BTRM is probably their best

All talk about Blind Guardian, including discussion about tour dates, etc.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
bestpike
Posts: 1008
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 09:23

BTRM is probably their best

#1 Post by bestpike » 27 Feb 2015 20:16

I've been listening to this thing since release and I still can't believe my ears. This band, this ageing band, with such gem past offerings, on a somewhat downward decline for the last 13 years, manages to release this, THIS. I can't believe that after being a fan of 14 years, in my old age, I was even able to be so intensely stimulated by the new tricks of this old dog. This album showed me the impossible, which is amazing and RARE. Let this album remain in history.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

User avatar
Dragonfly
Posts: 464
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 17:47
Location: Russia

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#2 Post by Dragonfly » 27 Feb 2015 20:47

This is always a good thing when there are fans who consider a band's latest record to be their very best, it shows that the group is far from really getting old and is still capable of composing outstanding music.
Nobody will ever let you know
When you ask the reasons why,
They just tell you that you're on your own,
Fill your head all full of lies

Traveller in Time
Posts: 1059
Joined: 02 Sep 2002 19:43

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#3 Post by Traveller in Time » 27 Feb 2015 21:22

After listening several weeks, i have the same opinion.
It feels like BG is grown up and every album since then was needed to do this one. Especially the many connections music and melodywise to the old albums, makes them just a path and BTRM was the finishing line.

Like Hansi once said: Time to start making real music
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#4 Post by OmegaSlayer » 27 Feb 2015 22:17

I don't agree with the premise.
I don't think BG were "on a somewhat downward decline for the last 13 years".
I totally refuse it.
I think both ATITM and ATEOT have both averagely better songs than BTRM.
The very "Carry The Blessed Home" imho is better than 30% of the songs of BTRM.
BTRM is the richest package BG ever delivered, yes, the best experience for the ears, yes.
Still I think it's an insane amount of meat but it lacks some refinement here and there.
Refinements that was to be found in spades in other albums.

Led Guardian
Posts: 2440
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#5 Post by Led Guardian » 27 Feb 2015 23:32

I don't agree, but I love when I see that there are people that feel this way. I don't think they've been on the decline though. For me, they're kind of in a quality plateau. Which is fine, since it's a high plateau. But I don't think they're going to reach the pinnacle of NIME and ANATO again for me, NIME being their best. ANATO was just slightly below it, then ATITM, while good, maybe reaches something around IFTOS for me. Above or below depends on my mood. But I thought ATEOT was better than ATITM, so that stops any declining trend for me. I still don't know where I place BTRM. It's an odd album for me. It's still very good though, which you can't say about most any band that's been releasing material for 25 years, so I'm not too worried. :mrgreen:
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

vlssstv
Posts: 19
Joined: 25 Aug 2013 20:38

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#6 Post by vlssstv » 28 Feb 2015 03:06

I do think this album is ambitious and grandiose in the ways that inspire praise even from the naysayers. the last decade has been a very winding road indeed MoaTTC was the album closest to BtRM but ATitM and especially ANatO were great prog metal albums but moved in musical directions unfamiliar to what NiME or IFtOS or SFB set as the standards for BG. BtRM seems to help tie together all the styles while introducing new elements in such a way that it doesn't hurt the true fan. this album is one for the ages and whatever accolades they receive are well deserved. :twisted:

priderock
Posts: 310
Joined: 17 Jan 2015 12:45

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#7 Post by priderock » 28 Feb 2015 07:22

I disagree about that the band was suffering from anything in the last 13 years, but I agree that this album may be the best! I mean that it's really hard to be said something like this, cause their albums are different and they just wear different feelings.., but if we are searching the most bombastic, complex and difficult moments - the most closest to art pieces - than I have to agree that BTRM is the album. So, it just depends to what you're searching in their music. Anyway, as a fan that likes and searches the epic and theatrical part in BG it's easy to agree with you. As for the quote "Time to make some real music" - I agree that they really reached it :)

P.S.BTW, It's unbelievable what you just wrote, cause I remember that during the summer you was a
big pessimist about what the guys will release . But I'm happy you was wrong :wink:

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#8 Post by OmegaSlayer » 28 Feb 2015 12:40

I don't agree on the "Time to make blahblahblah" :lol:
They always made MUSIC (because the bones of BG songs are always the same) and I think they're FAR AWAY from giving their best.
So far on those bones they put sometimes cow meat, sometimes chocolate, sometimes fish meat, but they never mixed all the ingredients they have available together.

priderock
Posts: 310
Joined: 17 Jan 2015 12:45

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#9 Post by priderock » 28 Feb 2015 12:54

OmegaSlayer wrote:I don't agree on the "Time to make blahblahblah" :lol:
They always made MUSIC (because the bones of BG songs are always the same) and I think they're FAR AWAY from giving their best.
So far on those bones they put sometimes cow meat, sometimes chocolate, sometimes fish meat, but they never mixed all the ingredients they have available together.

I agree that you're right about that they've always made real music !!!
As for the "Far away from giving their best" - I hope the guys think the same as you! If that's so, then we can expect a great more 25-30 years for the music history :D

Traveller in Time
Posts: 1059
Joined: 02 Sep 2002 19:43

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#10 Post by Traveller in Time » 28 Feb 2015 13:43

You guys are taking it too serious :D

Of course they always made real music, this sentence Hansi only wrote down in a booklet (don't know if it was in the TGTSAT or MOATTC) with a blinking eye.
I just brought it back, because the new album feels (for me) like they reached their level or more precise the music they were always speaking about. And i can hardly imagine how they can top that. But well they always surpised me. Let the journey continue.
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

priderock
Posts: 310
Joined: 17 Jan 2015 12:45

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#11 Post by priderock » 28 Feb 2015 13:55

Traveller in Time wrote:You guys are taking it too serious :D

Of course they always made real music, this sentence Hansi only wrote down in a booklet (don't know if it was in the TGTSAT or MOATTC) with a blinking eye.
I just brought it back, because the new album feels (for me) like they reached their level or more precise the music they were always speaking about. And i can hardly imagine how they can top that. But well they always surpised me. Let the journey continue.
It's from MOATTC, I remember the first time I read it!!! I also thought that they already reached their top, and when I read it, I was like - WOW! SERIOUSLY!!! What can we expect then :) Anyway, I like this sentence :) As for topping this, I agree it's hard to be imagined, but I still think the orchestral album will top everything and without any compromises! Yeah, I'm very optimistic :mrgreen:

Traveller in Time
Posts: 1059
Joined: 02 Sep 2002 19:43

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#12 Post by Traveller in Time » 28 Feb 2015 15:44

priderock wrote: It's from MOATTC, I remember the first time I read it!!! I also thought that they already reached their top, and when I read it, I was like - WOW! SERIOUSLY!!! What can we expect then :) Anyway, I like this sentence :) As for topping this, I agree it's hard to be imagined, but I still think the orchestral album will top everything and without any compromises! Yeah, I'm very optimistic :mrgreen:

+1 :D
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

priderock
Posts: 310
Joined: 17 Jan 2015 12:45

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#13 Post by priderock » 28 Feb 2015 16:10

Traveller in Time wrote:
priderock wrote: It's from MOATTC, I remember the first time I read it!!! I also thought that they already reached their top, and when I read it, I was like - WOW! SERIOUSLY!!! What can we expect then :) Anyway, I like this sentence :) As for topping this, I agree it's hard to be imagined, but I still think the orchestral album will top everything and without any compromises! Yeah, I'm very optimistic :mrgreen:

+1 :D
Great!!! So, maybe we have 10-15 years till we'll know that :lol: :D :lol: And I'm positive again :mrgreen:

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#14 Post by OmegaSlayer » 01 Mar 2015 08:27

I'm positive towards the symphonic album, I know I won't be disappointed by the overall quality, still I don't think it will be their best yet.
What I know is that I don't give BG more than 2 regular albums before releasing their masterpiece.
If they don't pull it out by the next 2 albums I doubt they will.
The more they age the more they slow down, and it's normal but speed is one of BG trademarks, like it or not.
As I said in other threads BG "evolve" but they actually change skin, sometimes leaving pieces behind, and for me their masterpiece will be only when they finally mix ALL they're able to do without leaving anything behind, making fast songs being one of those ingredients.

User avatar
Angus
Posts: 119
Joined: 10 Dec 2010 21:17

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#15 Post by Angus » 04 Mar 2015 03:19

bestpike wrote:I've been listening to this thing since release and I still can't believe my ears. This band, this ageing band, with such gem past offerings, on a somewhat downward decline for the last 13 years, manages to release this, THIS. I can't believe that after being a fan of 14 years, in my old age, I was even able to be so intensely stimulated by the new tricks of this old dog. This album showed me the impossible, which is amazing and RARE. Let this album remain in history.
Did the downward decline happen WITH ANatO or AFTER ANatO?

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#16 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Mar 2015 09:06

Angus wrote:
Did the downward decline happen WITH ANatO or AFTER ANatO?
After they wrote Brian actually :mrgreen:

User avatar
bestpike
Posts: 1008
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 09:23

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#17 Post by bestpike » 04 Mar 2015 10:20

Angus wrote:
bestpike wrote:I've been listening to this thing since release and I still can't believe my ears. This band, this ageing band, with such gem past offerings, on a somewhat downward decline for the last 13 years, manages to release this, THIS. I can't believe that after being a fan of 14 years, in my old age, I was even able to be so intensely stimulated by the new tricks of this old dog. This album showed me the impossible, which is amazing and RARE. Let this album remain in history.
Did the downward decline happen WITH ANatO or AFTER ANatO?
ANATO is for me maybe their best effort, excluding BTRM, if the criterion is replayability. Some songs in there took me years to even begin understand. By decline I meant Atitm and Ateot. These two albums are pretty pretty good, even for BG standards. But take a look at them: both have filler songs in there, along with masterpieces. If each album was a statement, to me it would look like this:

ANATO: We poured our soul in here, masterfully using content that other bands would make not one but five albums with. After this album we don't know what the hell we're doing, this concept cannot be brought any farther.
ATITM: We toned it down, we had some new ideas, many of them didn't work out. But at least we tried. A few masterpiece songs, along with fillers.
ATEOT: We're running out of ideas. Let's borrow the old and mix it with the new. Some really good songs, some so-so. Nothing really shines with blinding light.
BTRM: No we're not. Fooled ya! Guess who's back in town, looking 20 years younger.


These comebacks just don't happen every day in bands. Along with age comes staleness or mediocrity, pretty predictably. I was pretty amazed by that comeback, I'm not exactly saying that BTRM is objectively their best album (which I don't know and I don't think has any usefulness either, I listen to all the albums regardless), but it is when considering that it exceeded (my) low expectations by miles. The really disappointing single made the return even more dramatic. They used the worst song as the single. Genius.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

Led Guardian
Posts: 2440
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#18 Post by Led Guardian » 04 Mar 2015 11:23

bestpike wrote:These comebacks just don't happen every day in bands. Along with age comes staleness or mediocrity, pretty predictably. I was pretty amazed by that comeback, I'm not exactly saying that BTRM is objectively their best album (which I don't know and I don't think has any usefulness either, I listen to all the albums regardless), but it is when considering that it exceeded (my) low expectations by miles. The really disappointing single made the return even more dramatic. They used the worst song as the single. Genius.
Masters of adjusting expectations to their benefit.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

User avatar
blind-man
Posts: 270
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 01:45
Location: Lisbon

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#19 Post by blind-man » 04 Mar 2015 12:23

bestpike wrote: ATITM: We toned it down, we had some new ideas, many of them didn't work out. But at least we tried. A few masterpiece songs, along with fillers.
Allow me to vehemently disagree. Blind Guardian writes no "filler" songs. Sure, some of us like some songs more than others. I myself think that Prophecies and Distant Memories are just OK songs. But it's not like they go "hey, we need two more songs to fill this record. Lets just throw some crap together and call it a day."
bestpike wrote: ATEOT: We're running out of ideas. Let's borrow the old and mix it with the new. Some really good songs, some so-so. Nothing really shines with blinding light.
Uhm, Wheel of Time!? :)
Probably the greatest piece of music they've ever written. Also, Sacred Worlds, Tanelorn, Ride Into Obsession and A Voice in the Dark are all songs that, in my opinion, really shine.
Orodaran wrote:I don't need to look metal in my looks because I am metal in my heart 8)

User avatar
bestpike
Posts: 1008
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 09:23

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#20 Post by bestpike » 04 Mar 2015 13:18

blind-man wrote:
bestpike wrote: ATITM: We toned it down, we had some new ideas, many of them didn't work out. But at least we tried. A few masterpiece songs, along with fillers.
Allow me to vehemently disagree. Blind Guardian writes no "filler" songs. Sure, some of us like some songs more than others. I myself think that Prophecies and Distant Memories are just OK songs. But it's not like they go "hey, we need two more songs to fill this record. Lets just throw some crap together and call it a day."
bestpike wrote: ATEOT: We're running out of ideas. Let's borrow the old and mix it with the new. Some really good songs, some so-so. Nothing really shines with blinding light.
Uhm, Wheel of Time!? :)
Probably the greatest piece of music they've ever written. Also, Sacred Worlds, Tanelorn, Ride Into Obsession and A Voice in the Dark are all songs that, in my opinion, really shine.
I actually agree with what you're saying, no conflict here :). By fillers I meant ideas that didn't quite work out (also admitted in interviews later, not that this is a validation but still), I agree BG don't write fillers. All those songs from Ateot are top (actually you chose my most favorites too) :).
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

priderock
Posts: 310
Joined: 17 Jan 2015 12:45

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#21 Post by priderock » 04 Mar 2015 13:32

Road Of No Release, guys...what about Road Of No Release? It's a such a masterpiece :P Such a complexity in just 6:30 minutes :)
As for Wheel Of Time, in my opinion this is still their top song, talking about music!!! I really can talk a loooot about it... Such a period of my life with this song.., probably this song made the biggest shift to me for loving REALLY BG...

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#22 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Mar 2015 16:21

I just read OPINIONS here.
I think that giving the context, BTRM has the biggest number of "fillers" in any BG album, namely The Ninth Wave, Twilight Of The Gods, At The Edge Of Time and Ashes Of Eternity, which makes a whoooooping 40% of "fillers" or better, song under the BG average, imho.
I might sound full of myself, but I think you guys should widen your listenings, because Wheel Of Time is a glorified song, but it is very standard.
The medio-oriental section is truly run of the mill, if you have some bare knowledge of ethnic music.
Yesterday I listened again to Dimmu Borgir's live at Spektre in Oslo in 2011 and...those orchestrations are miles above the ones in BTRM.
Honestly I think that's Mustis (old DB keyboard player) and Gaute Storaas merit compared to the work done by the guy who worked on BTRM orchestral arrangements.
The bones of BG's songs are more solid than DB's ones, still DB's orchestral stuff is far superior.

Then...I don't think ANATO is a pinnacle; while the whole musical concept and growth for the band is brilliant, the only two songs that are masterpieces are Battlefield and And Then There Was Silence, with the latter being one of the highest pinnacle in heavy metal music imho.

So yeah, you guys judge BG career on what is your perception of their career, which might vary a lot.

As I pointed some times, gathering quite some anger, some of you feel entitled to be the true BG fans because you accepted the "new course", the BG 2.0.
ANATO is a landmark album that some of you use to label themselves as being true BG fans.
But it's something that has a meaning for fans more than for BG career.

Road Of No Release is a great song, honest, artistic, made with heart more than brain farts and faps.
Better than 50% of BTRM songs.
Same for Carry The Blessed Home.
But that's my opinion.

User avatar
blind-man
Posts: 270
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 01:45
Location: Lisbon

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#23 Post by blind-man » 04 Mar 2015 18:06

OmegaSlayer wrote:I just read OPINIONS here.
I think that giving the context, BTRM has the biggest number of "fillers" in any BG album, namely The Ninth Wave, Twilight Of The Gods, At The Edge Of Time and Ashes Of Eternity, which makes a whoooooping 40% of "fillers" or better, song under the BG average, imho.
I might sound full of myself, but I think you guys should widen your listenings, because Wheel Of Time is a glorified song, but it is very standard.
The medio-oriental section is truly run of the mill, if you have some bare knowledge of ethnic music.
Yesterday I listened again to Dimmu Borgir's live at Spektre in Oslo in 2011 and...those orchestrations are miles above the ones in BTRM.
Honestly I think that's Mustis (old DB keyboard player) and Gaute Storaas merit compared to the work done by the guy who worked on BTRM orchestral arrangements.
The bones of BG's songs are more solid than DB's ones, still DB's orchestral stuff is far superior.

Then...I don't think ANATO is a pinnacle; while the whole musical concept and growth for the band is brilliant, the only two songs that are masterpieces are Battlefield and And Then There Was Silence, with the latter being one of the highest pinnacle in heavy metal music imho.

So yeah, you guys judge BG career on what is your perception of their career, which might vary a lot.

As I pointed some times, gathering quite some anger, some of you feel entitled to be the true BG fans because you accepted the "new course", the BG 2.0.
ANATO is a landmark album that some of you use to label themselves as being true BG fans.
But it's something that has a meaning for fans more than for BG career.

Road Of No Release is a great song, honest, artistic, made with heart more than brain farts and faps.
Better than 50% of BTRM songs.
Same for Carry The Blessed Home.
But that's my opinion.
No disrespect intended, but sometimes it's really hard to get the point you're trying to get across with these rants.
Orodaran wrote:I don't need to look metal in my looks because I am metal in my heart 8)

priderock
Posts: 310
Joined: 17 Jan 2015 12:45

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#24 Post by priderock » 04 Mar 2015 19:10

blind-man wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:I just read OPINIONS here.
I think that giving the context, BTRM has the biggest number of "fillers" in any BG album, namely The Ninth Wave, Twilight Of The Gods, At The Edge Of Time and Ashes Of Eternity, which makes a whoooooping 40% of "fillers" or better, song under the BG average, imho.
I might sound full of myself, but I think you guys should widen your listenings, because Wheel Of Time is a glorified song, but it is very standard.
The medio-oriental section is truly run of the mill, if you have some bare knowledge of ethnic music.
Yesterday I listened again to Dimmu Borgir's live at Spektre in Oslo in 2011 and...those orchestrations are miles above the ones in BTRM.
Honestly I think that's Mustis (old DB keyboard player) and Gaute Storaas merit compared to the work done by the guy who worked on BTRM orchestral arrangements.
The bones of BG's songs are more solid than DB's ones, still DB's orchestral stuff is far superior.

Then...I don't think ANATO is a pinnacle; while the whole musical concept and growth for the band is brilliant, the only two songs that are masterpieces are Battlefield and And Then There Was Silence, with the latter being one of the highest pinnacle in heavy metal music imho.

So yeah, you guys judge BG career on what is your perception of their career, which might vary a lot.

As I pointed some times, gathering quite some anger, some of you feel entitled to be the true BG fans because you accepted the "new course", the BG 2.0.
ANATO is a landmark album that some of you use to label themselves as being true BG fans.
But it's something that has a meaning for fans more than for BG career.

Road Of No Release is a great song, honest, artistic, made with heart more than brain farts and faps.
Better than 50% of BTRM songs.
Same for Carry The Blessed Home.
But that's my opinion.
No disrespect intended, but sometimes it's really hard to get the point you're trying to get across with these rants.
Me too, but when I read his comments I just prepare myself for the worst (the most critic point of view) :mrgreen:
As for ANATO, I also considere it as the pinnacle of their career for now. As for The Ninth Wave, At The Edge Of Time and Twilight Of The Gods, I think that these songs are way more than gust great songs - they're also really artistic to me(ATEOT is even one of the best things I have ever heard in music)
Also, I finally started liking and Ashes Of Eternety :)

User avatar
JazzJackrabbit
Posts: 124
Joined: 25 Nov 2014 18:21
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#25 Post by JazzJackrabbit » 04 Mar 2015 20:18

I'm more annoyed
by this
posting style
!

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#26 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Mar 2015 22:31

priderock wrote:
Me too, but when I read his comments I just prepare myself for the worst (the most critic point of view) :mrgreen:
As for ANATO, I also considere it as the pinnacle of their career for now. As for The Ninth Wave, At The Edge Of Time and Twilight Of The Gods, I think that these songs are way more than gust great songs - they're also really artistic to me(ATEOT is even one of the best things I have ever heard in music)
Also, I finally started liking and Ashes Of Eternety :)
I get you guys I lose myself too when I write walls of rants :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
You just prove my point.
Some BG songs make everyone agree...Battlefield, Mirror Mirror, Bright Eyes for example.
When I listen to those songs, especially at the time they were released, so when they were "fresh", I didn't felt that there was anything out of place.
Every note, every drum hit was the best choice possible.
Best choice possible from where BG came from to be precise.
I mean, when they released Bright Eyes it was perfect for 1995 BG, but later BG proved that they could do better.
But, back to the point, I don't think the songs from BTRM I mentioned are the best effort 2015 BG could do.
That doesn't made them less "artistic", or less good, but they give me a feeling of...lazyness, as in "they're good as they are...let's keep them like this", they miss some minor refinements that I expect from BG 2015 because BG spoiled me.
Now, some people I know think that Mr. Bungle is one of the most genious and artistic band ever, for me it's patching random stuff.
I don't expect BG to patch riffs in a random way.

Led Guardian
Posts: 2440
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#27 Post by Led Guardian » 05 Mar 2015 04:10

OmegaSlayer wrote:I just read OPINIONS here.
I think that giving the context, BTRM has the biggest number of "fillers" in any BG album, namely The Ninth Wave, Twilight Of The Gods, At The Edge Of Time and Ashes Of Eternity, which makes a whoooooping 40% of "fillers" or better, song under the BG average, imho.
It looks like I'm reading opinions too. :wink:
You know I have a similar opinion of one of those songs, but I just can't agree on the others. TOTG and AOE are solid songs, not what I would consider filler. And I know The Ninth Wave doesn't feel whole tons of love around here, but I'd say it's easily one of the best songs on the album. I'd say the chorus is "good" rather than great, but the rest of the song is brilliantly constructed, with some awesomely catchy riffs/verses. And that choir of corpse! :mrgreen:

Point is, there is enough disagreement over what songs are the best on this album that it's kind of ridiculous to claim it's 40% filler. You might get some support on TOTG and AOE, but that is no 40%. Filler is something that's lazily done with no care put into it. You can't use your own feelings about a song and personal taste to determine what is filler. This is Blind Guardian. Whatever we think of each piece of music they've released, there's no way they have released something that they haven't poured themselves into entirely. Fact: a band resting on their laurels does not keep an album in production for 2 years.
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#28 Post by OmegaSlayer » 05 Mar 2015 09:17

Yes, my opinion as I stated at the end of the post. :wink:
If you check I used the "" for the word filler. :roll:
What I meant is that those 4 songs are below the average quality I expect from BG.
Again, not bad songs, but below what BG have proved to be able to deliver.

User avatar
Gandalf de Grijze
Posts: 13919
Joined: 16 Aug 2002 18:01
Location: Dutchielandia
Contact:

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#29 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 05 Mar 2015 22:22

gotta love how BG "filler" still means it is generally better than a lot of other stuff out there. However, I don't think that within the context of the album there is a true filler, considering how this is a concept album, and not a "normal" one. When listening to NiME as an album, the interludes (at least to me) HAVE to be there. This also goes for BtRM, even Doom, which I feel is rather out of place musicalwise, is part of the larger whole. So in that sense there is no filler IMO.

When looking at the album as a mere collection of songs, I could have done without TOTG, AOE and Doom.
Hansi 24-09-2010 wrote:It's always good to be back in the United States Of The Netherlands
Check out my photography at Steemphoto.com

User avatar
Edain
Posts: 601
Joined: 12 Apr 2004 15:34
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#30 Post by Edain » 06 Mar 2015 12:50

Road Of No Release, guys...what about Road Of No Release? It's a such a masterpiece :P Such a complexity in just 6:30 minutes :)
Just came here to emphasize this one. :mrgreen: Road of no Release is the masterpiece on the album. Listen to these completely different crazy parts blending into each other completely smoothely. The crazy-ass solo part. Wonderful. As it has been pointed out before, Wheel of time is impressive and cool, but strip it down and you have fairly simple structures and repetitions. Same goes for Sacred.
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

Rokubota
Posts: 103
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 17:06

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#31 Post by Rokubota » 11 Mar 2015 02:22

At The Edge Of Time filler?

Hell no, filler is something like Valkyries, Tanelorn, Sacred or half of the stuff in ATITM. At the edge of time is in my opinion the best song in this album, it's a song that flows like water and Hansi is amazing in it.

BTRM it's one of their best records for sure.

Led Guardian
Posts: 2440
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#32 Post by Led Guardian » 11 Mar 2015 11:15

Rokubota wrote:At The Edge Of Time filler?

Hell no, filler is something like Valkyries, Tanelorn, Sacred or half of the stuff in ATITM. At the edge of time is in my opinion the best song in this album, it's a song that flows like water and Hansi is amazing in it.

BTRM it's one of their best records for sure.
So you pick a pretty solid song, one of their best fast songs with possibly a top 5 chorus, a new classic, and some nebulous other stuff that is also probably pretty awesome. Are you doing that to intentionally set the bar ridiculously high for ATEOT?
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#33 Post by OmegaSlayer » 11 Mar 2015 11:26

Rokubota wrote: Hell no, filler is something like Valkyries, Tanelorn, Sacred or half of the stuff in ATITM.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Angus
Posts: 119
Joined: 10 Dec 2010 21:17

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#34 Post by Angus » 25 Mar 2015 02:23

I (almost) third that. I don't like Tanelorn that much and I think it's chorus is shit (at least by BG standards), but Valkyries and Sacred Worlds are awesome and ATITM isn't half filler.

Led Guardian
Posts: 2440
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#35 Post by Led Guardian » 25 Mar 2015 03:39

Angus wrote:I (almost) third that. I don't like Tanelorn that much and I think it's chorus is shit (at least by BG standards), but Valkyries and Sacred Worlds are awesome and ATITM isn't half filler.
:o :o :o

Whaaaaaat.

That's one of the best choruses they've ever done. The harmonies sound fantastic!
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

Nahar
Posts: 109
Joined: 17 Aug 2002 16:59
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

Re: BTRM is probably their best

#36 Post by Nahar » 01 Apr 2015 12:20

I tend to agree about BtRM being their best (or somewhere at the top).
One of the things I really like about it is that it sheds new light on the previous albums.
I agree that it makes AtEoT seem weak in a way (even though it's quite awesome), but mainly it seems to explain ATitM, and make it seem better than it felt till now (for me, and probably lots of fans).

The way I see this development:
-NiME was considered by the band a peak melody-wise, and I think it has a very complete feeling about it. The songs seem to have a similar atmosphere.
-ANatO was very experimental and very different. It also featured their most epic song. It was quite severely criticised for being over-produced. It's a very demanding album with long songs and tons of stuff going on, and also can't work so well live...
-ATitM seemed to be taking the criticism a bit hard. On the one hand it simplified things and on the other hand it didn't feature anything to compete with AttwS. The songs are shorter and have more of a "live" feel to them (it also came out after "Live"), being less packed and somehow more raw. I still believe a lot of subtle stuff is happening in these seemingly simple songs. Another major change here is the change of a drummer. The drums on ANatO had a huge presence and part, while in ATitM there's a new drum sound and its part is not as prominent. It also had a more futuristic sci-fi feel.
-AtEoT was a "return to epicness" with the orchestra, and two new long songs, and more fantasy than sci-fi (no sci-fi at all actually). Still there's no song to compete with AttwS structure-wise, but there seems to be no weak track and the production seems tighter but without the complexity of ANatO, so it works well. Fans were quite satisfied with BG getting back to their "proper" track with epicness, while still trying out new stuff (I wouldn't call it experimental, though)...
-BtRM seems to pack all of these (and going further back to IftOS obviously, but perhaps even a bit further) together. I think they went back to some of the raw feeling of ATitM, along with its sci-fi feel, but managed to naturally mix it with epic. Seems to me they are now old(er) and wise and bold, feeling no shame about quoting stuff here and there (hard to avoid, after making so much original music, so why avoid it when it fits in naturally). It feels like the songs are as packed with stuff to find out, just as ANatO, but still simple in essence (Grand Parade compared to AttwS, for example). It has the wholeness that NiME has, being another (complex) concept album, some sense of humor (especially Miracle Machine) and a general lively\playful feel like ANatO. It also features the lessons they learned from working with the orchestra in AtEoT, and I think also some of its production's tightness.

Sorry to be so messy with my summary ^^;

I'd just like to add a little thing that I saw Hansi (or maybe Andre?) write in one of the Q&A they had...
He was asked about leaving the sounds of the musicians moving in the recordings in AtEoT, and said they decided to leave it there (even though they removed it in BtRM), but he also said that leaving such "mistakes" proves they're still Rock'n'Roll.
I think that's really interesting, and that this approach also affected the sound in this album (its rawness, mainly).
"As darkness came it brought along silence.
Yet silence also bears madness.
Silence surrounds me - a deathly silence"...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests