'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

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ragehu
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#51 Post by ragehu » 26 Jan 2015 01:42

On the next album they will release the song "Beyond The Red Mirror"? :)
Just to think of the song "At The Edge Of Time"

blindgfan
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#52 Post by blindgfan » 26 Jan 2015 05:20

ragehu wrote:On the next album they will release the song "Beyond The Red Mirror"? :)
Just to think of the song "At The Edge Of Time"
A Twist In The Myth is also a title they owe us!

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DREAMASTER
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#53 Post by DREAMASTER » 26 Jan 2015 15:51

How can someone say that don't hear any problem with the Drums sound?! Most of the time you can only listen clearly the snare. You can barely hear, if nothing at all, the cymbals and the drumbass, that at times seem like beating in cardboard. Most of the time sounds like a cheap drum machine that's how bad it sounds. BG really needs another mixing and mastering engineer.

I point out this is from a promo CD not a mp3 file.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#54 Post by bard_92 » 26 Jan 2015 16:24

DREAMASTER wrote:How can someone say that don't hear any problem with the Drums sound?! Most of the time you can only listen clearly the snare. You can barely hear, if nothing at all, the cymbals and the drumbass, that at times seem like beating in cardboard. Most of the time sounds like a cheap drum machine that's how bad it sounds. BG really needs another mixing and mastering engineer.

I point out this is from a promo CD not a mp3 file.
As for the drums I really have to say something! Maybe some of you remember(maybe not),but back in the beginning of 2012/right after the release of MOATC/ I was also hating here in the forum about the drum sound that the remixed versions had! And I was really upset, believe me...I really hated that sound(especially compared to IFTOS album)... But back then(maybe 3-4 months later) I just realized the those remixed versions -especially ATTWS- we're just the greatest thing I have ever heard!!! Yes, the drums were not there, or at least the way we remembered them since the original albums, but there was really something more! Instead of all the drums, I think that the quality of the vocal lines were made so much better than absolutely ever...and I really found so much new things in those songs!
And I really love them even more now...What I want to say(of course that's just my opinion) is that BG is just not the band-at least for me- where I expect, or I would like to expect something like crashing drums and so on...To me there's just way more enjoyable things in their music that have to be found and explored... and I would probably place the drums not on first place...I think that's also what the band wants and I really would encourage them doing it!!! To me BG is probably the group that makes the best operatic, choral, epic and all this kind of stuff vocals...and Charlie really makes them sound perfect!!! The same can be said about the orchestras....!!! So, I like Charlie's job, and at the end(even the fact that I hated firstly MOATC drums...) I have to say that I hope they'll continue working with him!!!

The only thing I don't like in his latest works is for sure the ATITM production(hope we'll finally get remixed version...) and also the mistakes on ATEOT(here I want just a remastered one) :mrgreen:

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#55 Post by t.a.j. » 26 Jan 2015 17:41

bestpike wrote: Lots of exaggeration at best, especially the quote "While there are decent songs and good parts on every record since ANATO, there's hasn't been a really good song on any of them." I'll just use a couple of songs. Is Fly and Another Stranger Me not some of the best, most unique, and least derivative songs in BG's discography?
Fly, has nice ideas and is certainly a decent song. Another Stranger Me is one midly catchy hook forced into pretending it was a song.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#56 Post by t.a.j. » 26 Jan 2015 17:43

Traveller in Time wrote: It's a false friend. The Black parade is a song of My Chemical Romance, but i have to admit they really sound like Green Day
I'd apologize for my lack of pop expertise but I really don't care one way or another. But thanks for correcting it anyway.
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They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway.
They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret...


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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#57 Post by priderock » 26 Jan 2015 17:55

So, one week later it seems... :D
Just listened to Grand Parade and The Throne!!! WOW, just so match epicness!!! These 2 songs make me feel on the battlefield each time I listen to them... It's so fun, cause the first time I listened to Grand Parade it was nothing more than a mess with an outstanding ending! Right now, it's a masterpiece with an overwhelming ending... still not as good as At The Edge Of Time(song), but WOW...Grand Parade grow so much to me!!! It's a masterpiece! If it wasn't ATEOT, I was supposed to say it's really the best song on the album! It's just so amazing how bad the first time is while you're listening a BG record for a first time, but then after few more times it's just forever in your head!!! Officially I can say now, that this record is really maybe my favourite one in their career! It's just nothing less than a real masterpiece!!! I love it! No doubt it's their most ambitious thing till now!
I've never liked that much songs on their album as on the new one...and they're not just catchy-they have pretensions to be even the best...Even that I don't prefer their fast songs, I have to say that Holy Grail is just WOW... never expected that much from this song!!!

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#58 Post by drummer88 » 26 Jan 2015 18:24

So, now after I have listened around 15 times through the album here is the first list of my favourites (well not exactly a list, as I put the songs into categories).

My absolute favourites (10/10):
Distant memories
The holy grail
The throne
Sacred mind
Grand Parade

Right now for me these songs are among the best BG has ever written. Distant memories is the most emotional song ever from BG. Since I started listening to the song 2 days ago, I can't get myself away from it. The melodies (especially the Chorus) are gorgeous. The Holy Grail is their best speed metal song since NIME. Without any compromise it holds up the speed from the first to the last second with the most anthemic chorus they have written in years. It definitly will be a new classic for live concerts. The Throne is also one of their best epic songs since NIME. Wonderful vocals (as in the whole album) and a beautiful chorus that stucks in my head since the first listen. Sacred Mind has everything: a catchy chorus, fast aggressive parts and also some epic moments. This is the ultimate way to combine new elements with their old trademarks. I didn't really like Grand Parade in the beginning. For me it felt like stringing together of 100 different parts where none is very special for itself. But the more I listened to it the more I liked it. Especially towards the end it's getting better and better. There is one melodie line in the chorus that I still do not like that much. But here this one second doens't destroy the song for me. Overall the chorus is one of the most epic they have ever written. I also like the reminiscence on the song Nightfall.

Songs that I really like (8-9/10):
Ashes of Eternity
Miracle Machine
Prophecies

These three songs have one thing in common: I didn’t like them at all in the beginning. Ashes of eternity and miracle machine seemed to lack a great chorus and prophecies reminded me a lot of a twist in myth, which is always a bad sign for me. For all three songs my opinions have changed completely. I really love the simple vocals in the choruses of those songs and besides this especially ashes of eternity and prophecies are composed very well.

Songs I do not like that much:
Ninth Wave
At The Edge of Time
Twilight of the Gods

These three songs for me are the most untypical songs for BG on this album. Even though the Ninth Wave starts with the best intro BG ever (I really love those kinds of chantings of big choirs) the chorus destroys the whole song for me. It doesn’t fit at with its happy melodie lines. Furthermore there are a lot of parts that just take all of the dynamics out of the song it just build up seconds ago. Twilight of the Gods is just nothing special for me. The chorus melodie is quite ok, but for BG standards it’s just an “ok” song. Well, the song that’s left is At the edge of time. I don’t know why I don’t like it as much as any others here in the forum. The chorus is really epic and it has some nice moments. I guess for me the problem is, the song constantly flows at one and the same level. The chorus might be epic, but it doesn’t separate enough from the rest of the song. Also the dynamics are quite boring.

glowel
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#59 Post by glowel » 26 Jan 2015 20:41

Before the release of the album, I made a rule for myself, so that I won't judge the album from the first day. Because I made that mistake with ATEOT, on the very first day I decided that the album is not "that good" and discarded it in a month. But last year, when I finally read the Wheel of Time, had to go back to the album and this time totally LOVED it. Now it is amongst my favourite BG albums. I know that my top 3 probably won't ever change, but ATEOT is very close to them. I am to blame for depriving myself from such an album, and one of my all time favourite songs (Curse My Name, both the original version and the demo version).

So, careful this time. Even though BTRD felt disappointing at first, sounded like there are no memorable songs other than Twilight of the Gods, but I continued to hope and listen. After listening to it for a few days, the album has begun to shine, now I believe the album contains many good songs, a few amazing songs and maybe 2 or 3 masterpieces. My favourite song so far is At the Edge of Time but it may change over time.

Finally, just want to share my stupid mistake about this album. Because of my excitement, I used my gamer headphones to listen to the album for the first time. Don't do that. Really. It was so stupid for me to not realize it until the end.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#60 Post by OmegaSlayer » 26 Jan 2015 21:15

bard_92 wrote:
DREAMASTER wrote:
As for the drums I really have to say something! Maybe some of you remember(maybe not),but back in the beginning of 2012/right after the release of MOATC/ I was also hating here in the forum about the drum sound that the remixed versions had! And I was really upset, believe me...I really hated that sound(especially compared to IFTOS album)... But back then(maybe 3-4 months later) I just realized the those remixed versions -especially ATTWS- we're just the greatest thing I have ever heard!!! Yes, the drums were not there, or at least the way we remembered them since the original albums, but there was really something more! Instead of all the drums, I think that the quality of the vocal lines were made so much better than absolutely ever...and I really found so much new things in those songs!
And I really love them even more now...What I want to say(of course that's just my opinion) is that BG is just not the band-at least for me- where I expect, or I would like to expect something like crashing drums and so on...To me there's just way more enjoyable things in their music that have to be found and explored... and I would probably place the drums not on first place...I think that's also what the band wants and I really would encourage them doing it!!! To me BG is probably the group that makes the best operatic, choral, epic and all this kind of stuff vocals...and Charlie really makes them sound perfect!!! The same can be said about the orchestras....!!! So, I like Charlie's job, and at the end(even the fact that I hated firstly MOATC drums...) I have to say that I hope they'll continue working with him!!!

The only thing I don't like in his latest works is for sure the ATITM production(hope we'll finally get remixed version...) and also the mistakes on ATEOT(here I want just a remastered one) :mrgreen:
You definitely have points but if BG do great vocals and so on, why should we give up on having other instruments on par?
That said, you know I'm not a fan of Frederik, but his work is not bad at all, as the sound of the drums is not that bad.
I expect no less than perfection from BG, and sound (especially drums, rhythm guitar and bass guitar) haven't been excellent.
Also Frederik is good, but not the best there is for BG.
I encourage you to go through every Thomen and Frederik fills in BG history and understand what's the difference.

bard_92
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#61 Post by bard_92 » 26 Jan 2015 21:43

OmegaSlayer wrote:
bard_92 wrote:
DREAMASTER wrote:
As for the drums I really have to say something! Maybe some of you remember(maybe not),but back in the beginning of 2012/right after the release of MOATC/ I was also hating here in the forum about the drum sound that the remixed versions had! And I was really upset, believe me...I really hated that sound(especially compared to IFTOS album)... But back then(maybe 3-4 months later) I just realized the those remixed versions -especially ATTWS- we're just the greatest thing I have ever heard!!! Yes, the drums were not there, or at least the way we remembered them since the original albums, but there was really something more! Instead of all the drums, I think that the quality of the vocal lines were made so much better than absolutely ever...and I really found so much new things in those songs!
And I really love them even more now...What I want to say(of course that's just my opinion) is that BG is just not the band-at least for me- where I expect, or I would like to expect something like crashing drums and so on...To me there's just way more enjoyable things in their music that have to be found and explored... and I would probably place the drums not on first place...I think that's also what the band wants and I really would encourage them doing it!!! To me BG is probably the group that makes the best operatic, choral, epic and all this kind of stuff vocals...and Charlie really makes them sound perfect!!! The same can be said about the orchestras....!!! So, I like Charlie's job, and at the end(even the fact that I hated firstly MOATC drums...) I have to say that I hope they'll continue working with him!!!

The only thing I don't like in his latest works is for sure the ATITM production(hope we'll finally get remixed version...) and also the mistakes on ATEOT(here I want just a remastered one) :mrgreen:
You definitely have points but if BG do great vocals and so on, why should we give up on having other instruments on par?
I just prefer the other instruments..mostly the classical arrangements and I hear them perfectly :)

GuardianKnight
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#62 Post by GuardianKnight » 27 Jan 2015 05:24

OmegaSlayer wrote:Also Frederik is good, but not the best there is for BG.
I encourage you to go through every Thomen and Frederik fills in BG history and understand what's the difference.
This is where I take issue with all the Frederik bashing. I don't care if people criticize the guy, his technique, suggestions for improvements, etc... but when someone (not just you) says "not the best there is for BG" my question is, how would you know? As if technique and raw talent are the only factors in what makes a band great? What if they switched to the world's best drummer and suddenly the chemistry is gone, the magic fades away, intangible factors go away... You just don't know and I don't either.

There are only a few people on earth who can decide who is the best drummer for BG and they have made that decision and I fucking love the results. We have one of the best BG albums in years and like it or not, Frederik is a major component of how that came to be. And yet people get on here and fucking nitpick this or not and say what's best for BG... on BG's on forum too.

They don't call up your boss or work and say how much better your place of work would be without you. That's just rude and inhuman.

Sure, professional and fan critique and feedback such as "I'd love to see better fills, better production, etc... because I love BG and this is how I show it" is fair, its the whole point of being a fan. I don't even care if someone says "this drummer is better than that one because reasons or I sure miss this about that BG member." Of course! Have at it!

But what's best for the band?

Please. As if you would know. Have some fucking humility and give some fucking respect where its due.

/rant

OmegaSlayer
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#63 Post by OmegaSlayer » 27 Jan 2015 09:19

It's funny that you don't see the overall point of what's happening to BG, which something I find hilarious though very contradictory.
The band is going for a richer and proggy-er musical approach and now they have a drummer that is more metal oriented than the one they had when they did more direct stuff. :?:
Take every Frederik fills, they are tu-tu-pa-pa-da-da-ta-ta
Thomen fills are tu-tu-paaa-da-taaa-ga
Frederik fills are fast, tight, but Thomen's one are more varied and connected to the other musician's musical textures.

So yeah, when you talk about chemistry, that's the very point, I don't ear the chemistry with Frederik.
Listen how in the past records the drums accents fell in place during André's solos for example.

Again, the problem is not Frederik, but the kind of drummer Frederik is.
He's fast, consistent, reliable and would be a blessing for many bands with a much direct sound.
And that doesn't change, it's like asking David Gilmour to stop playing guitar slow and tasty and start playing fast.
As I mentioned I would question Steve Vai as a replacement for Marcus or André.
It's not about skills.

I think it's worse to ask Frederik to drop his style and to play like Thomen than saying he's inadequate.
I think it's worse to ask to be someone else which is humiliating, than saying "look, you kick major asses, but we need something different that is not natural for you".
I might be rude but not hypocrite.

To sum it up
Thomen leaves BG supposedly because BG wanted to be proggier after 2 very proggy albums like NIME and ANATO in which Thomen shows how proggy he can be
BG release ATITM which is much more direct than ANATO with a drummer that is more straight forward than Thomen
Then BG release ATEOT which is still more direct than ANATO but more proggy than ATITM and incredibly the drum parts become more flat.
BTRM goes proggier again and still the drum is really flat with some riffs changes without even fills to mark them (At The Edge Of Time thge song is an example of this).

Maybe it's Hansi and André liking this way, but again Frederik just accepts it and, again, if he doesn't have the personality to challenge the strong personalities of Hansi and André, again, for me it's inadequate.

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Avelar
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#64 Post by Avelar » 27 Jan 2015 12:36

priderock wrote:Grand Parade grow so much to me!!! It's a masterpiece! If it wasn't ATEOT, I was supposed to say it's really the best song on the album! It's just so amazing how bad the first time is while you're listening a BG record for a first time, but then after few more times it's just forever in your head!!! Officially I can say now, that this record is really maybe my favourite one in their career! It's just nothing less than a real masterpiece!!! I love it! No doubt it's their most ambitious thing till now!
This is exactly what I feel! Grand Parade is growing fast, amazing song! Now it is probably the second best track after ATEOT.
And the album is probably my favorite now too. Very solid. More mature and really better than their previous record.
Just keep in mind, this world is sacred.

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Avelar
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#65 Post by Avelar » 27 Jan 2015 13:24

GuardianKnight wrote:BTRM goes proggier again and still the drum is really flat with some riffs changes without even fills to mark them (At The Edge Of Time thge song is an example of this).

Maybe it's Hansi and André liking this way, but again Frederik just accepts it and, again, if he doesn't have the personality to challenge the strong personalities of Hansi and André, again, for me it's inadequate.
I think that is what songwriters (Hansi and Andre) want their songs to be. If they decided that there shouldn't be fills to mark riffs changes, then it's their vision and they have full rights to do such songs, after all they are artists and composers. Some people don't care that much about drumming as you do, some may even like it the way it is done. To me personally it sounds original at least. It is boring to always hear the same song structures.

I doubt that having another strong creative personality would make good for BG
Fred does what the band wants him to do. I think it's not that he can't play better or express his opinions to others. Maybe he realizes that this is how drumming should be done to fit the album's idea, maybe he even share the same point of view with other members.
Just keep in mind, this world is sacred.

OmegaSlayer
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#66 Post by OmegaSlayer » 27 Jan 2015 16:49

Avelar wrote: I doubt that having another strong creative personality would make good for BG
Fred does what the band wants him to do. I think it's not that he can't play better or express his opinions to others. Maybe he realizes that this is how drumming should be done to fit the album's idea, maybe he even share the same point of view with other members.
More strong creative personality is a blessing for a band.
Yeah, it becomes harder to make everyone agree and go along, but it makes you totally rich.

Again, I blame Hansi and André for loads of stuff, like having put Marcus' songwriting to a side, having removed twin leads guitars (why?) and for hyping silly stuff like downtuned guitars.

The downtune guitar hype has been priceless.
They made such a big fuss about it, while it's something loads of bands have done for 40 years.
They made it look like the second coming of Christ, giving new songwriting possibilities, while it's something they could have done anyway if they just used "inversions" of the "power 5th chords".
Beware that downtuning and using seven strings guitars are different things and not the same.
Downtuning the lowest string is nothing but a shortcut, and doesn't give new inspiration for sure.
When I heard and read them mentioning downtuning so much I was like :shock: "are they idiots?"
Loads of times I think Hansi and André need someone putting them back into the reality.

Fun stuff.
I just read André's interview on Italian magazine Guitar Club, January issue, where André didn't mention the downtuning, because he would have sounded very very very stupid.

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Warmoth
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#67 Post by Warmoth » 27 Jan 2015 18:12

OmegaSlayer wrote: The downtune guitar hype has been priceless.
They made such a big fuss about it, while it's something loads of bands have done for 40 years.
They made it look like the second coming of Christ, giving new songwriting possibilities, while it's something they could have done anyway if they just used "inversions" of the "power 5th chords".
Beware that downtuning and using seven strings guitars are different things and not the same.
Downtuning the lowest string is nothing but a shortcut, and doesn't give new inspiration for sure.
When I heard and read them mentioning downtuning so much I was like :shock: "are they idiots?"
Loads of times I think Hansi and André need someone putting them back into the reality.

Fun stuff.
I just read André's interview on Italian magazine Guitar Club, January issue, where André didn't mention the downtuning, because he would have sounded very very very stupid.
Are you a musician? Specifically a guitarist?

Loads of bands have been doing it for years, correct. And Blind Guardian has not. Which is why, yes, it is kind of a big deal to them. It's noteworthy.
An inverted powerchord as you've described sounds nothing like an actual Powerchord. It sounds like what it is....an invert, considerably higher in pitch, and not as full. It has it's uses, but replacing a powerchord is not one of them.

You seem to be under the impression that they're drop tuned, which is totally different from Downtuned, are you the idiot? Which doesn't even matter because in the studio video 3 Andre is clearly playing a 7 string ibanez.
Side note; If you down tune a 6 string guitar to B-flat (possibly the pitch of Andres 7 string) you could tune the "B" string by a 4th. This would be strikingly similar to playing on a 7 string without a high E. It would make sense for Marcus to do this, as he probably won't be playing any leads that would utilize a high E, and he wouldn't have to deal with a bulky neck. .....And Marcus actually did do this, as evidenced in studio video 6. He's complaining of loose strings due to detuning (on his 6 string LP) without increasing the string gauge. Whilst in the same frame Andre is on his 7 string.

Furthermore, playing on a guitar with a new tuning can actually give you inspiration. It actually does open up new song writing possibilities. By forcing yourself into unfamiliar territory, you see the fretboard in a different light.

Honestly I don't think they've made a huge deal out of the tuning anyways. I think they said they only used it in 3 songs or so.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#68 Post by OmegaSlayer » 27 Jan 2015 18:41

Blind Guardian have been playing in A flat from Follow The Blind to say the least.
That's downtune, and they always did that, so no point in mentioning it, because they would have eventually only added one more string, they could have just said that they used 7 strings guitars to expand more on the bass range adding a B flat over their E flat.

But they indeed drop tuned since in the vid you mention they talked about the problem they would have if they would start a song with the wrong guitar.
With a drop tune everything would sound bad.

And yeah, Marcus will have big problems with a Les Paul even with thicker string gauge compared to the baritone RGD Andrè is using.

So yeah, I think they use drop tune (remember it's translated from German) and it was badly translated because BG have played downtuned in A flat standard for their whole career, so there's no point in saying you're still doing what you've done for forever.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#69 Post by Warmoth » 27 Jan 2015 19:04

OmegaSlayer wrote:Blind Guardian have been playing in A flat from Follow The Blind to say the least.
That's downtune, and they always did that, so no point in mentioning it, because they would have eventually only added one more string, they could have just said that they used 7 strings guitars to expand more on the bass range adding a B flat over their E flat.

But they indeed drop tuned since in the vid you mention they talked about the problem they would have if they would start a song with the wrong guitar.
With a drop tune everything would sound bad.

And yeah, Marcus will have big problems with a Les Paul even with thicker string gauge compared to the baritone RGD Andrè is using.

So yeah, I think they use drop tune (remember it's translated from German) and it was badly translated because BG have played downtuned in A flat standard for their whole career, so there's no point in saying you're still doing what you've done for forever.
You said A flat a few times, I think you meant E flat standard. But come on, downtuned half a step to E flat is a big difference from a full 2and a half steps to B flat. And like you said, they've used that tuning forever, I think that's worth them mentioning. Maybe they didn't say 7 strings because Marcus isn't actually using a 7 string? I don't speak german, so I have to trust the translations.

Them talking about starting a song in the wrong tuning isn't totally evidence of drop-tuned, I'd consider it an equal screw up as a down-tuned. I will admit I don't know for sure. But just seeing that 7 string once seems like they aren't drop tuning. (Unless they're using like 3 tunings on the album)

And I've got a 24.75" scale tuned to B-flat no problem. I don't like terribly low action so I don't get extreme buzz or anything.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#70 Post by crzgfx » 27 Jan 2015 20:27

Definitely no drop tuning here. No drop tuned guitars on TOTG at least and I really don't think BG would ever drop tune their guitars. Nevertheless, drop tuned guitars CAN indeed work in Power Metal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68JDsFDmyfw

OmegaSlayer
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#71 Post by OmegaSlayer » 27 Jan 2015 20:43

I say A flat because in Italy we name that tuning with the 5th string, sorry.
As I told you I would have mentioned "we used 7 strings".
Extreme bands like Carcass, Soilwork, Darkane, Arch Enemy have used 6 strings tuned in B on the 6th string for the eternity and it's so common today.
Yes still uncommon to Blind Guardian, but nothing worth mentioning imho, that's why I found it so strange.
As much as I don't like drop tuning I can see how some can find it "inspiring" for new things while one more string, tuned with the usual interval doesn't make you see the fretboard in a different way, it only extends it on lower notes.
It puzzles me.

The problem using a shorter scale with thicker string gauge is not the problem of buzz, but a problem with definition intonation and harmonic frequences (not the natural harmonics you play on 5th, 7th fret etc..., but the way the string vibes).
Then Marcus' pick up choice (EMG 81-81) doesn't help as it will be very muddy

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#72 Post by Warmoth » 27 Jan 2015 21:16

Yeah that's cool.

I just imagine if they had said "we used 7 strings" your original post would have said "Why are they hyping 7 strings, tons of bands use 7 strings...."
I dislike drop tuning as well. I guess it's subjective but I write differently on an alternately tuned guitar. Maybe it's not just the tuning, but the overall feel of that other guitar I happen to be playing.

I see what you're saying about shorter scales. I truly can't comment completely on this technical aspect as I do not play active pickups, and from my experience it sounds and feels great. Another subjective point.

I didn't mean to derail.


For the album, I think it's pretty awesome. My least favorite track is probably the Ninth Wave. Which I do still like. I just feel like it should've picked up some speed at some point.

The one thing that let me down on this album was the lack of Medieval sounds. Acoustic guitars particularly.
But in all, I think it's great. Each track feels finely tuned and with each listen I peel back another layer of it.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#73 Post by Thoreg » 28 Jan 2015 18:50

It's difficult for me because these two opinions are changing constantly in me:
--#1--
(While I'm listening to the album:)
Wow! Great, modern, new tune, I've never heard this sound before from any other bands/albums. Listening to the whole album is like watching an epic movie.
--#2--
(When I'm not listening to it, just thinking about it:)
My problem with post-Thomen rhythms is the following: whenever a great melody and rhythm starts to build up and my head is prepared for some serious headbanging, the song suddenly slows down and turns into a f**ing math equation and destroys the music. Then I feel very disappointed and I feel that this is soulless and artificial. There's no real feeling in BG's music anymore, it's just a plain boring equation delivered with great expertise (wasted talent and effort) rather than being music. The situation is the same with Hansi's vocals. I can't remember more than 2-3 short melodies from the album. It's full of ridiculous vocal overlays. Also, the vocal and guitar melodies do not control the songs anymore, more likely the rhythm patterns do. The memorable melodies were the main strength of this band in the old days. I can sing each and every song's guitar and vocal lines until ATITM. I can't nearly say that about the last two albums. This direction of Blind Guardian is very bad. I would REALLY love to like them but I cannot. Of course the orchestrations are cool but I give them a s**t if the songs are bad. The band forgot the goal of their music some years ago. And still, they're lightyears above any other band that exists.
-----
Some points about the album to highlight:
- the vocals are generally too quiet
- Twilight of the Gods is simply terrible, it hurts my ears
- The Holy Grail is probably my favourite
- Miracle Machine is a nice hommage to Queen's "The Miracle"
- the album is much better than ATEOT
-----
I think I have to give the album many more spins to settle with a final opinion.
So many centuries
So many Gods
We were the prisoners
Of our own fantasy

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#74 Post by ragehu » 28 Jan 2015 22:11

I wrote the same
It is hard to remember anything - after I listened the album about 12 times

The only thing I miss - the memorable melody...

(De ahogy nézem, magyarul is írhatnám neked :-) )

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#75 Post by blindgfan » 28 Jan 2015 22:32

ragehu wrote:I wrote the same
It is hard to remember anything - after I listened the album about 12 times

The only thing I miss - the memorable melody...

(De ahogy nézem, magyarul is írhatnám neked :-) )
What's so bad about not remembering? It only means you will be listening to it for a longer period of time.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#76 Post by ragehu » 28 Jan 2015 22:43

It's absolutely true, and I will.
Maybe the album (and the direction of the band) is a bit too progressive to me
:-)

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#77 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 29 Jan 2015 00:33

nothing memorable??? been singing along to most choruses since the 2nd or 3rd spin, if not the chorus, definately humming along some epic melodies...

Hell, the entire album is stuck in my head...
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#78 Post by firecy » 29 Jan 2015 05:26

Overall I thought the album was good, but could have been much better. At the Edge of Time was my favorite BG album so far, and I was hoping this would be symphonic in a similar kind of way, but they did change quite a bit. I'm not musically adept enough to really know how to describe this, but the choruses in particular seemed a bit more upbeat and happy than in the previous album. More sounding like Queen and less powerful/intense. I remember the first time I heard the chorus to Sacred Worlds I was literally in awe, and I didn't have any moments like that on this album (the only part that even came close was the part between the second and third choruses on Grand Parade).

That said, I still thought the album was very good. I wasn't a huge fan of Twilight of the Gods, Ashes of Eternity, or Miracle Machine.

I actually liked the Ninth Wave, particularly the intro. I was really excited hearing that intro at the beginning of the album. The chorus, while catchy, was just a bit too...again I don't really know the right word, so I'll just say "happy" for me. Not powerful enough.

Prophecies, the Holy Grail, The Throne, and Sacred Minds were all solid songs.

At The Edge of Time was great. Really liked it.

Grand Parade was great too. While the chorus was possibly the most extreme example of over-the-top happy cheerful singing on the whole album, the rest of the song was very good and the part between the last two choruses was my favorite part of the whole album.

My favorite song from the album was the bonus track Distant Memories though. I thought that was an all-around amazing song. Maybe because the chorus didn't seem incredibly happy like the other songs, nor was it just a classic heavy metal song. I don't know, but it's my favorite song from the album by far.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#79 Post by Rokubota » 29 Jan 2015 08:06

I love how some people has problems with this record because it means that they are trying something challenging again. A lot of metal fans find NIME very boring and unmemorable you know, some even find them very overrated as a band.

The melodies in this new record are more mature in their construction, very fucking good guitar playing in the songs. At the edge of time is the Mordred's song of this album in terms of fluidity, so well structured and with an inspired Hansi.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#80 Post by Umex » 29 Jan 2015 08:38

Are there any lyrics floating around? I tried to search, but without success. I would like to see the ones for The Throne, specifically. I think the song is about game of thrones. I hope, at least :)

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#81 Post by priderock » 29 Jan 2015 09:15

Yesterday I started listening the album and after I heard The Throne, Grand Parade and The Ninth Wave, I was almost absolutely ready to say: "WOW, this is probably their best album...", then I listened to At The Edge Of Time(the song) and I absolutely changed my opinion...now I was ready to say: My God, this is the most epic, outstanding and unbelievable piece of music I have ever heard... there's just nothing comparable to it in the music history to me...!!! Now the easiest thing to me is to choose the new album as their best(to me)...the hard thing is describing the ATEOT song... :D :shock: :)
And, please, will someone tell me what's the musical definition of Hansi's vocals at the end of that song - for example the vocal line on 6:26... and why he's not using this magical as longer as life skills more often...???

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#82 Post by OmegaSlayer » 29 Jan 2015 09:24

Got the scans of the digibook.
I must say it's really cool, still it's a BIG shame there's no pic of the regular cover inside it.

The characters of the story are
The fallen son
Time
Void
Fear
Space
The crow
The chosen one

Won't say anything more :mrgreen:

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#83 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 29 Jan 2015 10:12

Umex wrote:Are there any lyrics floating around? I tried to search, but without success. I would like to see the ones for The Throne, specifically. I think the song is about game of thrones. I hope, at least :)
No, no need to have lyrics to know it isn't... the entire album is a concept story which Hansi made up, so nothing to do with GoT
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#84 Post by Orodaran » 29 Jan 2015 11:39

Few days away from the release (in Italy it will be avalaible on Tuesday) and from my unspoiled listening (Heard literally ONCE Twilight of the Gods and I didn't even watch the trailers... it's weird how I want to listen badly to this album, but I didn't even bothered with the trailer), I'll go on a semi-philosophical rant in saying that, whatever my review will be, or expectations are right now, in the end if I'll like the album or not it will depend on coincidences and luck, mostly.

Blind Guardian are making music since the 80's and I think that it's 20 years that I listen to them, give or take; they started as young music fans, looking up to Helloween, and now they're adult family men renowed in all the metal community, and I'm not anymore the kid that was so much into power metal. We've both grown, and it's nice and cool that so far I've always been interested in their music. It's blatantly obvious that BG evolved more than once; their trademark sound and style was born with Tales from the Twilight World, then they made it better with Somewhere Far Beyond, and reached perfection of that style with Imaginations from the Other Side... so overplayed live that it made me almost got bored with the songs, but it's a damn kickass masterpiece of an album in that style that could never be topped, and they didn't even try, going for the grandeur route of Nightfall in Middlearth and A Night at the Opera. I'm more now into this intricate stuff as well, rather than plain power metal; for example I've liked a lot the first Savage Circus album, but it was no Imaginations, and I saw it as proof that if BG would have continued on that route, they would have ended up like many other metal bands where every album is a bit less good than the previous one. At the Ede of Time came out 4 years ago and I totally love it, I heard it the other week and I still enjoy it, *for my tastes now* it's a really great album and I love this mix of older power and modern majesty and bombastic sounds and choirs. Now, after 4 years, almost 5, will that kind of music still appeal to me? maybe yes, maybe not, but in the end it will depend on luck as I was saying before - BG make the music they feel to do, and if I like also this album along with the other ones, it will be another strike of luck, a sign that their intentions for THEIR music and THEIR band still suits me. If not, well... 20 years of dedication and affection for the band won't be erased by an album I won't fully love, I will hope to be luckier next time :wink:

Also, this line of reasoning may not apply to all bands - there have been bands that put out obscenely diverse and controversial albums (Risk... St. Anger...), but BG's output have always been consistent so yes, I stand by my idea that how much we like or not this new records depends on how both the musical ideas of the band and our own personal tasted have evolved in four-almost-five years, rather than the band losing the plot, selling out or whatever... they've changed, so did we, if we'll like or love the album let's consider ourselves lucky!
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#85 Post by Avelar » 29 Jan 2015 11:46

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:nothing memorable??? been singing along to most choruses since the 2nd or 3rd spin, if not the chorus, definately humming along some epic melodies...

Hell, the entire album is stuck in my head...
Yes, I changed my opinion about memorability of songs on BtRM. They all are distinctive, original enough, with many catchy moments that should be remembered easily, they also are stuck in my head.

As for my review, I'll make it short (being not a native English speaker, it is hard for me to make an extensive review).

The 4 very best songs on the album are:
- At The Edge Of Time
- Distant Memories
- The Throne
- Grand Parade
All of them are equally delightful and outstanding artworks. I love At The Edge Of Time (still gives me goosebumps), The Throne and Grand Parade for their epic grandiosity, good song structures and touching moments where Hansi shines. Distant Memories is a true masterpiece with touching vocals too.

Then there are 4 great songs that are a little of the previous 4:
- The Ninth Wave
- Prophecies
- The Holy Grail
- Miracle Machine
The opening track is something new for BG, I like it's queerness and great choir. Prophecies and The Holy Grail have very catchy moments and great composition. I enjoy also Miracle Machine much.

The song that stands itself is
- Ashes Of Eternity
It has cool guitars and I like its mood, Hansi's singing and how it flows.

And the 2 remaining songs are:
- Twilight Of The Gods
- Sacred Mind
None of these songs is bad, they are even more than good, better than many old BG songs. They are just don't shine as much as other songs on the album. Twilight Of The Gods is somewhat similar to Ashes Of Eternity but has deficiencies that have already been discussed many times. Sacred Mind is a strong song but gives me little emotion.

Beyond The Red Mirror stands as a masterpiece for me. BG grew as composers quite a few since the last album, musicians' skills were improved, even production doesn't seem that bad as I thought initially. I would give the album 10/10.

It may change with time but currently my top BG albums are A Night At The Opera and Beyond The Red Mirror.
Just keep in mind, this world is sacred.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#86 Post by bard_92 » 29 Jan 2015 11:58

Avelar wrote:
Gandalf de Grijze wrote:nothing memorable??? been singing along to most choruses since the 2nd or 3rd spin, if not the chorus, definately humming along some epic melodies...

Hell, the entire album is stuck in my head...
Yes, I changed my opinion about memorability of songs on BtRM. They all are distinctive, original enough, with many catchy moments that should be remembered easily, they also are stuck in my head.

As for my review, I'll make it short (being not a native English speaker, it is hard for me to make an extensive review).

The 4 very best songs on the album are:
- At The Edge Of Time
- Distant Memories
- The Throne
- Grand Parade
All of them are equally delightful and outstanding artworks. I love At The Edge Of Time (still gives me goosebumps), The Throne and Grand Parade for their epic grandiosity, good song structures and touching moments where Hansi shines. Distant Memories is a true masterpiece with touching vocals too.

Then there are 4 great songs that are a little of the previous 4:
- The Ninth Wave
- Prophecies
- The Holy Grail
- Miracle Machine
The opening track is something new for BG, I like it's queerness and great choir. Prophecies and The Holy Grail have very catchy moments and great composition. I enjoy also Miracle Machine much.

The song that stands itself is
- Ashes Of Eternity
It has cool guitars and I like its mood, Hansi's singing and how it flows.

And the 2 remaining songs are:
- Twilight Of The Gods
- Sacred Mind
None of these songs is bad, they are even more than good, better than many old BG songs. They are just don't shine as much as other songs on the album. Twilight Of The Gods is somewhat similar to Ashes Of Eternity but has deficiencies that have already been discussed many times. Sacred Mind is a strong song but gives me little emotion.

Beyond The Red Mirror stands as a masterpiece for me. BG grew as composers quite a few since the last album, musicians' skills were improved, even production doesn't seem that bad as I thought initially. I would give the album 10/10.

It may change with time but currently my top BG albums are A Night At The Opera and Beyond The Red Mirror.
WOW!!! You have probably choose the songs in the same order as I would :D

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#87 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 29 Jan 2015 20:55

Ok, here it goes... gonna give a song by song review.

The Ninth Wave
I really, REALLY, love the intro, grand and epic (and the outro is all that as well!!). Definately not disturbed by the modern percussion sound, nor by the happier sounding chorus. To me this all really fits together, story tellingwise! It is a great opener and I really hope to hear it live!
I wonder what "File 664" is though...

Twilight Of The Gods
The single, and in my opinion one of the weakest songs on the album. Still a far cry from a bad song. Been singing along with the chorus for some time now, really catchy and possibly a good one for live shows. Also in many ways this song is very typical for BG.

Prophecies
A bit of a weird intro, but otherwise a very solid song. Chorus isn't very catchy, except the last two lines. The final part is awesome though!
Did any of you guys also hear him sing "There's war beyond the raptor" instead of "There's ar beyond the red door"?

At The Edge Of Time
Quite possibly my favorite song! Amazing storytelling value, great orchestration and great balance with the metal. Damn, this song is so epic and great. It feels like there is no chorus, augmenting the storytelling feeling, but there actually is one, and it is definately great!
The old gods are calling - the end is near AWESOMENESS!!

Ashes Of Eternity
Love the intro, nice and heavy. I don't really like the "stuttering" singing... those short burst are annoying me a bit.
Really love the Then from the ashes of eternity line, it should have been part of the chorus and repeated! The outro is again awesomeness..
But all in all, I think this is also one of the weakest songs on the album, but unlike TOTG, this could have been better by including that ashes of eternity line in every chorus...

Distant Memories
Again a bit of a strange intro, but more fitting this time. A nice slower song, bringing balance to the Force (of the album ;) )
Hansi at his best, AMAZING chorus, possibly the best ever. Subtle incorporation of the orchestra. This song feels like the pivotal defining moment in the story and I honestly cannot understand why it is a bonustrack. It is emotionally the strongest they've ever written!
I want them to find a way to bring this to a live setting, as it is an instant classic! Not having heard this before today, I almost regret not downloading it when it became available! Quite possibly the best song on the album!

The Holy Grail
The Holy Chorus! Super song, again a strong contender for the top positions on this album. I hope they might give this one a try live as well. Really fast.

The Throne
Another contender for the top spots, great incorporation of orchestra and backing choirs. We must serve the fire!!!
Great chorus, and love the epic sound. Top notch story telling, and the orchestra helps create the appropriate emotional atmosphere for the song.

Sacred Mind
Nice atmospheric intro, Hansi gets really low. Anato feel to the first part of the song. My spirit will set it all on FIRE That strong fire is truly fun to shout out loud! Even though the chorus sounds nice, it is lyrically the least inspired one Hansi's ever written. A mid tier song compared to others on this album, were this to be on the previous album it might have been one of the top 3-4 songs...

Miracle Machine
A nice ballad, beautiful hommage to Queen and in particular their The Miracle song. Not their best ballad, also not their worst, would be nice to see it live as well.

Grand Parade
I love it, it is truly a grand and epic and bombastic ending to the album. Love the orchestral melodies, they are amazing. The chorus is also one of my favs, though not really catchy, just beautiful.
Say goodbye my friend
here's your promised end

They promised and to me they delivered more than promised!
(And again an awesome and epic outro)

Doom
Love the intro, which we saw Marcus play in one of the teasers. Fairly old school sound, reminding me of SFB. From the So there's no relief part all throughout the chorus it is more ANATO-like, then again the old school guitar with accompanying piano.
A good song, and definately a bonus track.. it doesn't really seem to fit in with the other songs, so its position at the end as a bonus is justified. Nonetheless it is a better song than Twilight of the Gods or Ashes of Eternity.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#88 Post by OmegaSlayer » 29 Jan 2015 21:24

We think exactly the same on Ashes, Distant and Throne :)

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#89 Post by Blast » 31 Jan 2015 10:44

@Gandalf
I assume you bought the Earbook since you listed 'Doom' and I was kind of curious to the actual contents of the Earbook and if it held anything special over the digibook edition. (Not counting the extra track, I'm talking about the book itself)

I just viewed an unboxing video of the Earbook on Youtube and noticed that on some pages there was something what I assume is an accompanying story to the story in the songs. I also noticed that these pages where in German, now the reviewer was German so it would make sense that he has a 'German version' of the book if you will. But I was wondering if your version has those pages in German as well, assuming you didn't buy it of EMP.de or something like that. (I can read, understand and speak German quite well, but I would prefer it if everything in the book was in English)

This is one of the first times I haven't pre-ordered a new BG cd, but I wanted to hold back a little since I don't really know if the +/- 20,- euro's extra is worth it if it buys you just a (possibly) mediocre song and blown up versions of the digibook pages without extra content.

Thanks in advance dude!

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#90 Post by OmegaSlayer » 31 Jan 2015 10:56

I'm not Gandalf but I hope I can help anyway :)
The text is both in English and German.
The earbook has some additional text and images than the digibook edition.
But we talk about one more page and one more image, for some silly reason the digibook edition doesn't even contain the image that is the cover of the regular edition.

Also...damn...no one posted Doom on youtube yet :(

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#91 Post by priderock » 31 Jan 2015 11:01

OmegaSlayer wrote: Also...damn...no one posted Doom on youtube yet :(
I'm also refreshing YouTube constantly, but still nothing... :cry:

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#92 Post by Traveller in Time » 31 Jan 2015 11:30

the additional text is some kind of diary (or better to say a story about the story) of Hansi writing about the story and that the crow was visiting him and kind of "forcing" him to finish it. Starting with thew words:

Before we begin: this is strictly confidential


it's in german and english
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#93 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 31 Jan 2015 11:36

what the guys said, it is in both languages, but to be honest, I haven't seen the contents of the digipack, so I can't judge
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#94 Post by Blast » 31 Jan 2015 12:44

All of you thanks for the answers!

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#95 Post by Umex » 01 Feb 2015 01:35

Concerning the lyrics... i think they aren't all about Hansi's story. C'mon, "file 664"? "Xandu"? "The Nine"? Anyone got any explanations?

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#96 Post by blindgfan » 01 Feb 2015 02:04

Umex wrote:Concerning the lyrics... i think they aren't all about Hansi's story. C'mon, "file 664"? "Xandu"? "The Nine"? Anyone got any explanations?
"My Xanadu" parts make the otherwise awesome song look bad.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#97 Post by OmegaSlayer » 01 Feb 2015 08:28

Umex wrote:Concerning the lyrics... i think they aren't all about Hansi's story. C'mon, "file 664"? "Xandu"? "The Nine"? Anyone got any explanations?
Hansi took known elements and mixed them in his fiction.
I think the Nine are just the corrupted 9 politicians that want to turn into "aeon gods".
Why 9...because it's the biggest number before entering the tens.
File 664 is a register permission in Linux system
Xanadu, good mythological city to pick up avoiding the ones already used too much Avalon, Shamballah, Atlantis, El Dorado etc...
But you also have Mordred, the Grail and other elements that now I'm missing.
He mixed them freely, but I don't think he's hinting any connection

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#98 Post by loren » 01 Feb 2015 12:32

I don't know if it has already been said by someone: The ending part of "Prophecies" ---> "BUT DON'T BE AFRAID, there's war beyond the red door..." (the capital letters of this part) has the exact same melody with the beginning of "Distant Memories" 's chorus.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#99 Post by Edain » 02 Feb 2015 07:53

Not mine, but please read this review. I don't think there was ever any review that spoke so directly from my heart:

http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2015/01 ... ed-mirror/
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#100 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 02 Feb 2015 10:40

i however do disagree wholeheartedly with his statements about ATEOT and ATITM
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