

I am slightly shocked at the news reports on this. One report has about five people stating how it is an obvious set of targets for terrorist action. Keep screaming and jumping up and down about it and the terrorists will certainly take notice of it! I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA pays a bunch of no good rag heads to attack an installation so that they can point at Assange and say "See, we said this would happen and it is your fault!"
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#53 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 06 Dec 2010 22:28

Nah, that wouldn't work. They already did that with 9/11, and there's no way the world will fall for that a second time.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#54 Post by spamel » 06 Dec 2010 22:55

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Nah, that wouldn't work. They already did that with 9/11, and there's no way the world will fall for that a second time.
Remember that well know Texan saying:

"Fool me once, err...... shame... on....errr, you,
Fool me twice.....




....you can't get fooled again!"

Yeah, nice one George Dubyah!
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#55 Post by Led Guardian » 06 Dec 2010 23:13

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Nah, that wouldn't work. They already did that with 9/11, and there's no way the world will fall for that a second time.
:lol:
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#56 Post by Desert_Storm » 07 Dec 2010 00:57

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Nah, that wouldn't work. They already did that with 9/11, and there's no way the world will fall for that a second time.
I would have said something similar, before bush was voted that second time ;)
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#57 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 01:11

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:
Even though I don't think Assange deserve such a hunt (I'm for free information), I'm wondering about who really is there behind this man. He seems the defender of the free information but I think he has a little too much money, security and opportunities aroud himself to be on his own.
He's mainly funded through gifts from sympathetic donators.
He's quite good in using this founds to disappear. Too much good. He's not that clever.
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#58 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 07 Dec 2010 07:40

How do you know he's not that clever?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#59 Post by t.a.j. » 07 Dec 2010 09:05

He seems pretty clever to me.

Also, as has been remarked before, the person of Julian Assange is far less important than the project of wikileaks. The best case scenario would be to present Assange as a decoy. Media simplifies. One common methods is the attribution of events to a single person. We are so used to that, we usually don't notice that it is spin. People want to believe in big people, single persons who are responsible instead of groups, corporations, institutions or structures. Bin Laden & Al Quaida. It's like Bill Hayley & The Comets. Julian Assange & Wikileaks. Target Assange, target wikileaks. In the same way: wasn't the message: Get Bin Laden! ? A ridiculous idea, if you think about it. But still, the enemy needs a face and the spin doctors of the world are in the habit of creating and then attacking faces. So in an optimal situation, the media focusses on Assange, while the people realize that he is irrelevant in the final evaluation. What matters is that by taking away the ability to keep things secret, power is taken away from the powerful, governments and corporations, and given to the powerless.
And this is what all activism and politics should strive for.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#60 Post by Belgarion » 07 Dec 2010 12:27

Pure Steel wrote:He's not that clever.
Who are you? His mother?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#61 Post by spamel » 07 Dec 2010 13:17

For you, Assange, zee var ist over!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20101207/tt ... 02f96.html

I reckon he'll dissapear, or come a cropper in jail by some "loony" with a shiv. (I put loony in exclamation marks, as the loony will no doubt be working for a Government at the time!)
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#62 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 13:59

Belgarion wrote:
Pure Steel wrote:He's not that clever.
Who are you? His mother?
Ahauhauhauhau, thank god no.
I just can read: when he was an hacker he was caught easily ---> he's not clever enought to be the one that's creating all this mess.
t.a.j. is right when he says Assange is just a decoy, only I don't think that the real purpose of who stands behind him is free information.
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#63 Post by t.a.j. » 07 Dec 2010 14:23

Pure Steel wrote: I just can read: when he was an hacker he was caught easily ---> he's not clever enought to be the one that's creating all this mess.
This is the worst of all conspiracy arguments. "Person X could never have done that (on their own)". First of all, what a person can or cannot do is very difficult to determine. People's behaviour changes massively with changing context. Second of all, how would you of all people be able to make an accurate assessment of what a person you've only ever heard about in a few news reports could or could not do. Third of all, if you really must, say something like this instead: I think that, given what we have seen of Person X so far, it seems quite unlikely that he would manage to do something like Action Y. Maybe we should look for another, more likely candidate.
You still wouldn't be making a strong argument, but at least wouldn't be an ass.
t.a.j. is right when he says Assange is just a decoy, only I don't think that the real purpose of who stands behind him is free information.
I think you missed my point. It does not matter who "does" wikileaks or why they do it. All that matters is that it is done, because in doing it, they are redistributing power from those who have it, to those who need it. The internet has been called a space without places, a great nowhere, and this here is a great example of what that means: free information in its natural habitat is very hard to control for anyone. One it is released into the wild, chances are, it will thrive there. Some people, in particular those that persecute him, think that Assange is important, while what is important is the practice of releasing once proprietary, controlled information into the wild. What was once a problem mostly for corporations (With say, file sharing and iPhone hacks) now hits higher and in a more painful place.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#64 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 14:41

t.a.j. wrote:
Pure Steel wrote: I just can read: when he was an hacker he was caught easily ---> he's not clever enought to be the one that's creating all this mess.
This is the worst of all conspiracy arguments. "Person X could never have done that (on their own)". First of all, what a person can or cannot do is very difficult to determine. People's behaviour changes massively with changing context. Second of all, how would you of all people be able to make an accurate assessment of what a person you've only ever heard about in a few news reports could or could not do. Third of all, if you really must, say something like this instead: I think that, given what we have seen of Person X so far, it seems quite unlikely that he would manage to do something like Action Y. Maybe we should look for another, more likely candidate.
You still wouldn't be making a strong argument, but at least wouldn't be an ass.
I say what I think, not what you'd like me to think and, besides that, I never dare to say to you that what you write is an ass. So be more polite next time.
t.a.j. wrote:
t.a.j. is right when he says Assange is just a decoy, only I don't think that the real purpose of who stands behind him is free information.
I think you missed my point. It does not matter who "does" wikileaks or why they do it. All that matters is that it is done, because in doing it, they are redistributing power from those who have it, to those who need it. The internet has been called a space without places, a great nowhere, and this here is a great example of what that means: free information in its natural habitat is very hard to control for anyone. One it is released into the wild, chances are, it will thrive there. Some people, in particular those that persecute him, think that Assange is important, while what is important is the practice of releasing once proprietary, controlled information into the wild. What was once a problem mostly for corporations (With say, file sharing and iPhone hacks) now hits higher and in a more painful place.
Do you really think that this is what we need? Just know how our politicians work not knowing a single thing about how other states are acting?
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#65 Post by t.a.j. » 07 Dec 2010 14:55

Pure Steel wrote: Do you really think that this is what we need? Just know how our politicians work not knowing a single thing about how other states are acting?
What we need is for people in general to understand that they are not represented by politicians but opposed to them, regarding their interests. That democracy does not consists of a small elite making all the decisions, of the voice of lobbyists being louder than the voice of the people, of politicians lying to their people, but in a well informed, free and educated populace that understands where their interests lie and is able and willing to act on it.

And the USA, being the biggest bully on the block is a good first target for this. Your politicians have lied blatantly about weapons of mass destruction, have ordered the slaughter of hundreds of thousands, commanded covert assassinations that have thrust whole countries for decades into the murderous maws of tyranny.

On the other hand, obviously, there are people with a conscience in the US administration. People who under great personal risk expose the crimes and misdeeds of their superiors. People who deserve the highest praise, but get tortured and incarcerated for treason. Treason, emptiest of empty words. Treason in the face of injustice is never a crime, but always an act of heroism.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#66 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 15:17

t.a.j. wrote: Your politicians have lied blatantly about weapons of mass destruction, have ordered the slaughter of hundreds of thousands, commanded covert assassinations that have thrust whole countries for decades into the murderous maws of tyranny.
Ehm, I'm not american and, by the way, I perfecty knew what MY politicians (italian) do with their power even before Assange. And I also had a fairly good idea of what happened in other states too. Very a few of Assange leaks really did surprise me.
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#67 Post by t.a.j. » 07 Dec 2010 15:27

The point is not be surprised. The point is to have evidence.
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They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#68 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 15:43

t.a.j. wrote:The point is not be surprised. The point is to have evidence.
Dunno for USA but here in Italy we're plenty of evidence ;)
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#69 Post by t.a.j. » 07 Dec 2010 16:04

Good for you.
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They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret...


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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#70 Post by Belgarion » 07 Dec 2010 16:38

Pure Steel wrote:
Belgarion wrote:
Pure Steel wrote:He's not that clever.
Who are you? His mother?
I just can read: when he was an hacker he was caught easily ---> he's not clever enought to be the one that's creating all this mess.
Yes, in 1991. 20 years ago, he got caught. Big deal. It's highly probable that even the most skilled hackers would get caught when they infiltrate top security targets such as fucking US Department of Defense or Los Alamos National Labs or Nortel, as in his case.

Nevertheless, I can't comprehend the limits of illogicality by connecting these 3 points:

a. Assange being the founder of Wikileaks, co-publishes leaked information over the net.
b. He is not clever enough to publish leaked information over the net (since you got to be a bad-ass haxxor!1 to do it) and cause all this mess. (Even you could do it)
c. He is a bad hacker because he got caught 20 years ago by hacking into Nortel.

I'll tell you straight. There are no connections.

Now read some real stuff about him and what he had accomplished when you were probably playing with your action figures.

"When Assange turned sixteen, he got a modem, and his computer was transformed into a portal. Web sites did not exist yet—this was 1987—but computer networks and telecom systems were sufficiently linked to form a hidden electronic landscape that teen-agers with the requisite technical savvy could traverse. Assange called himself Mendax—from Horace’s splendide mendax, or “nobly untruthful”—and he established a reputation as a sophisticated programmer who could break into the most secure networks. He joined with two hackers to form a group that became known as the International Subversives, and they broke into computer systems in Europe and North America, including networks belonging to the U.S. Department of Defense and to the Los Alamos National Laboratory."

"In September, 1991, when Assange was twenty, he hacked into the master terminal that Nortel, the Canadian telecom company, maintained in Melbourne, and began to poke around. The International Subversives had been visiting the master terminal frequently. Normally, Assange hacked into computer systems at night, when they were semi-dormant, but this time a Nortel administrator was signed on. Sensing that he might be caught, Assange approached him with humor. “I have taken control,” he wrote, without giving his name. “For years, I have been struggling in this grayness. But now I have finally seen the light.” The administrator did not reply, and Assange sent another message: “It’s been nice playing with your system. We didn’t do any damage and we even improved a few things. Please don’t call the Australian Federal Police.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... ntPage=all
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#71 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 16:46

Not if half the people thinks it's not so important that our politicians do only thei interest and the ther half takes them as role-models. Lots of time I think people are not intrested in true, but just to keep watching soccer and beautiful on tv. :|
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#72 Post by t.a.j. » 07 Dec 2010 16:48

Take the TV away.
http://www.gedichtblog.de
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway.
They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret...


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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#73 Post by Belgarion » 07 Dec 2010 16:53

Pure Steel wrote:Not if half the people thinks it's not so important that our politicians do only thei interest and the ther half takes them as role-models. Lots of time I think people are not intrested in true, but just to keep watching soccer and beautiful on tv. :|
Yeah, thanks for making non-sense. And learn to speak English if you want people to understand you.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#74 Post by Pure Steel » 07 Dec 2010 23:11

Belgarion wrote:
Pure Steel wrote:Not if half the people thinks it's not so important that our politicians do only thei interest and the ther half takes them as role-models. Lots of time I think people are not intrested in true, but just to keep watching soccer and beautiful on tv. :|
Yeah, thanks for making non-sense. And learn to speak English if you want people to understand you.
What non-sense?
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#75 Post by spamel » 07 Dec 2010 23:42

Pure Steel wrote:
Belgarion wrote:
Pure Steel wrote:Not if half the people thinks it's not so important that our politicians do only thei interest and the ther half takes them as role-models. Lots of time I think people are not intrested in true, but just to keep watching soccer and beautiful on tv. :|
Yeah, thanks for making non-sense. And learn to speak English if you want people to understand you.
What non-sense?
read a post by Hansi Smurf for the perfect answer to that!
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#76 Post by Pure Steel » 08 Dec 2010 01:12

spamel wrote: read a post by Hansi Smurf for the perfect answer to that!
I'm not going to play hide and seek all around the forum to find it so be kind and post a link to that. And, besides, if you dunno italian political situation, please, don't talk about it and don't define it non-sense.
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#77 Post by ThePKH » 08 Dec 2010 01:25

You just can't make up stuff like this:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/12/152465.htm
"U.S. to Host World Press Freedom Day in 2011"
New media has empowered citizens around the world to report on their circumstances, express opinions on world events, and exchange information in environments sometimes hostile to such exercises of individuals’ right to freedom of expression. At the same time, we are concerned about the determination of some governments to censor and silence individuals, and to restrict the free flow of information. We mark events such as World Press Freedom Day in the context of our enduring commitment to support and expand press freedom and the free flow of information in this digital age.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#78 Post by spamel » 08 Dec 2010 12:16

Pure Steel wrote:
spamel wrote: read a post by Hansi Smurf for the perfect answer to that!
I'm not going to play hide and seek all around the forum to find it so be kind and post a link to that. And, besides, if you dunno italian political situation, please, don't talk about it and don't define it non-sense.
I didn't. get your head out of your arse and stop throwing a tantrum.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#79 Post by No‘am » 08 Dec 2010 14:41

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#80 Post by Ornendil » 08 Dec 2010 16:17

Pure Steel wrote:
Belgarion wrote:
Pure Steel wrote:Not if half the people thinks it's not so important that our politicians do only thei interest and the ther half takes them as role-models. Lots of time I think people are not intrested in true, but just to keep watching soccer and beautiful on tv. :|
Yeah, thanks for making non-sense. And learn to speak English if you want people to understand you.
What non-sense?
I think he meant the way you phrased your post. I too was unable to catch quite what you meant. You should clean up some writing mistakes and it will probably become clearer. :)
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#81 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 08 Dec 2010 17:59

actually i think the point is that Pure Steel replied to taj and not to belgarion.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#82 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 08 Dec 2010 19:19

I leave this topic along for a day and it goes apeshit.

Please people, let's stick to the matter at hand and debate facts, not prejuidice.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#83 Post by Pure Steel » 08 Dec 2010 22:00

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:actually i think the point is that Pure Steel replied to taj and not to belgarion.
Yes, I was replying to taj about the italian actual political situation. In fact I said to him that in Italy we're plenty of proof about our politician doing only their business (even before Assange's leaks), but it seems that even with those proofs italians don't care, instead they prefer watch tv or, even worst, to follow our leader's bad example.
Lo, there do I see my father... lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters and my brothers... lo, there do I see the line of my peolple back to the beginning... lo, the do call to me. They bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live Forever!!!!

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The Rider Of Rohan
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#84 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 08 Dec 2010 23:26

Well, apathy and admiration are democratic choices too.
spamel wrote:
Sleeping Dragon wrote:i just don't understand what's so wrong with being a woman...
Periods.

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#85 Post by spamel » 09 Dec 2010 01:07

I hope the nasty hackers continue to wreak havoc on the internets! Go get 'em, break the internets! :twisted:
My mother in law is a Balrog, and I'm telling you, she has wings!

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#86 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 24 Dec 2010 16:17

Assange claims he'll publish thousands of documents from and regarding Israel in the next couple of months.

He's a dead man for sure. :|
spamel wrote:
Sleeping Dragon wrote:i just don't understand what's so wrong with being a woman...
Periods.

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