The legilization of marijuana

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Baby_Kürsch
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The legilization of marijuana

#1 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 23 Sep 2010 03:02

I am eagerly awaiting the end of November to come to see if California passes the law to make it legal for everyone!! I hear they are decriminalizing it in Texas this year or at least putting it on the ballad. I am 100% for the legalization and responsible use (like alcohol) of marijuana. Anyone for this?? Anyone against this?? Discuss!

Before you start spouting off myths about marijuana let me post this fantastic website that has several sources to back up everything they claim! I find that having different sources for information you find on the internet to be uber important.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Here is another site which has some interesting claims but doesn't always have the best sources for their information so sometimes you have to pick and choose.

http://www.gsalternative.com/

I dont know if this topic if off limits. So this is my test post. But we have a topic here called "Fuck Jews" so I dont see why this would be off limits.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#2 Post by Led Guardian » 23 Sep 2010 03:12

Baby_Kürsch wrote:I dont know if this topic if off limits. So this is my test post. But we have a topic here called "Fuck Jews" so I dont see why this would be off limits.
But this is about something illegal in places, whereas that topic is just about sex. :P

But seriously, I'm for it. It will take an enormous load off of our prison system, as well as increasing tax revenue. And I don't see how it will change anything negatively, since people are already allowed to drink to excess.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#3 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 23 Sep 2010 03:14

I've never actually read the topic I have just seen it. :lol:

I agree with you 100%
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#4 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 23 Sep 2010 03:25

you know...i think the legalization of marijuana should not be similar to the way Alcohol or Tobacco is manufactured,that'd just create an unheathy and filthy product,so,if the legalization is in that kinda way,i'm against it.

On the other hand,i'm all for the legalization of growing your own plants in your own house,thus keeping the plant pure.And maybe also have designated places where people can buy and smoke there,or simply order it "to go",but the important thing:keep it as natural as possible.

this said by a guy who usually gets really baked on weekends.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#5 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 23 Sep 2010 03:30

I dont think they should process it cause I like my weed pure just like you!!! I like to get stoned when I can afford it. We dont make a lot of money so buying marijuana is something special and I make it last as long as possible. I would love to be able to grow my own shit! My dad has a prescription (he lives in California) and is growing 6 different strains at his house and said he'd try to bring me some in December when he comes for Christmas. My uncle is helping him and my uncles shit is the best shit Ive ever smoked!!

How do you like to smoke??
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#6 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 23 Sep 2010 03:51

i usually just roll it,when i run short on paper i use my little weed pipe(wooden,the lame kind of pipe).back in the day i used to bake these pot-cakes with some friends,and the effect was waaaay longer and hilarious,though it does take a little more pot and time than just rollin' and smoking.

Cool thing what your dad is doing,that's actually the way to go,because the plant will grow exactly how he wants it.Nice thing that your dad is gonna share his stash with you man,i seriously envy you,my dad is the regular "por is the same as cocaine" kind of man :|

BTW,i'm thinking about growing my own pot,but indoors,since it's illegal.Just need to calculate how much the light bills will rise up and also figure an automated system for watering and vaporizing,besides extracting the odours and all...quite a project,don't really know when to start.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#7 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 23 Sep 2010 03:55

The smell of an adult plant is OVERWHELMING!!!! Controlling it and the bugs that will kill your plant will be that hardest part.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#8 Post by Led Guardian » 23 Sep 2010 04:11

This conversation is pretty :lol:
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#9 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 23 Sep 2010 15:36

Led Guardian wrote:This conversation is pretty :lol:
ain't it?that's because MJ is pretty :)
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#10 Post by Joost » 23 Sep 2010 17:02

I'm all for legalization. As for myself though, a couple of weeks ago I decided to stay away from the stuff* at least for the next couple of months. Still, I can say my experiences with cannabis have been rather positive and worthwhile in general, more so than those of alcohol at least. (But why quit, then, would you ask? The answer is simple. The mere fact that its experiences are more worthwhile than those of alcohol to me is a sign that I have to watch out for possibilities of addiction, and I don't want to risk even getting close to there.)

In general, I think a lot of people tend to either overestimate the dangers of cannabis (the anti-druggies), or underestimate the dangers (the potheads). I really don't buy the 'cannabis is a harmless drug' thing, but in general, I would rate its harm on a level similar to alcohol. Which is, to be frank, a level I would describe as 'quite harmful'.

But in the end, it should be people's own choice whether to use cannabis or not. I can definitely respect both choices if they are made in a well-considered manner.

But I would personally say that leaving the ultimate responsibility to the people is both more fair and more efficient than criminalizing cannabis and continuing the bottomless pit called the 'war on drugs'. As far as I can see, there is hardly a correlation between the legal status of a drug, and the amount of problems caused by it (and if there is one, it's perhaps even a negative one: just look at what the Prohibition did in the US). Legalizing cannabis would, on the other hand, lead to a) better control of cannabis quality (and perhaps even things like indicators of the THC content in it, just like for alcoholic drinks it is obligatory to show the alcohol percentage), b) extra tax money (which can be spent on informing people about drugs and their dangers in general in a better way), c) money currently spent on the 'war on drugs' can instead be spent on other, more serious, crimes. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Some of the things mentioned here actually are false. Marijuana isn't a drug devoid of risks, and definitely shouldn't be treated as such. There has been recent research (I can look up references later) establishing that:

- There is a positive correlation between cannabis consumption and certain mental disorders, e.g. psychosis and schizophrenia.
- THC content of cannabis has, at least in the Netherlands, drastically increased during the last ten years (close to doubling, IIRC), as a result of selection on specifically potent strains of cannabis.
- Effect of marijuana on lungs: well, obviously from eating spacecake you wouldn't get any lung damage (and, as far as I know, there is no physical harm at all associated with spacecake). But smoking one joint definitele fills your lungs with more tar than smoking one cigarette. Unless, perhaps, you do a Bill Clinton and smoke without inhaling. But where's the fun in that? Of course there are other ways of smoking cannabis than smoking joints, such as vaporizers and the likes, which are indeed less damaging to the lungs. But the most common way of using cannabis, namely smoking joints, is in fact quite damaging to the lungs.


* Not that I was a frequent user before that. But the frequency did slowly increase from once or twice a year, to once every few months, to once per two weeks, and at that point I decided to put a halt to it. Most potheads definitely would say that that was still not much, but I really felt I was getting a bit close to a danger zone.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#11 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 23 Sep 2010 19:40

I think it's a good idea. I'm not really in favor of using drugs, but everybody should have the choice to use it or not. And legalizing and taxing it would take it out of the hands of criminals - which has bonusses for everyone on both sides.

Besides. The amount of potheads (per ratio, I know that there are huge differences in population) is lower in the Netherlands where there's no prosecution, than in the US where it's forbidden.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#12 Post by Desert_Storm » 23 Sep 2010 19:48

I always thought it would be a good idea to legalize it. Not because it's a completely harmless drug, but because the risks are IMHO comparable to those of alcohol which is legal too, what makes the prosecution of marijuana quite arbitrary. We had the discussion several times in Switzerland, but the propositions to legalize it were always rejected by the right wing because dope is "too dangerous". Funny enough, coming from the same party that wants every male adolescent to serve in military and have an infantry rifle at home :roll:. That, though, is a tradition and therefor indisputable. What brings us back to why alcohol is allowed and marijuana isn't.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#13 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 23 Sep 2010 19:55

I concur on the alcohol thingy.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#14 Post by Joost » 23 Sep 2010 20:10

So, where are the opponents?
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#15 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 23 Sep 2010 20:59

praying or something i guess :mrgreen:
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#16 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 23 Sep 2010 23:54

Joost wrote:I'm all for legalization. As for myself though, a couple of weeks ago I decided to stay away from the stuff* at least for the next couple of months. Still, I can say my experiences with cannabis have been rather positive and worthwhile in general, more so than those of alcohol at least. (But why quit, then, would you ask? The answer is simple. The mere fact that its experiences are more worthwhile than those of alcohol to me is a sign that I have to watch out for possibilities of addiction, and I don't want to risk even getting close to there.)

In general, I think a lot of people tend to either overestimate the dangers of cannabis (the anti-druggies), or underestimate the dangers (the potheads). I really don't buy the 'cannabis is a harmless drug' thing, but in general, I would rate its harm on a level similar to alcohol. Which is, to be frank, a level I would describe as 'quite harmful'.

But in the end, it should be people's own choice whether to use cannabis or not. I can definitely respect both choices if they are made in a well-considered manner.

But I would personally say that leaving the ultimate responsibility to the people is both more fair and more efficient than criminalizing cannabis and continuing the bottomless pit called the 'war on drugs'. As far as I can see, there is hardly a correlation between the legal status of a drug, and the amount of problems caused by it (and if there is one, it's perhaps even a negative one: just look at what the Prohibition did in the US). Legalizing cannabis would, on the other hand, lead to a) better control of cannabis quality (and perhaps even things like indicators of the THC content in it, just like for alcoholic drinks it is obligatory to show the alcohol percentage), b) extra tax money (which can be spent on informing people about drugs and their dangers in general in a better way), c) money currently spent on the 'war on drugs' can instead be spent on other, more serious, crimes. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Some of the things mentioned here actually are false. Marijuana isn't a drug devoid of risks, and definitely shouldn't be treated as such. There has been recent research (I can look up references later) establishing that:

- There is a positive correlation between cannabis consumption and certain mental disorders, e.g. psychosis and schizophrenia.
- THC content of cannabis has, at least in the Netherlands, drastically increased during the last ten years (close to doubling, IIRC), as a result of selection on specifically potent strains of cannabis.
- Effect of marijuana on lungs: well, obviously from eating spacecake you wouldn't get any lung damage (and, as far as I know, there is no physical harm at all associated with spacecake). But smoking one joint definitely fills your lungs with more tar than smoking one cigarette. Unless, perhaps, you do a Bill Clinton and smoke without inhaling. But where's the fun in that? Of course there are other ways of smoking cannabis than smoking joints, such as vaporizers and the likes, which are indeed less damaging to the lungs. But the most common way of using cannabis, namely smoking joints, is in fact quite damaging to the lungs.


* Not that I was a frequent user before that. But the frequency did slowly increase from once or twice a year, to once every few months, to once per two weeks, and at that point I decided to put a halt to it. Most potheads definitely would say that that was still not much, but I really felt I was getting a bit close to a danger zone.
Do you have any medical/scientific sources to back these things up? I also ask because everything they talk about on the website has at least 2 (2 is the smallest amount of sources given in a single topic on this website) different medical/scientific sources they you can verify using the internet and thats why I trust this website more than any other website Ive read anything about marijuana on. I honestly wont believe anything you say if you cant back it up and its not because I think you are a liar or not trustworthy. I can give a few sites that has positive correlation between slowing cancer growth (with study cases) in marijuana users and one that claims, and has a study case, that cannabinoids (THC) can possibly help lower your cholesterol levels if taken orally (not being smoked). Im only skeptical of the things you say because in my country (The United States) marijuana has been demonized and most people have been lied to about it all their lives and the effect it has on people. It was legal until the 1930's when prohibition (of alcohol as well) was start by Harry Anslinger (it also has to do with the timber company's fearing hemp would push them out of business and also has to do with people being racists towards Mexicans) and what would become the DEA. But thats a WWWHHHOOOOLLLLLLEEEEEE other topic.

EDIT: I realize you said you would provided sources for your information and I am eagerly awaiting your reply. I am a avid marijuana user (when we can afford it) and I read as much about it as possible. I have been using it for almost 13 years now and do not plan on quitting any time soon.

EDIT 2: "With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked." So yes there is evidence that marijuana can cause psychosis.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#17 Post by Metal Fan » 24 Sep 2010 00:15

I'm for it! Let 'em kill themselfs!
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#18 Post by Desert_Storm » 24 Sep 2010 00:18

Metal Fan wrote:I'm for it! Let 'em kill themselfs!
Sorry, who?
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#19 Post by Metal Fan » 24 Sep 2010 00:24

The people taking the stuff.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#20 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 24 Sep 2010 00:29

Are you being serious?
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#21 Post by Cerbere » 24 Sep 2010 01:03

Metal Fan wrote:I'm for it! Let 'em kill themselfs!
It's spelled themselves.

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#22 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 24 Sep 2010 04:46

Metal Fan wrote:The people taking the stuff.
afaik there is no such thing as a pot overdose,the only way to die by using marihuana would be ,i guess,lung cancer or other lung related diseases,since any smoke you inhale will slowly fuck up your lungs,just as inhaling too much cigarrete smoke,or dunno,asbestus and stuff like that.

Marihuana is not a "tough"drug,otherwise i'd be dead long ago,jeez,even my Doc.has advised me to take pot for my back pains and day to day stress,instead of using legal drugs(prozac and such).

there's a lot of misinformation on the subject,in favor or against it,there are kind of grey areas that havent really been discussed,
For example,i've heard politicians say "once the kids get pot,then they'll want cocaine,then heroine,then meth,crack,etc"...but from what i see,long time pot smokers don't even come near those drugs.Maybe the really unstable people,looking for the ultimate thrill to take them out of their miserable lives in their ghetto's will go on an escalade of using even more harmful drugs,but from my experience and from the experience of close friends and family,haven't really seen that happen.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#23 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 24 Sep 2010 05:06

MARYWANA IS A GATE WAY DRUG!!!!!!!
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#24 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 24 Sep 2010 05:20

Baby_Kürsch wrote:MARYWANA IS A GATE WAY DRUG!!!!!!!
man,i've heard people tell me that for years ,and i'm all..."mmmyeaahhh ok...i'll get back to you when i'm hooked on crack living in an abandoned house"
:lol:
but then again,there are vulnerable types of people that might go that way...i know a few of those,but their escalade on drug abuse has more to do with the shitty miserable lives they have lived,and if one drug was the "gateway" to that self destruction,i'd have to say it's alcohol.Now that's a real brain destroyer,and it's legal,lol
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#25 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 24 Sep 2010 05:36

Im a pot head loser! I have a full time job, with benefits, a nice apartment, a nice computer, a beautiful wife, 2 kick ass dogs, a lil boy on the way and we own (no payments) 2 cars!! MARYWANA IS BBBBBBAAAAADDDDD!!!!!
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#26 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 24 Sep 2010 05:52

"i have all that,but i don't need pot,because i have jeeezuz"
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#27 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 24 Sep 2010 06:16

Jesus actually told me to smoke more weed.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#28 Post by ThePKH » 24 Sep 2010 10:58

Joost wrote:So, where are the opponents?
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#29 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 24 Sep 2010 14:15

lol,those last two reply almost make me spill cofee outta my nose,how cliché of me :lol:
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Mental Age & The Law

#30 Post by Hansi Smurf » 24 Sep 2010 17:58

Congress, Church, and Psychiatry, all agree, that only chattle would say that marijuana is illegal in the first place! Didactially, psychiatry agreed that individuals whom establish their own boundries, kill at will, and mate with whom they please, whenever they please, are superior to those whom follow and abide by Congress, Church, and Psychiatry, in the first place! All of the aforementioned institutions, will agree, that unlike, me, that they are Pretending Authority upon their own God.

However, the price of weed on the street is agreeably 1000% over it's actual cost! A ten pound bag of flour, no less work than that of a ten-pound bag of weed, costs only 5 bucks, compared to the many thousands that it'll cost yah'll, for the same amount o' the Killer Weed!

Yah, all it took was for me to get my head correct, and start buying healthy staples at the store! This put into context the Grade 9 Cop-comes-to-class-to-discuss-the-high-price-of-weed day, 'til I hadda agree with myself: illegal weed, just ain't for me! Think I'll just grow it meself, and certainly kill criminal justice, right unto it's feeble, unemotional, death! :mrgreen:

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#31 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 24 Sep 2010 19:49

For example,i've heard politicians say "once the kids get pot,then they'll want cocaine,then heroine,then meth,crack,etc"...
True, and masturbation can lead to rape too. :roll:

Seriously, it's a post hoc ergo propter hoc because there are more factors that determine drug addiction. And even if it was true, it's denying the fact that weed is just as accessible as hard drugs anyway. Legalising one will have no impact on the use of the other. In fact, as I pointed out earlier, legalization is likely to actually lower the use.

And there's the fact that I also believe that harddrugs should be legal too.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#32 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 24 Sep 2010 20:27

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:True, and masturbation can lead to rape too. :roll:
exactly my point
bad thing is,most idiots fall for this shit they see on TV and start judging others around them.
furthermore,i agree with the rest of your post too.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#33 Post by Belgarion » 25 Sep 2010 13:11

Masturbation leads to insanity, not to rape. And you get bald.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#34 Post by Andreas » 25 Sep 2010 15:45

Belgarion wrote:Masturbation leads to insanity, not to rape. And you get bald.
You mean deaf?
Desert_Storm wrote:What brings us back to why alcohol is allowed and marijuana isn't.
Alcohol can be bad for you in for example losing control and such, but not necessarily. Drugs on the other hand, is meant to fuck with you senses.

But I agree with Rider that legalizing that stuff is a good idea. But why would anyone take drugs? It's not a long-term solution for your problems or something.

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#35 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 25 Sep 2010 16:05

Alcohol can be bad for you in for example losing control and such, but not necessarily. Drugs on the other hand, is meant to fuck with you senses.
Wrong on both counts. Excessive alcohol-use can cost you your friends, your job and your house. Not nessecarily so, but it shouldn't be underestimated nor trivialised within the context of the discussion.

And it's perfectly possible to use drugs and stay cool about it. Cocaine, speed and xtc can perfectly be used recreatively on a weekly basis, for example when you go out. Surely it'll get back to you the day afterwards, but that's not the point. The point is that it's all about moderation.

As stated before I'm not pro-drugs myself, but you have to be realistic about it, which also means not over-exaggerating. Not everybody who takes a sniff of cocaine immediately becomes a smelly sickophant.
But I agree with Rider that legalizing that stuff is a good idea. But why would anyone take drugs? It's not a long-term solution for your problems or something.
Neither is marriage, but they haven't banned that either.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#36 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 25 Sep 2010 17:33

Andreas wrote:Alcohol can be bad for you in for example losing control and such, but not necessarily.
There are several diseases caused by alcohol,that's a fact.
☢ ☢ ☢ all hail the deathweed ☢ ☢ ☢

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#37 Post by Catanduva » 25 Sep 2010 17:44

If we consider only the effects on public health, it is not recommended.

We already have one drug, alcohol, one more drug will increase health problems. Marijuana damage is different from alcohol damage, we can't compare intensity between two things so different. But the number of problems will increase. Someone who doesn't want to drink this weekend, will have the marijuana option. Some people that would never get in contact with marijuana if it was prohibited, now will. The only prediction we can do is that the number of problemas will increase.

There will be more cases of panic disorders and psychosis, which come with long term use; and that's important to notice. People underestimate the long term effects, they don't associate the disease they have with drug use, they say "no, I've never had a bad trip", as if it was necessary to have a bad trip to develop some paranoid symptons in daily life.
Comparing with alcohol, someone has to drink great amounts of alcohol for many years before develop cirrhosis. Psychiatric diseases are more unpredictable than that, small doses can cause permanent problems, wich will not appear suddenly, but at the end will ruin someone's life.

Most users have a good relationship with the drug, so it's not a first step to other drugs, as said. But we don't know what will happen when marijuana reach other society islands... what will be their relationship with marijuana... who can say for sure they won't use it as a door to other drugs, a different marijuana culture can rise...

About overdose, I have already tried a kind of space-ice cream, and the effetcs were much stronger than I had when smoked, with all kinds of allucination, like LSD. What if youngers, children, discover that?

About politics, I can't imagine the effetcs.
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The Ethnic-Cleansing Of This Mass

#38 Post by Hansi Smurf » 25 Sep 2010 18:46

Every person writing here, save me, is PRETENDING AUTHORITY! :mrgreen:

All drugs are already legal for the SELF-RULED! (what, you haven't reached the Mental Age of Consent, yet, other Writers? If you are less than 6"2" tall, I bet that you never will, either!)

Instead of gibba-ing, on and on, express the honest Zoolgical nature of your own outward appearances, and whether you are a killer in nature, or not, and too, express the nature of your verbal ejaculations and mechanical robot physical manuvers aboard Spaceship Earth, as to whom governs those bits of you already today, and especially towards telling us if you are a brain-controlled non-individual, and thus whether your ejaculations are a biological-individual robot, or whether your ejaculations are the product of some caste-body manufacturing tele-empathic seeming communicable God or other (parents and churchmen and gangsters included).

Only Western Individuals have reached the Mental Age of Consent: people whom keep saying drugs are illegal will admit under oath, that they have not reached the Mental Age of Consent, and will be stripped of properties, mates, et al. :|

And yes, I am bald on top, and I do masturbate quite frequently. Too, I have been a chronic weed smoker since 1993, and am perfectly fit and trim: FUCK YOU! :mrgreen: Admit it, dolts, masturbators have SEX DRIVE, so quit liking tha women if ya don't like ta masturbate, FAGS! 8)

Police and legislative-assembly types, under my stature, are gibbas, pure and simple!
Thanks America Psychoanalysis, thanks, Binet-Simon IQ scoring! I'm glad that I am no longer a every-one-is-equal-to-me, dolt! :mrgreen:

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#39 Post by Orodaran » 25 Sep 2010 18:50

After Hansi Smurf's post, I decided I'm against legalizing marijuana.
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#40 Post by Led Guardian » 25 Sep 2010 20:39

Andreas wrote:
Belgarion wrote:Masturbation leads to insanity, not to rape. And you get bald.
You mean deaf?
No, I'm sure it's blind.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#41 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 25 Sep 2010 20:52

Catanduva wrote:If we consider only the effects on public health, it is not recommended.

We already have one drug, alcohol, one more drug will increase health problems. Marijuana damage is different from alcohol damage, we can't compare intensity between two things so different. But the number of problems will increase. Someone who doesn't want to drink this weekend, will have the marijuana option. Some people that would never get in contact with marijuana if it was prohibited, now will. The only prediction we can do is that the number of problemas will increase.

There will be more cases of panic disorders and psychosis, which come with long term use; and that's important to notice. People underestimate the long term effects, they don't associate the disease they have with drug use, they say "no, I've never had a bad trip", as if it was necessary to have a bad trip to develop some paranoid symptons in daily life.
Comparing with alcohol, someone has to drink great amounts of alcohol for many years before develop cirrhosis. Psychiatric diseases are more unpredictable than that, small doses can cause permanent problems, wich will not appear suddenly, but at the end will ruin someone's life.


Most users have a good relationship with the drug, so it's not a first step to other drugs, as said. But we don't know what will happen when marijuana reach other society islands... what will be their relationship with marijuana... who can say for sure they won't use it as a door to other drugs, a different marijuana culture can rise...

About overdose, I have already tried a kind of space-ice cream, and the effetcs were much stronger than I had when smoked, with all kinds of allucination, like LSD. What if youngers, children, discover that?

About politics, I can't imagine the effetcs.
WOW.... You act as if marijuana isn't already readily available to EVERYONE! What if younger's or children discover booze? Cigarettes?? Fast food?? Those 3 things are bad for you as well and cause serious health problems including death. Did you read any of the other posts? Any articles posted? Websites posted?? Scientific studies posted?? The study's of the long term use of marijuana go back to the 1930s. If you have VIABLE proof that marijuana causes metal illness post it. Until then you are spouting off the same propaganda bullshit the government is. The political effects of Marijuana will be MORE MONEY!! Something new to tax? Lots of people want it?? MONEY!! HURRAY!!! Money is the driving force for everything political. Wait til November when California legalizes it completely. Its gonna fucking blow up!


Myth: Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness. Among adolescents, even occasional marijuana use may cause psychological damage. During intoxication, marijuana users become irrational and often behave erratically.

Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

*
Iverson, Leslie. “Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis.” Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72.

*

Weiser and Noy. “Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia.” Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85.
*
"Cannabis use will impair but not damage mental health." London Telegraph. 23 January 2006.

*
Andreasson, S. et al. “Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts,” The Lancet 2 (1987): 1483-86.

*
Degenhardt, Louisa, Wayne Hall and Michael Lynskey. “Testing hypotheses about the relationship between cannabis use and psychosis,” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 71 (2003): 42-4.

*
Weil, A. “Adverse Reactions to Marijuana: Classification and Suggested Treatment.” New England Journal of Medicine 282 (1970): 997-1000.

EDIT: FYI those 6 things posted above are medical/scientific/psychiatric studies done to PROVE (with science) that marijuana doesn't cause permanent mental illness. I just want you to realize what you are reading. If you are reading.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#42 Post by Desert_Storm » 26 Sep 2010 19:14

andreas wrote:
Desert_Storm wrote:What brings us back to why alcohol is allowed and marijuana isn't.
Alcohol can be bad for you in for example losing control and such, but not necessarily. Drugs on the other hand, is meant to fuck with you senses.
But I agree with Rider that legalizing that stuff is a good idea. But why would anyone take drugs? It's not a long-term solution for your problems or something.
I have some problems in understanding your classification. On what basis do you consider dope a drug rather than booze? It might be something new for you, but alcohol is actually a drug, and so is nicotine, caffeine or aspirin, just to name a few examples. But let's stay with alcohol, because you can compare it quite well to mj. You have the physical diseases caused by both when a long-term user, mainly on the lungs with mj and mainly on the liver with alcohol. You have the overdose reactions to both of them that can include sickness, vomiting, losing inhibitions, losing control over your body (say, walking or talking), losing control over your mind and your thoughts, and so on. IMHO, things you don't really want to experience no matter what cause. You have an additional risk of a psychotic episode with weed, OK. It happens very rarely though, and mostly isn't permanent. Also, you have the risk of a delirium with booze, per definition involving hallucinations and delusions, so that's basically the same freaky stuff, or in your words, the thing that "fuck[s] with your senses".
You have the long time user who develop some psychological dependency/addiction, who loses first motivation, and in long term maybe his partner, friends, job, money and sits at home all day and gets wasted, or worries about the lack of the drug and how/when/where to get it. Talking about both substances here, mind you. The maybe biggest difference here is that the alcoholic develops a physical dependency on his drug too, which doesn't happen with mj, or at least that was the scientific opinion when I started reading about marijuana some years ago.
Than you have the successful business man in his mid-forty's who enjoys the daily glass of wine with his wife - and the same couple who shares a joint instead. Here, nobody has the intention to get drunk or high or whatever, just to relax a little.
That's about the possibilities you have with people who do alcohol, or mj for that matter. of course between the stereotypes I described here you have all kinds of shades in between, since like with most things in life, you rarely have just black and white. Yes, there is some pretty ugly stuff that can happen when you use your drug too often or in too big doses, so maybe the best thing is to stay away from that stuff altogether. Not what I would do, but I can understand the people with that opinion very well. What's hard for me to understand is the people who wouldn't touch a joint for those reasons, but don't mind to have the occasional drink or two, and sometimes a little more on the special occasions. Fact is, all the gloomy perspectives above happen hundreds of times more often to boozers than to potheads, because alcohol is very wide spread and socially accepted. The percentage of people who can use alcohol risk-free is actually quite small, say many of today's psychiatrists. Most people tend to do it too often, or too much. But since it's socially accepted, no one cares. Every family has the little strange uncle who's known to drink too frequently, and at every company dinner you have the one or the other who "had one drink too many". But that's accepted, that's normal. "Drug Users" aren't.
Now looking at all the bad stuff that can result from doing drugs (of course including alcohol), you could ask why I'm in favour of legalising one more. My answer would be, the freedom of choice between two substances with similar pleasures and similar risks. Which one of them now really is more risky or dangerous depends on the person doing it, I would say (like other potential addictive stuff that isn't equally dangerous to everybody, in my case for example gambling, I could not imagine why somebody could get addicted to that). But if I had to label one more dangerous, it would probably be alcohol.

I'm looking forward to an answer!
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But What Is Thy Testimony, Orodaran?

#43 Post by Hansi Smurf » 26 Sep 2010 20:09

Or should we say, Pretend Authority, huh, Oro?
The thoughts in our skulls, are not testimony, voices such as Oro's, are, "scolds"!

Me? I luv weed, and I today and forever, I love to kill Pretend Authorities!

Do you REALLY exist, Orodaran? That is a serious question, that your brain has bio-feedbacked, "No!", towards!

If you will not respond, then by GOD, I am then allowed by the Traditonal Bible-Swearing In Courts, for to provide you your very own Testimony, and "Le Severance Du Poinarde", will then end your "Be Fucked With", "Be Killed", and "Pay Me", brain-pathologies! :mrgreen:

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#44 Post by Lilyael » 26 Sep 2010 21:18

I don't smoke marijuana, so don't give a shit if it's legal or not, I'm more concerned about mushrooms:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4691899.stm

The last bit is important. Fly agaric is a toxic variety, intake needs to be very carefully measured lest you spend a week puking, with a migraine, also its effects include that of the 'berserker' - an unreasonable level of paranoia, and violence and aggression. I know, I've done it. Liberty cap, on the other hand, is a very enjoyable experience, and they ban that and leave the fly agaric??!
There is also panther cap, similar to fly agaric. I find it odd that I'll get done for supplying harmless Liberty Cap, yet selling panther cap is perfectly legal?! Panther cap could, depending on the individual and the level of consumption, kill you! I suppose the government would argue the mushroom's rarity as a reason it's not been criminalised, but only if you don't know where to look. The point is, drugs law is not consistant. Are the government ignorant pigs who only ban what they know about? Or is it a question of money? A consistant drugs law would cost in the region of millions in research into effect, availability, etc....then there's the education you'd have to offer people, other than 'don't do it, unless you want jail time'.
But, since I use mushrooms for shamanic purposes, could I get away with citing religious prejudice when the men in blue coats come for me? Shortly before the men in white coats pay me a visit..... in my padded cell.... :mrgreen:
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#45 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 26 Sep 2010 22:14

Lilyael wrote:I don't smoke marijuana, so don't give a shit if it's legal or not, I'm more concerned about mushrooms:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4691899.stm

The last bit is important. Fly agaric is a toxic variety, intake needs to be very carefully measured lest you spend a week puking, with a migraine, also its effects include that of the 'berserker' - an unreasonable level of paranoia, and violence and aggression. I know, I've done it. Liberty cap, on the other hand, is a very enjoyable experience, and they ban that and leave the fly agaric??!
There is also panther cap, similar to fly agaric. I find it odd that I'll get done for supplying harmless Liberty Cap, yet selling panther cap is perfectly legal?! Panther cap could, depending on the individual and the level of consumption, kill you! I suppose the government would argue the mushroom's rarity as a reason it's not been criminalized, but only if you don't know where to look. The point is, drugs law is not consistant. Are the government ignorant pigs who only ban what they know about? Or is it a question of money? A consistent drugs law would cost in the region of millions in research into effect, availability, etc....then there's the education you'd have to offer people, other than 'don't do it, unless you want jail time'.
But, since I use mushrooms for shamanic purposes, could I get away with citing religious prejudice when the men in blue coats come for me? Shortly before the men in white coats pay me a visit..... in my padded cell.... :mrgreen:
Holy shit I dont think I know you but I like you!! I wouldn't call myself a shaman, I'm more of a magician, occult majicks and all that. But I have mushroom spores at home I'm going to grow to go on a shamanistic quest to find my spirit guide! Have you read Terrance Mckenna's theory on mushrooms not evolving on earth but actually coming to earth through space travel? If you haven't its fucking amazing!! He references the stropharia cubensis mushroom. It sounds crazy until you read it.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#46 Post by Led Guardian » 26 Sep 2010 22:22

Are you sure that book's not written by L. Ron Hubbard? :roll:
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#47 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 26 Sep 2010 22:25

Im not gonna get into it here. If you wanna read it look it up. Its really interesting and he makes valid scientific points to back up his theories.
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#48 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 26 Sep 2010 22:28

He also has some pretty cool theories about 2012 as well. Go to youtube and search for Terrance Mckenna 2012 and you will find them easy.
wade-newb wrote:It was just me, Blind Guardian, and a whole lotta awkward D:

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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#49 Post by Led Guardian » 26 Sep 2010 22:46

I'm disinclined to trust a source that segues into its next segment with the phrase "If you think crop circles are fake..."

And I'm not sure that the American Revolution constitutes a dip in the fortunes of humanity...
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Re: The legilization of marijuana

#50 Post by Baby_Kürsch » 26 Sep 2010 22:54

Never said you had to trust him or believe him. I just think its interesting. Like the theory that the ancient Sumerians where visited by aliens.
wade-newb wrote:It was just me, Blind Guardian, and a whole lotta awkward D:

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