Wikileaks insurance

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The Rider Of Rohan
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Wikileaks insurance

#1 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 03 Dec 2010 18:35

This is for all of you in support of a free internet. For those who don't know: Interpol has issued a warrant for Jullian Assange to be arrested, after he published his recent leaks this week.

Below is a torrent with 1,5 gigs of documents. It's protected by a password, which will be released if Assange is arrested.

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/572313 ... _insurance
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#2 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 03 Dec 2010 18:41

fuck yea!!! :twisted:
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#3 Post by End Of An Era » 03 Dec 2010 19:14

what does a free internet have do do with it? also, the warrant is flawed and most countries rejected it already. ;)

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#4 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 03 Dec 2010 19:38

It has everything to do with it. There's someone being prosecuted after he put information on the net, and that's a travesty. The moment we allow that to happen is the moment we accept that we live in a world where people can get in trouble for putting what is seen as the truth online - which completely contradicts the concepts of a free flow of information, free press and freedom of opinion. Things the internet is based on and in many way symbolizes.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#5 Post by Beren Ercharmion » 03 Dec 2010 19:40

http://wikileaks.info/

if anyone wants to access the site and it's down again due to hacker attacks...
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#6 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 03 Dec 2010 19:46

Makes you wonder who these hackers are. Most hackers I know are, through the nature of their hobby, in favor of an Internet where everything is allowed. That group of hackers is more likely to support wikileaks rather than sabotage it.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#7 Post by Beren Ercharmion » 03 Dec 2010 20:05

true enough...
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#8 Post by No‘am » 03 Dec 2010 20:59

First of all, isn't he officially wanted for sexual harassments?
And, more importantly, why should information that's published on the net get more special treatment than information published anywhere else?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#9 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 03 Dec 2010 21:02

it has more cats in it.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#10 Post by No‘am » 03 Dec 2010 21:06

I think my campus has more cats than the net.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#11 Post by Joost » 03 Dec 2010 21:30

No‘am wrote:First of all, isn't he officially wanted for sexual harassments?
And, more importantly, why should information that's published on the net get more special treatment than information published anywhere else?
He's officially wanted for something along the lines of "sex without a condom" or "surprise sex" (no kidding!) or something, as it seems.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2 ... ainst.html

Something tells me that it isn't very common for Interpol to attach such importance to charges like this...
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#12 Post by Belgarion » 03 Dec 2010 21:45

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#13 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 03 Dec 2010 21:51

No‘am wrote:First of all, isn't he officially wanted for sexual harassments?
I'd say that s quite irrelevant. From the timing of the legal actions it seems quite obvious that they're about silencing him. There's not a law in the western world which could be used against him for publishing leaked documents, so it looks like they took the next best thing.
And, more importantly, why should information that's published on the net get more special treatment than information published anywhere else?
Dunno. Perhaps we should ask the people who issued the warrant for the arrest, or the people who are behind the attack on WL's servers. I bet they can tell us why exactly this is such a big deal.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#14 Post by End Of An Era » 03 Dec 2010 22:31

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:It has everything to do with it. There's someone being prosecuted after he put information on the net, and that's a travesty. The moment we allow that to happen is the moment we accept that we live in a world where people can get in trouble for putting what is seen as the truth online - which completely contradicts the concepts of a free flow of information, free press and freedom of opinion. Things the internet is based on and in many way symbolizes.
yeah but pay attention: internet is just the medium here. it's about the information, not about the internet per sé ;)

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#15 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 03 Dec 2010 22:48

It's true that it's a medium, and that's the whole deal. It's a medium which excels at sharing information, and should be able to to so in the many years to come. That's why it's unacceptable to accept any attack on the information itself (hacks) or the people who put the information there (Assange). The moment we accept things like that is the moment we stop using the internet for what it's best at.

Surely there will still be pr0n and lolcatz, but that's not the point. :wink:
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#16 Post by Edain » 04 Dec 2010 02:15

Just downloaded it. This man must be supported by any means. These days we see the true face of our modern democratic western system - respectable politicians, even in "harmless" states call for the death of a man who did nothing but tell the truth. Websites get shut down.

If we don't stop that shit right now, 2010 will be the year, the internet, free speech, modern democracy (where are the true politicians who support that guy?) died.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#17 Post by Led Guardian » 04 Dec 2010 03:33

Edain wrote:If we don't stop that shit right now, 2010 will be the year, the internet, free speech, modern democracy (where are the true politicians who support that guy?) died.
That's a rather silly hyperbole. Let's not get too melodramatic here. :wink:
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#18 Post by End Of An Era » 04 Dec 2010 09:49

Led Guardian wrote:
Edain wrote:If we don't stop that shit right now, 2010 will be the year, the internet, free speech, modern democracy (where are the true politicians who support that guy?) died.
That's a rather silly hyperbole. Let's not get too melodramatic here. :wink:
modern democracy? explain :P

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#19 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 11:13

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:
And, more importantly, why should information that's published on the net get more special treatment than information published anywhere else?
Dunno. Perhaps we should ask the people who issued the warrant for the arrest, or the people who are behind the attack on WL's servers. I bet they can tell us why exactly this is such a big deal.
I was actually more aiming this to you since you seemed to regard releasing classified information on the internet as okay, I wondered if you/Edain or others that feel the same, also feel the same about classified information being published in the newspapers, TV or on the street.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#20 Post by Edain » 04 Dec 2010 11:24

I know that was very melodramatic, that was my intention. :P But I stick to my statement - when in modern democracies members of the governments call for the head of somebody who did nothing unlawful (that's true AFAIR, he just published information that already leaked, didn't he?), that's a veritable crisis. Up to now they just wanted to block child porn sites, now even states like France demand the shutdown of a site - only because it's politically uncomfortable. I'd call that a crisis.

No'am: Of course, if the information is of public interest. I know, that's a very vague definition - but in doubt, it is. The governments are our servants, not we theirs - they mustn't lie to the sovereign.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#21 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 11:52

No‘am wrote:
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:
And, more importantly, why should information that's published on the net get more special treatment than information published anywhere else?
Dunno. Perhaps we should ask the people who issued the warrant for the arrest, or the people who are behind the attack on WL's servers. I bet they can tell us why exactly this is such a big deal.
I was actually more aiming this to you since you seemed to regard releasing classified information on the internet as okay, I wondered if you/Edain or others that feel the same, also feel the same about classified information being published in the newspapers, TV or on the street.
I would probably feel the same.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#22 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 11:53

Well, if the documents are classified then he did do something unlawful, whether they were already leaked or not. And besides, 99% of the documents are just tabloid gossip with no other interest to the public.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#23 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 11:54

The Rider Of Rohan wrote: I would probably feel the same.
So you pretty much think publishing classified information shouldn't be illegal?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#24 Post by Edain » 04 Dec 2010 12:04

So why is Assange charged only for sexual harassment and not for betrayal of state secrets or something like that? I'm not really into US-law so I don't know the details - but up to now I didn't hear any information about him being impeached by any US-court...?

I could agree with you that publishing these diplomatic information might not have been necessary - but not really harmful either, as you said, 99 % were mere diplomatic gossip. I'd see this as a harmless collateral damage ( :wink: ) in Wikileaks highly necessary struggle for truth. And to answer your question: As long as states can cover amoral and unlawful behaviour by making the information "classified" it must be possible to uncover them.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#25 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 12:22

No‘am wrote:
The Rider Of Rohan wrote: I would probably feel the same.
So you pretty much think publishing classified information shouldn't be illegal?
Pretty much, yeah. Try turning the argument upside-down to see my point. Imagine you have a country who possesses this-and-that information, and the government has the power to withdraw the information from the public debate simply by giving that information classified status. By doing so they can legally brand everybody who talks about it or write about it as a traitor, and lock them up permanently. For the common good, of course. In this particular example you'd end up with something extremely close to a dictatorship.
So why is Assange charged only for sexual harassment and not for betrayal of state secrets or something like that? I'm not really into US-law so I don't know the details - but up to now I didn't hear any information about him being impeached by any US-court...?
To me it's quite obvious that the sexual harassment is a facade to silence the man. I don't have any proof to support this notion, but from the timing and the information Joost pointed out, it's a no-brainer to me. If it wouldn't have been sexual herassment, it would've been a tax fraud something else. Truth is there's not a law in the world which can punish Assange for what he did.

The US law is quite irrelevant in this case, as it doesn't apply to what goes on outside the US-borders.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#26 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 12:24

I don't get the thing with these charges. But classified information that is classified in order to prevent people from getting hurt probably has a good reason to be classified. And that's the trust that you put in your elected representatives.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#27 Post by spamel » 04 Dec 2010 12:38

People should be held to account for their actions, regardless of their political position or wealth or lack thereof. One MP in UK has been found guilty of swiping money from the public coffers through false accountancy, he pleaded guilty after publicly bemoaning the issue and stating he was innocent. Why did he plead guilty then? Because he knew he was, and tried for a lesser sentence by holding his hands up. The public see through his shenanigans, and his fellow accused who are also due up in court and will no doubt do the same thing, but we have again been punished as we have paid immense costs due to all of this.

If the files from WikiLeaks are false, then there is nothing to worry about. If they are true and there has been wrongdoing f some sort, then those people should be exposed, rightly. Using the Armed Forces' safety as an excuse is wrong IMO, as they are fighting for the freedom of us all, and this makes a mockery of their sacrifices.

I may not have wrote this as eloquently as it should be written, and no doubt somebody will pick holes in it but take it as being my thoughts, the thoughts of an ex-soldier and the thoughts of somebody who feels justice has been perverted in recent years and we are all governed by a den of liars and thieves.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#28 Post by spamel » 04 Dec 2010 12:39

No‘am wrote:I don't get the thing with these charges. But classified information that is classified in order to prevent people from getting hurt probably has a good reason to be classified. And that's the trust that you put in your elected representatives.
Elected? And that is a choice? "You can either elect the liar or the thief, but that is a democratic choice!" Don't make me laugh!
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#29 Post by Edain » 04 Dec 2010 12:41

Of course the rape case is facade - especially if you consider that having sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable for rape. Almost like a bad spy movie, isn't it?

And No'am: Rider of Rohan pointed it out quite well. Yes, there is a reason for much classified information: covering war crimes, preventing the responsible politicians from charges of such, covering the ties between politics and industry/economy, much more - no, I think publishing these massive misconducts of our representatives shouldn't be illegal. It MUST not be illegal or you'd come quite close to a dictatorship.
I may not have wrote this as eloquently as it should be written, and no doubt somebody will pick holes in it but take it as being my thoughts, the thoughts of an ex-soldier and the thoughts of somebody who feels justice has been perverted in recent years and we are all governed by a den of liars and thieves.
Amen.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#30 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 12:53

Plus, according to Wikipedia (and not presented anywhere else that I've seen that deals with this issue) the investigations and allegations against him began a couple of months ago and had a warrant issued him before he released the documents. So the red note issued by the interpol might not be due to the leaks. A conspiracy theorist might even think that he released these documents in order to divert or minimise attention to those sexual misconduct issues.
By the way, "having sex without a condom" is considered achieving sexual relations by deception/fraud in some places, which I think can equate to some kind of rape thing. I don't know the situation in Sweden, though.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#31 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 12:59

I side with Edain in this. First of all, it's important to remember that there is a war of a sort going on right now, and a new and more conventional war right around the corner. As long as Iran intends to point their nukes towards Jerusalem, the world is one push on a red button away from WW3. And as we all know, the first thing to die in a war is the truth. The first things the nazi's did when the red army marched on the German borders was to set fire to all archives, and in retrospect we could've wished that there was someone like Assange back then to secure and publish those documents for the world to learn from.

I do believe in the idea of putting trust in our leaders, but not at all costs and most definitely not at the cost of the individual. Simply putting a classified-stamp on a document is not enough, because there's no democratic review of that decision, which makes the politicians immune to criticism. This is wrong, as politicians should be accountable for their choices.

And I'd like to add that the biggest revelations from the wikileaks were that Saudi Arabia is in support of invading Iran, and the fact that Pakistan still funds international terrorism. Those leaders weren't chosen in a democratic way at all, and I see little reason to put faith in them - I only wish for our leaders to lead by example and not becoming that they profess to oppose.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#32 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 13:07

Spamel I really don't get your point, who's preventing you from electing someone who's not a criminal? Or do you consider any person that was/will ever be in a position of power automatically a criminal?
Edain, the fact classification gets abused by politicians doesn't mean that that's the only use of it, right? That all documents ever classified are cover ups of misconduct by our representatives?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#33 Post by spamel » 04 Dec 2010 13:18

No‘am wrote:Spamel I really don't get your point, who's preventing you from electing someone who's not a criminal? Or do you consider any person that was/will ever be in a position of power automatically a criminal?
Edain, the fact classification gets abused by politicians doesn't mean that that's the only use of it, right? That all documents ever classified are cover ups of misconduct by our representatives?
What i am saying is the choice we have isn't much of a choice at all. I'm not sure about other countries, but this country requires a person to accumulate some sort of funds to gain a place in the voting process, I'm not completely sure of the process but I believe it is 15000 pounds that is not refundable, so you pay that and don't win, tough. Also, you're up against the big parties, so even if you do win, there isn't much you can do. I don't doubt there are good people in British Government and in opposition parties, but a lot are in for the power and the money, not to help the public (at least not before they help themselves). It all seems a bit George Orwell "Animal Farm" to me. (Don't want to get mixed up with the other Animal Farm that some people may have seen! lol)
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#34 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 13:27

No‘am wrote:Plus, according to Wikipedia (and not presented anywhere else that I've seen that deals with this issue) the investigations and allegations against him began a couple of months ago and had a warrant issued him before he released the documents. So the red note issued by the interpol might not be due to the leaks. A conspiracy theorist might even think that he released these documents in order to divert or minimise attention to those sexual misconduct issues
Actually I believe you got your timeline wrong, as there seems to be a casual relationship between the allegations and the publishing of documents which come from US sources.

Timeline, constructed from wikipedia:

- On 25 July 2010 WikiLeaks released to The Guardian, The New York Times, and Der Spiegel over 92,000 documents related to the war in Afghanistan
- On 20 August 2010, an investigation was opened against Assange in Sweden in connection with an allegation that he had raped a woman in Enköping"
- On 22 November 2010 an announcement was made by the WikiLeaks twitter feed that the next release would be "7x the size of the Iraq War Logs
- 30 November 2010, Interpol issued a red notice against Assange on behalf of Sweden for questioning on allegations of sex crimes"
Last edited by The Rider Of Rohan on 04 Dec 2010 13:28, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#35 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 13:27

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:And I'd like to add that the biggest revelations from the wikileaks were that Saudi Arabia is in support of invading Iran, and the fact that Pakistan still funds international terrorism. Those leaders weren't chosen in a democratic way at all, and I see little reason to put faith in them - I only wish for our leaders to lead by example and not becoming that they profess to oppose.
I'd also like to add that I think these were the only actual revelations, at least from the information I've read. And that it's nothing new, everyone involved already knew it perfectly well. The only outcome I see of these publications is the press and journalists trying to make heaps of money off these publications by getting people wanting to buy a paper with the headline "some secretary in the White House called Berlusconi a party animal that likes young women" or something of the sort.
And giving leaders the abilities to classify documents is one of the ways you put trust in them, just like you let them control budgets and write laws.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#36 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 13:38

And giving leaders the abilities to classify documents is one of the ways you put trust in them, just like you let them control budgets and write laws.
True, but there's no trust without accountability. In fact, in a true democracy the trust comes from the fact that politicians are accountable for the things they do. So that's the difference between a classified document and budget control. When you don't like the budget a politician is setting, it is the right of the people not to re-elect him. You are able to do so, because you have the information: it's there, you are able to read it, make up your mind and decide if you can place trust in the person for four more years.

Also, please keep in mind that classified documents are not the issue of debate itself - it's what they describe. In the case of the Afghan files, they described covert ops, US propaganda, international espionage and government lies about the number of civilian casualties. Information that should be documented for generations to come, and not be covered up by a politician simply because the information is inconvenient in the light of upcoming elections.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#37 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 13:56

spamel wrote:What i am saying is the choice we have isn't much of a choice at all. I'm not sure about other countries, but this country requires a person to accumulate some sort of funds to gain a place in the voting process, I'm not completely sure of the process but I believe it is 15000 pounds that is not refundable, so you pay that and don't win, tough. Also, you're up against the big parties, so even if you do win, there isn't much you can do. I don't doubt there are good people in British Government and in opposition parties, but a lot are in for the power and the money, not to help the public (at least not before they help themselves). It all seems a bit George Orwell "Animal Farm" to me. (Don't want to get mixed up with the other Animal Farm that some people may have seen! lol)
I assume that funding thing exists in most places some way or the other. I also guess that the thought that someone who's gonna get enough votes when elected wouldn't have trouble getting enough funding to enter himself into the elections (and it's a small sum anyway considering how much you'd need to spend to get yourself known).
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Actually I believe you got your timeline wrong, as there seems to be a casual relationship between the allegations and the publishing of documents which come from US sources.

Timeline, constructed from wikipedia:

- On 25 July 2010 WikiLeaks released to The Guardian, The New York Times, and Der Spiegel over 92,000 documents related to the war in Afghanistan
- On 20 August 2010, an investigation was opened against Assange in Sweden in connection with an allegation that he had raped a woman in Enköping"
- On 22 November 2010 an announcement was made by the WikiLeaks twitter feed that the next release would be "7x the size of the Iraq War Logs
- 30 November 2010, Interpol issued a red notice against Assange on behalf of Sweden for questioning on allegations of sex crimes"
I won't totally rule it out, but I still think the fact he got set up in Sweden because of those publications is a bit far fetched.
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:True, but there's no trust without accountability. In fact, in a true democracy the trust comes from the fact that politicians are accountable for the things they do. So that's the difference between a classified document and budget control. When you don't like the budget a politician is setting, it is the right of the people not to re-elect him. You are able to do so, because you have the information: it's there, you are able to read it, make up your mind and decide if you can place trust in the person for four more years.
I gave the budget examples as trust that the politician wouldn't embezzle, and less that he'd put the budget exactly where you want it.
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Also, please keep in mind that classified documents are not the issue of debate itself - it's what they describe. In the case of the Afghan files, they described covert ops, US propaganda, international espionage and government lies about the number of civilian casualties. Information that should be documented for generations to come, and not be covered up by a politician simply because the information is inconvenient in the light of upcoming elections.
Classifying information wrongly on purpose is misconduct, but I still think that it's considered a crime to publish classified documents, regardless of their contents.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#38 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 14:14

I won't totally rule it out, but I still think the fact he got set up in Sweden because of those publications is a bit far fetched.
I wouldn't sway it's far fetched. After the release of the Afghani documents, Obama's administation urged a number of countries to arrest Assange. Documented countries incluse Germany, Austalia and the UK, but it's not unthinkable there might be more. There have been many hints of diplomatic American pressure being what prompted the Pirate Bay raids in 2006, so it's not that far fetched to think Sweden is happy to enforce American policy.
Classifying information wrongly on purpose is misconduct, but I still think that it's considered a crime to publish classified documents, regardless of their contents.
Well, we have to agree to disagree on this point. I for one refuse to shoot the messenger.
I gave the budget examples as trust that the politician wouldn't embezzle, and less that he'd put the budget exactly where you want it.
I'd say that this last bit is quite irrelevant. It's not about getting what you want, it's about accountability. In a nutshell that's the difference between faith, and blind faith. Politicians aren't judged by the questions they raise, but by the answers they give.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#39 Post by No‘am » 04 Dec 2010 14:21

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:
Classifying information wrongly on purpose is misconduct, but I still think that it's considered a crime to publish classified documents, regardless of their contents.
Well, we have to agree to disagree on this point. I for one refuse to shoot the messenger.
I meant to say that that's what the law states, not what I think about it.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#40 Post by Edain » 04 Dec 2010 14:44

Berthold Brecht once said "Wo Unrecht Recht wird, wird Widerstand zu Pflicht.", something like "When injustice becomes law, restistance becomes duty.". I think that sums it up quite well. Even if we're democrats, we must not accept all results of the representative democracy and we clearly must NOT accept a misuse of these laws.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#41 Post by Beren Ercharmion » 04 Dec 2010 15:47

WOW, it's getting worse and worse, now Paypal has blocked Wikileak's account.

I really wonder why they start getiing serious now, this whole Cablegate was quite silly, compared to the Iraq and Afghan war log, ot that video where those two Reuters-journalists got killed by US Helicopters.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#42 Post by End Of An Era » 04 Dec 2010 16:08

Edain wrote:Berthold Brecht once said "Wo Unrecht Recht wird, wird Widerstand zu Pflicht.", something like "When injustice becomes law, restistance becomes duty.". I think that sums it up quite well. Even if we're democrats, we must not accept all results of the representative democracy and we clearly must NOT accept a misuse of these laws.
totally agree. :)

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#43 Post by Joost » 04 Dec 2010 16:20

I don't think it's even remotely possible to understand the strong reactions by governments, without understanding the anarchist tendencies of Julian Assange. His project is not about exposing some of the fishy sides of the government, his project is about exposing government, and even more so, authoritarianism itself.

Reading Assange's 2006 manifesto State and Terrorist Conspiracies should clear up a lot, including the apparent mystery why governments are reacting so much more strongly to Assange (even calling for his assassination!) than they were to the Iraqi or Afghan war logs.

BTW, it's quite funny to see people with right-wing tendencies be so enthousiastic about the kind of stuff Assange's doing. We're talking about a guy here who is a child of the Melbourne squatter's movement, who talks about 'exposing authoritarianism', and who has quoted Gustav Landauer and Emma Goldman in his blogs and manifestos. To think he's just doing the Wikileaks thing for fun, without an underlying political agenda, is terribly naïve.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#44 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 16:30

He might have an agenda, and I say he has the right to do so. Part of having a democratic political system is being able to accept the existence of opposing views. It's what separates us from the towelheads. Even if his motives are questionable he should still be able to keep them, without fear of prosecution or assassination.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#45 Post by Joost » 04 Dec 2010 16:41

Well, I think Assange's main point is that the current 'democratic systems' do not accept the existence of opposing views (viz.: Assange's views). Stephen Harper, prime minister of Canada and member of the Conservative party there, has the questionable honour to be the first political leader to openly call for a critic's assassination, since Ayatollah Khomeini did a similar thing with Salman Rushdie in 1989. Jeffrey Kuhner, president of the Edmund Burke Institute, a well-known conservative think tank, as well as columnist for the Washington Times, has issued the following words:
News reports say the WikiLeaks founder is hiding out in England. If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him.
What exactly separates the democratic West from 'the towelheads', again?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#46 Post by ThePKH » 04 Dec 2010 16:53

Joost wrote:What exactly separates the democratic West from 'the towelheads', again?
The towel. I guess it has been about the towels all the time.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#47 Post by Belgarion » 04 Dec 2010 18:41

News reports say the WikiLeaks founder is hiding out in England. If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him.
I like how he is still being polite whilst encouraging the execution of Mr. Assange. A typical Bond villain.
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#48 Post by Lord Borbak » 06 Dec 2010 02:36

Joost wrote:Well, I think Assange's main point is that the current 'democratic systems' do not accept the existence of opposing views (viz.: Assange's views). Stephen Harper, prime minister of Canada and member of the Conservative party there, has the questionable honour to be the first political leader to openly call for a critic's assassination, since Ayatollah Khomeini did a similar thing with Salman Rushdie in 1989. Jeffrey Kuhner, president of the Edmund Burke Institute, a well-known conservative think tank, as well as columnist for the Washington Times, has issued the following words:
News reports say the WikiLeaks founder is hiding out in England. If that's true, we should treat Mr. Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him.
What exactly separates the democratic West from 'the towelheads', again?
Not to be rude, but you should get your fact straight. Stephen Harper, prime minister of Canada, DIDN'T call for Assange's assassination. It was Tom Flanagan, an ex-adviser for Harper, who joked on TV that Assange's should be assassinated. It was bad taste, but it wasn't serious and he apologized.

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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#49 Post by power_dysfunction » 06 Dec 2010 08:33

I believe in absolute freedom of speech, with almost no restrictions (and those must be very rigidly and narrowly defined). I believe that secrecy is anathema to a democracy, as you can't cast an informed vote if you don't know half of what your representatives are doing. I don't believe Assange can or should be charged with a crime (unless he actually did commit a sex crime, which I don't believe but it's not my right to decide that), and I hope Wikileaks continues its work for the foreseeable future.

But.

Assange's interest is not in holding governments accountable, or informing their people so that they may hold their governments accountable, or forcing those governments to change. He is interested in hampering the ability of governments to act, and ultimately in bringing them down.

This latest batch of leaks contained evidence of no significant malfeasance on the part of American officials. This wasn't the Pentagon papers, or the reports on abuse at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, or the revelation of the NSA's warrantless wiretapping. Rather, these leaks actually increased my confidence (albeit only from very low to low) in the competence and ingenuity of American foreign policy dealing with impossible situations, especially under the Obama administration. What's the point of leaking information that will hamper American diplomacy when that information contains no revelations of wrongdoing?
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Re: Wikileaks insurance

#50 Post by Pure Steel » 06 Dec 2010 12:51

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:This is for all of you in support of a free internet. For those who don't know: Interpol has issued a warrant for Jullian Assange to be arrested, after he published his recent leaks this week.

Below is a torrent with 1,5 gigs of documents. It's protected by a password, which will be released if Assange is arrested.

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/572313 ... _insurance

This really seems a fake. I mean, every file can be opened with enough time and technology, so it seems to me a really poor insurance.
Even though I don't think Assange deserve such a hunt (I'm for free information), I'm wondering about who really is there behind this man. He seems the defender of the free information but I think he has a little too much money, security and opportunities aroud himself to be on his own. I don't think it's sci-fi if we say that there's a bigger power that allows him to do what he does, the very question is: Assange is being "directed" on the information he leaks?
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