'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

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DREAMASTER
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'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#1 Post by DREAMASTER » 21 Jan 2015 20:37

It's open the topic for the Bards fans post their reviews on the new album.



Ok first listening of the promo done and here is my first thoughts: the album didn't grabbded like ATEOT did. Didn't find a memorable song. The only only that I really liked so far was the ballad. But one thing I'm sure, the drums sound worst than ever. The Drums sound lifeless, artificial, no power, dynamics. Dnd damn for those weird sound effects noises or weird percussion in TNW and TOTG and present in another song or two that ruins quite a bit the songs for me. I can't stand anymore Charlie Bauerfiend mixing and mastering job. Quite terrible. He can be a good producer but as a mixing and mastering engineer is quite bad and it's not only in BG but also in other bands.


So must listen a few more times to see if things change.
Last edited by DREAMASTER on 23 Jan 2015 15:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Orodaran
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#2 Post by Orodaran » 21 Jan 2015 21:16

Can't review it, didn't buy it yet! :P *Elitist asshole mode on*
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
A slight call afar is tempting me, like a whisper sweet or an awful scream; I cannot ignore what I've always been, I'm leaving again - one last time? in my little kingdom I can be what I really wanted to be... The wanderer

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#3 Post by arenamaster » 21 Jan 2015 21:25

Got it preordered, but from what I've heard so far I'm floored.
Each step I take,
May it hurt may it ache
Leads me further
Away from the past!
But as long as I breathe,
Each smile in my bleak face,
I'm on my way to find
Back to the peace of mind!

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#4 Post by Freak666 » 21 Jan 2015 21:55

I will at least need 3 month to really judge it.

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bestpike
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#5 Post by bestpike » 21 Jan 2015 22:43

Freak666 wrote:I will at least need 3 month to really judge it.
and the lyrics!
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

bard_92
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#6 Post by bard_92 » 21 Jan 2015 22:45

bestpike wrote:
Freak666 wrote:I will at least need 3 month to really judge it.
and the lyrics!
bestpike wrote:
Freak666 wrote:I will at least need 3 month to really judge it.
and the lyrics!

:!: :!: :!:

OmegaSlayer
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#7 Post by OmegaSlayer » 21 Jan 2015 22:53

The Ninth Wave...3 choirs, almost 300 people singing for BG...Utopia, Discordia, Discordia, Dystopia, a choir you won't forget, then some drums with futuristic feels, a very dark Hansi, the orchestra, and finally the guitars opening a rocky mid-tempo with an almost industrial vibe.
It has been ages since we heard Hansi so dark, low and evil...until the chorus, totally coming from the left field.
The chorus is cool, very 70s, very Uriah Heep, but too open and light and feels like a steak in a vegan meal.
Cool instrumental sections.
A song that is very fresh and new for BG style, still imho it needed to be very obscure in the chorus and not hippie and happy.
It doesn't surprise, it just leaves you puzzled.
I think I gave the record 10 spins already and the chorus still doesn't fit.

Twilight Of The Gods, the single.
Not the most representative song of the record but still an insanely good song with some excellent moments.
The speed is there, the catchyness too, and another chorus from the left field, but it's much better than TNW one, and mostly of all, will be cool to sing live.

Prophecy it's where the record starts to get serious.
An electric clean guitar and an harpsichord open a mid tempo with great vocals line that leads to a chorus built on a self citation.
The song is full of nice breaks of pace, a beautiful solo and an ending which is one of the coolest part of the whole record.
This is the first song that actually is a song and doesn't sound like a patch of ideas.

At The Edge Of Time it's a very hard to swallow piece.
I called it piece because it's more in the vein of a section of a musical than a song.
Lots of things happen in the song, which has the best orchestrated parts of all the tracks.
Still the song is maybe too compressed in length and has not the space to breathe and gives the impression to spread chaotically all over the place.
The very flat and uninspired drumming doesn't help to give this song a direction and dynamics and again gives a bit the idea of patchwork.

Ashes Of Eternity starts with a massive beautiful guitar riff, almost Gothenburg/Swedish sounding soon butchered by a very crazy André going crazy on the whammy bar.
A mid tempo that feels like a filler, except for a beautiful section that brings back to the sounds of Theatre Of Pain.
The chorus feels again cheesy and out of place, the solo is the worst I ever heard from André.
Obviously the song has some great sections, as it's expected from BG, and the song is not a turd, but it's a shame that those cool parts were used as brief passages instead of building the song upon them.

Distant Memories, the first bonus track.
It's a crime it has been left out of the standard tracklist.
The song imho sounds like Mordred's Song would sound today, less aggressive, slower, but more proggy and dreamy.
Its place in the tracklist is also very important as it gives the following song more space to breathe and more attack.
Nothing feels out of place in this song.

The Holy Grail is a tribute to the past.
The ancient past, as this song feels more akin to the songs of Follow The Blind than Journey Through The Dark as it is very thrashy.
A really nice song, but this is not Valhalla, Welcome To Dying nor Mirror Mirror.
It's not direct enough and singable in every single section, and it lacks aggression, again due to a drum section that is so plain, flat and weak it hurts...it's there but doesn't give anything to the song.
But yeah, an helluva good song and a nice gift for the old fans.

The Throne is THE masterpiece.
This is a song that flows from beginning to end and flies and soars with a tragic and epic pace.
Insanely beautiful vocal lines, simple but effective orchestration, exciting build ups, a feeling between the music score, the main theme of a musical.
This song has truly the best vibes of A Night At The Opera and A Twist In The Myth compressed in 7 minutes, and it's the closest thing to And Then There Was Silence, it's ATTWS condensed from a suite into a song.
Alone it's worth the price of the most pricey version of the record.

Sacred Mind, another gem of crystalline beauty.
Here BG show that they are indeed able to go complex without losing the meaning of a song.
The song changes a lot, it gives the feeling to be totally raw and psychotic, still elegant and flowing.
Here the vibes from the fast episodes from Somewhere Far Beyond are heavy.
Another chorus coming from the left side, but this time convincing, fitting and not cheesy, but slightly evil-ish disturbing and haunting.

Miracle Machine, dropped are the classical guitars for this record's slow song.
A piece of rare beauty strongly influenced by Queen and Meat Loaf.
Hansi doesn't shine like in The Eldar, with that incredible pathos, but his performance is top notch and the song is a pure beauty

Grand Parade is another piece that has been taken out of a musical.
The song is not bad, but I found it boring like few, again too much stuff in so little time with little space to breatheso that it loses dynamics.
It has indeed this grandiose feeling, grandiose, more like a grand ball at a court and not epic, except a section or two.
I see it as the happy ending of the concept but I feel it too gaudy anyway.
For me it's a bit of a chore to listen through it.

An awesome record, but I hope BG will refine some things in the next record instead of stacking them.
There are in my opinion less memorable songs than in any record except Follow The Blind.
The SONGS where BG organize their ideas and don't go over the place are timeless gems, but most feels just as an experiment, some with better results, some with less.

The production is bad.
Yes, it's an MP3 but the physical copy of Twilight gives enough of an hint to what the differences will be.
The rhythm guitar is pitted in the mix and doesn't bite.
The bass guitar is a ghastly presence.
The drums...the drums are flat, plain, uninspired, uninteresting, sometimes you don't even realize that there's a drum, and when you finally get it, it's just because you realize it has been doing the exact same pattern the last 3 minutes and I swear I double checked.

I love this record, but in a BG record chart, considering the consistency of good songs this would be third...from the bottom, only better than A Twist In The Myth and Follow The Blind.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#8 Post by Avelar » 22 Jan 2015 16:50

Nice review, OmegaSlayer :) I agree in many points: that choruses are often from the left field, that some songs seem to be patches of ideas and not complete songs, that there are not many memorable songs.
And despite all this problems the album still contains real gems, I love it too.
I'm not going to rate this album and compare it with previous records. This is not the same Blind Guardian as on Follow The Blind, the band changed their direction one more time and I accept it because they still make great music.
Just keep in mind, this world is sacred.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#9 Post by vlssstv » 22 Jan 2015 19:42

super excited for this album, "totg" is all I know. Apart from the promo trailers and a web review from metalsucks website ( they gave it very good reviews). When I get it I will give a full review.

OmegaSlayer
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#10 Post by OmegaSlayer » 22 Jan 2015 20:24

Avelar wrote:Nice review, OmegaSlayer :) I agree in many points: that choruses are often from the left field, that some songs seem to be patches of ideas and not complete songs, that there are not many memorable songs.
And despite all this problems the album still contains real gems, I love it too.
I'm not going to rate this album and compare it with previous records. This is not the same Blind Guardian as on Follow The Blind, the band changed their direction one more time and I accept it because they still make great music.
Thanks :)
I think I didn't explain myself well probably.
I compared the album to the other just pointing the amount of masterpieces inside them.
Follow is a great album, I SOOOOOOOOOOOOO love it, but it has only 2 true masterpieces: Banish and Valhalla.
A Twist has 2 or 3 masterpieces.
This album is insanely good but other records like Somewhere or Imaginations have all gems.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#11 Post by bestpike » 23 Jan 2015 01:21

This is the most brutal, catchy, motherfucking sledgehammering album of Blind Guardian. None of these adjectives imply it's the best though. Not yet. I'm glad they left Distant Memories out of the normal version. It seems to destroy that awesome flow of power the album so incessantly sustains from start to finish. After many times of listening, I still can't believe my ears.
Last edited by bestpike on 23 Jan 2015 01:23, edited 1 time in total.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

Rokubota
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#12 Post by Rokubota » 23 Jan 2015 01:23

I can't give a fair review right now because the leaked version is a very low quality webrip that's said to be 320 kbps but in reality is not even that. Right now I think that BTRM is better than the last 2 records but that could change in a month or two.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#13 Post by ragehu » 23 Jan 2015 01:26

I am lucky because I can listen to the album, thanks for my work.
After 5-6 listening, if you ask me to sing a part of any of the songs... I won't be able to do it.

Maybe I have to listen to it a dozen times or more.

Everyting is perfect, this album is a great work
I miss only one little thing - the memorable melodies.

I can give 9 or maybe 10 to this album. Blind Guardian is one of my all time favorite bands.
So I do it with pleasure. But in this case, I have to give 25 points to Nightfall
:-)

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#14 Post by ragehu » 23 Jan 2015 01:30

I agree, the best song of the album is "The Throne"

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#15 Post by Feanor l'invincible » 23 Jan 2015 03:02

Day 3 : Still "The Throne" sitting on the throne. "At the Edge of Time" begins to make more sense. "The Holy Grail" is definitely another journey through the darkest days of my childhood which are very emotional and this nostalgy is magic. "Sacred Mind" will continue to blow my mind for the next 4 to 5 five years waiting for (I hope so) an eleventh album. I believe "The Ninth Wave" is the most innovative song (even if I can spot a "Fly" reference around 3:42) as I can feel Doom Metal attitude around 2:30, Demons & Wizards reference around 7:16, the choirs in addition of dark choirs and electronic stuff. "Prophecies" has this magnificient cliffhanger and great song too. Still got to get through "Ashes of Eternity", this one has some good stuff but ..?! "Grand Parade" is somewhere between "At the Edge of Time" and "The Throne", still need time to dig it.

To be continued...
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#16 Post by Light of Eärendil » 23 Jan 2015 05:23

Well, I'm just gonna say what I had said before. This has to be the most grand, epic, melodic, heavy laden on vocals and choirs album of Blind Guardian!! I still don't have words to express the extent of this epicness, too many changes, guitar melodies and voices and vocal harmonies which is what I like the most about Blind Guardian. The Throne is the best for me along with At The Edge Of Time, Holy Grail, Ninth Wave and Grand Parade, which I think should have been longer. I have nothing against the production or the audio, it sounds great on my audio equipment and I only have to make some adjustments to the equalizer for it to sound better... I know it's just MP3, so I'm sure the vinyl will sound 100 times better, I already ordered it... I still have to give it a lot more listens, too much to digest in only one day...

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#17 Post by t.a.j. » 23 Jan 2015 15:14

My general impression:
As has been mentioned repeatedly, more often than not, the choruses just don't fit the songs. It's almost as if someone had thought that you need to have upbeat and catchy choruses, fuck the dark and dense rest of the song. Too bad that that someone was horribly wrong. Not being a big fan of metal orchestrations, I really liked Ninth Wave until that chorus came in...
All in all, what it reminds of most is Ayreon, though not in a good way.

Also, the Grand Parade reminds me of Green Day, both the title (viz The Black Parade), the imagery and the feeling of the song and mostly the combination of those three things. And that's not the only time when it feels like something was just a blatant rip-off.

There were some really cool moments, but all in all it feels so disjointed....
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#18 Post by DREAMASTER » 23 Jan 2015 15:54

My first little review added in the first comment at the top :)
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#19 Post by OmegaSlayer » 23 Jan 2015 16:05

The record will surely grow on you, but if you don't like them at first, song won't become masterpieces.

I must say that At The Edge Of Time and The Holy Grail grew in me quite a good bit, but they're still not masterpieces in my book.
Ashes Of Eternity will remain a crime against good sense.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#20 Post by Light of Eärendil » 23 Jan 2015 18:16

At first listen it felt kinda disjointed... but at the 3rd and 4th listen it all fell into place... now it sounds to me like a perfect whole, complex but beautifully structured... I'm loving The Throne beyond measure...

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#21 Post by ErHaO » 23 Jan 2015 19:46

Save for Twilight of the Gods and a bit of Ninth Wave I am not hearing any disjointedness. If anything, I think the songwriting is amazingly thight for the most part. With ATEOT they even managed to make song that builds momentum to become one of their most epic songs within just 7 minutes. Same goes for the Throne (still no favourite of mine, but I do like it now), it feels like a condensed ANATO song in all it's grandeur without feeling short or awkwardly paced. Prophecies is also one of those tracks that introduces a lot of catchy tunes (be it vocal lines, riffs or solos) while seamlessly transitioning between one and another.

Album pacing is much better too with Distant Memories. It is not the most memorable song for me, but it fits well and listening to it is somewhat relaxing before the epic second half of the album.

Still, I will not review any album before time has done it's job. I can never predict how an albums sinks into my memory, but this one will not be negative I am willing to bet.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#22 Post by bestpike » 24 Jan 2015 13:47

The Holy Grail is my current favorite. 340bpm monster, is it the fastest BG song? I dunno why but I always thought the faster the song the more BG's genius shines. I'm so glad they decided to pay less attention to the slower stuff. Anyone can make a slow song, but the fast stuff can expose both the faults and the beauty at the same time.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#23 Post by drummer88 » 24 Jan 2015 14:07

bestpike wrote:The Holy Grail is my current favorite. 340bpm monster, is it the fastest BG song? I dunno why but I always thought the faster the song the more BG's genius shines. I'm so glad they decided to pay less attention to the slower stuff. Anyone can make a slow song, but the fast stuff can expose both the faults and the beauty at the same time.
Well 340bpm are equal to 170bpm an so it's not the fastest song of BG. I'm not a 100% sure, but I think among the fastest Songs (I refer here to Songs with 16tel Notes [don't know how you say it in english] and not with triplets) are Ashes to Ashes, The Edge, Punishment divine, I'm alive, Sacred Mind (in some parts),A voice in the dark, banished from sanctuary.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#24 Post by Midnight » 24 Jan 2015 14:14

<3<3<3 Prophecies <3<3<3
I've almost forgotten after all these years what it is like to listen to a BG album for the first time. After my first listening I was like "What the hell is this shapeless music??" I wasn't deterred. Now I'm starting to see these patterns and I think it's actually a genious album once again. It's hard to judge right now but I think I think these guys made something grandiose.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#25 Post by OmegaSlayer » 24 Jan 2015 14:30

Indeed, no one writes song at 340 bpm lol because it's unpractical

Some bpm samples

A voice in the dark is 184
Ashes to ashes 200
Banish from sanctuary 180
Damned for all times 185
Journey through the dark 180
Lost in the twilight hall 190
Mirror mirror 180
Punishment divine 182
Ride into obsession 210
Somewhere far beyond 190
The curse of feanor 150
The last candle 182
Valhalla 172
Welcome to dying 180

I'm at work and can't try, but Holy Grail shouldn't even touch the 175 bpm

residentour
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#26 Post by residentour » 24 Jan 2015 14:46

BPM values for the album:

1. "The Ninth Wave" 117
2. "Twilight of the Gods" 186
3. "Prophecies" 93
4. "At the Edge of Time" 120
5. "Ashes of Eternity" 122
6. "Distant Memories" 85
7. "The Holy Grail" 166
8. "The Throne" 130
9. "Sacred Mind" 186
10. "Miracle Machine" 73
11. "Grand Parade" 90
Last edited by residentour on 24 Jan 2015 19:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#27 Post by drummer88 » 24 Jan 2015 14:49

OmegaSlayer wrote:Indeed, no one writes song at 340 bpm lol because it's unpractical

Some bpm samples


Ride into obsession 210


I'm at work and can't try, but Holy Grail shouldn't even touch the 175 bpm
This one is played with triplets so it doesn't Count ;-)

If residentour is right, then sacred mind (at least the two fast parts towards the end) and totg enter the list of the fastest Songs with 16tel at 186bpm.

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bestpike
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#28 Post by bestpike » 24 Jan 2015 17:19

I'm not technical on the BPM measuring at all, but for some reason The Holy Grail makes me at beat at 340 times a minute, instead of 170. I've no idea what's the official measuring of songs. It certainly is (or at least feels) faster than Ride Into Obsession.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

drummer88
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#29 Post by drummer88 » 24 Jan 2015 17:40

bestpike wrote:I'm not technical on the BPM measuring at all, but for some reason The Holy Grail makes me at beat at 340 times a minute, instead of 170. I've no idea what's the official measuring of songs. It certainly is (or at least feels) faster than Ride Into Obsession.
And it's also right what you say. But it makes no difference if you write a song in 340bpm, 170 bpm or 85 bpm. You can always double the bpm or divide it by two. The only difference is that the note value has to adapt to the tempo you write in. E.g. a 8'tel in 340 is a 16'tel in 170.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#30 Post by SwordOfTheMorning » 24 Jan 2015 23:23

Hi,I'm new to the forum, just wanted to share with you my first impressions on the new album.

Premise: I LOVED ATEOT, I consider it one of the greatest albums ever written by any band, and it goes up there in my top 3 best BG albums, along with Nightfall in the Middle-Earth and A Night At The Opera.
So I had extremely high expectations, and after 3 days and some 10-15 listenings I got to say it didn't quite live up. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good album so far, but for BG standards it's only average. It continues on the prog-symphonic style of ATEOT but, generally, most songs just don't seem as inspired, with melodies and harmonies not so good nor original. Especially the longer and most ambitious songs, which I usually love (Wheel of Time, And Then There Was Silence), are a bit of a letdown this time.

Though, there are some good songs that stand out:

-At The Edge Of Time: easily one of the best songs on the album, really good and complex orchestrations and an epic chorus.

-Holy Grail: seems right out of Imaginations From The Other Side, a good song overall, but isn't what I expected from this album.

-The Throne: Along with ATEOT, my favourite so far. Fast, great chorus, guitar solos, the orchestrations are just about right not to overwhelm everything else.

-Miracle Machine: the shortest track is a little jewel, just Hansi's voice with a piano, violins and some backing tracks. I just wish the bigger tracks were as inspired.

-Grand Parade: a good song overall, falls just short of the monumental masterpiece it could have been, very 'ATEOTesque', but again a bit unoriginal and obvious, especially the chorus.

Well that's it, of course I'll have to give this album many more listens, get a physical copy and the lyrics booklet as soon as it comes out, and I will sure come to appreciate more the other songs as well, but as far as first impressions go, this has blown me away as much as ATEOT.

Good Night everyone :)

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#31 Post by Rokubota » 25 Jan 2015 00:50

I will never understands what people see in ATEOT, because to me that record is by far one of the least ambitious albums in their career. That record was the second coming of ATITM in terms of importance in their discography until the moment when Wheel Of Time plays to save it.

Ride Into Obsesion and Wheel Of Time are the only songs that stood out in that record.

Any song in this new album with the exception of TOTG destroys that album IMHO, no a single doubt in my mind about it. The more I listen to BTRM the more it feels like a new classic to me.

I'm in love with Hansi singing again, that performance in the song At The Edge Of Time is magical man.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#32 Post by bestpike » 25 Jan 2015 01:49

The most impressive thing on this album is how fast it hooked. In all of the previous albums this is a slow task where I would like 2-3 songs and then gradually the others will start sinking in as I discover them and learn the lyrics. Now this could mean that it could get older much faster than the other albums, which I hope won't happen.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#33 Post by Greektrooper » 25 Jan 2015 01:59

Well....well....well......what a surprise!! Guess what: my thoughts and predictions about the production and the drum sound came true.Bauer...something ruined TOTALLY the sound of BG. Lame drum sound, 20000.......00 voices screaming over violins,drums(?),guitars(?),synths & poor Hansi, and long time-grabbed by the hair songs,that was the very first impression for me. I don't even dare to imagine how the orchestral album will sound. Maybe I'm confused and this is the orchestral album who knows......As for the songs: Prophecies,The Throne and Holy Grail are real masterpieces,diamonds,gems!!!.Great vocals, good bridges, inspired choruses everything perfect. The rest of the album is the most boring I've ever heard from BG. The same & the same uninspired things covered by an orchestra. I thought that classical staff are supposed to played along or under metal music! My last hope is that all songs may sound a bit differently live. Sorry guys, but as it goes,the whole thing takes a too progressive road for me.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#34 Post by priderock » 25 Jan 2015 08:47

I'm sorry guys, but I absolutely cannot agree with some of you!!! First of all, ATEOT seems one of their really ambitious albums, and this album hooked me into BG! The songs are absolutely inspired - just in a different direction - more classical wise! I think it's just impossible to say that Sacred Words, Road Of No Release and Wheel Of Time are not just the best songs from this album(to me), but also one of the best highlights in their career... So, I just think that their is a major problem sometimes between the people, and it's very simple -
they see the things only from their point of view, only from their ears and eyes! What I mean is that if you don't like some of their stuff, this doesn't mean it's uninspired, it's just something different from your taste! So why we all don't stop to be so selfish, and instead of that to be realistic... And that's an absolutely obvious problem! Some says that ATEOT is uninspired - OK, but for me that's the album that made me really a BG fan...So what's the problem: the album, or our different tastes ??!!! Some says that the best songs from BTRM are Prophecies, The Throne, Holy Grail and the rest is uninspired...so, OK, I agree with those 3 songs, but saying the rest in uninspired??? Is that really possible instead of the fact that - for example - At The Edge Of Time song is just absolutely blowing away everything else in this album and in their career to me??? So, what I want to say is that there's just moments when we have to be honest and agree that if there's something that we don't like, it doesn't mean it's uninspired...just means it's different from the direction we prefer... To me BG are absolutely perfect right now, with all these classical stuff and I prefer their orchestral songs for sure...and I really like less songs like Tanelorn, Ride Into Obsession and so on...but I would never say they are uninspired, it's the opposite -
they're highly inspired, just not so much to my taste, as their other stuff!!!
So, guys, please, let's just stop being that selfish sometimes... :wink:
Last edited by priderock on 25 Jan 2015 10:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#35 Post by OmegaSlayer » 25 Jan 2015 10:07

Rokubota wrote:I will never understands what people see in ATEOT, because to me that record is by far one of the least ambitious albums in their career. That record was the second coming of ATITM in terms of importance in their discography until the moment when Wheel Of Time plays to save it.

Ride Into Obsesion and Wheel Of Time are the only songs that stood out in that record.

Any song in this new album with the exception of TOTG destroys that album IMHO, no a single doubt in my mind about it. The more I listen to BTRM the more it feels like a new classic to me.

I'm in love with Hansi singing again, that performance in the song At The Edge Of Time is magical man.
There aren't bad songs in ATEOT, except for Wheel Of Time, which is all smoke, because if you remove the orchestra it's very lame.
It has a very low number of riffs and that medioriental vibe is sooo run of the mill it hurts.
It seems that even Hansi hates Valkyries, but I think that song is better than The Ninth Wave, Twilight Of The Gods, At The Edge Of Time, Ashes Of Eternity, Grand Parade.
Even A Voice In The Dark is much better than most of the songs I mentioned.
And even A Twist In The Myth is better than this record.
Which is not bad, and COULD have totally been a masterpiece.

The point is that you first make good song, then add all the bells and whistles to make it better.
There are moments when they were too ambitious and tried to be much bigger than they are.

Now, the premise to what I say is that BG are my favourite band (and still are anyway with this record) but I must be honest.
One thing that many don't get is that BG is a band of average musicians with fairly limited music theory knowledge.
I tell you more, Marcus is a more skilled guitarist than André, every guitarist got that from a long time, you just need to watch Marcus' right hand.
I don't know how many times in every record they recicle the same pattern on the Phrygian mode (root, 2nd, minor 3rd).
But those areas in which they are lacking is compensated with excellent musical taste and easiness to make great hooks.
Sincerely I thought that after And Then There Was Silence, the guy could do everything, but I realize it had been either a luck shot and/or something that gave them too much self confidence.
My first concerns about it being a luck shot realized when they butchered ANATO with the remaster.
It's not a sacrilege in my book to remix/rework an album, but it makes my spider senses tingle when they touch what was ok, because it means that they didn't get what make that record and those songs special.
They want to surprise at all costs with those section out of the left field.
I started to call them "steaks at a vegan meal".
Sections that aren't bad by any mean, they just feel disjointed from the mood of the song.
Your ear gets used to them after many listenings, but that doesn't mean it's a logical step for the songs.
Those started in NIME, where they had meaning because of the Light and Dark concept but where not forced.
Then they kept going with that concept in ANATO, where they added chorus with very dark sad vibes (Precious Jerusalem, Under The Ice) which imho fit their music even if they were harder to assimilate.
On the other side they started with the flowery field too happy choruses, like in Battlefield and The Soulforged; those choruses are grand, but not epic.
While Battlefield is one of the best song BG ever made, but could have had a much more hooky and epic chorus hen I heard Soulforged the first time I was...kind of destroyed.
The song was very cool, then it came the chorus...I was like WTF, this has nothing to do with the Raistlin Majere character.
Then ATITM, which is way underrated.
The record is absolutely solid, simple, no frills, dark, not a masterpiece but with very good ideas.
Still it has a common problem with ANATO and ATEOT which is that BG start to find hard to make fast songs.
Because usually what BG do well is write songs.
Even long songs, but stuff that people enjoy to sing out loud.
Valhalla is by no means a better song than Holy Grail, but singing Valhalla makes you feel like you're going to crush the World, Holy Grail is better written and composed but lacks the soul of Valhalla.

BG must find back their soul and put it into the song.
For me there's a solution, and it is to stop stacking elements for a record or 2 and be back to be the 4 bards of Krefeld in the original formation that had some balance in the decisions that it doesn't have anymore.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#36 Post by Greektrooper » 25 Jan 2015 10:55

priderock wrote:I'm sorry guys, but I absolutely cannot agree with you!!!.....................So, guys, please, let's just stop being that selfish sometimes... :wink:
While I can't say I disagree with you, it seems you missed the point of my post. My biggest issues with the band is A) the producer and B) why they just don't try something more straight forward in their regular disc and leave all the experiments for the orchestral one? By meaning straight forward I don't mean a second Valhalla as you wrote. I mean an ATEOT album which they manage somehow to marriage the speed that Voice,Ride and Tanelorn had with the epic element of Wheel. In Beyond it seems like we have the opposite. Even the ballad is by far worse than War of the Thrones.Sacred Mind everytime I give it a try I just can't wait it is over! ATEOT I forgot it earlier, it has some good elements indeed. I don't know.......I must admit I'm still a little bit frozen about the album.One is for sure,it needs many many hearings.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#37 Post by priderock » 25 Jan 2015 11:12

Greektrooper wrote:
priderock wrote:I'm sorry guys, but I absolutely cannot agree with you!!!.....................So, guys, please, let's just stop being that selfish sometimes... :wink:
While I can't say I disagree with you, it seems you missed the point of my post. My biggest issues with the band is A) the producer and B) why they just don't try something more straight forward in their regular disc and leave all the experiments for the orchestral one? By meaning straight forward I don't mean a second Valhalla as you wrote. I mean an ATEOT album which they manage somehow to marriage the speed that Voice,Ride and Tanelorn had with the epic element of Wheel. In Beyond it seems like we have the opposite. Even the ballad is by far worse than War of the Thrones.Sacred Mind everytime I give it a try I just can't wait it is over! ATEOT I forgot it earlier, it has some good elements indeed. I don't know.......I must admit I'm still a little bit frozen about the album.One is for sure,it needs many many hearings.

Ok, I'm sorry if I was little too hard with my previous post! What I can say is that I agree with you about the fact that there really is something more in the ATEOT approach that maybe was supposed to continue somehow in this album, and I'm also a little disappointed that it didn't...I still think that the album might become a masterpiece, but as you said, it really needs a lot of hearings.., it's still too early for me! But I really like that they tried to be innovative and creative - something that I really respect! And -once again- to me this time it worked perfectly in its best in ATEOT song. I agree with you a little bit about Sacred Mind, I mean I can't say that I can't wait to finish(that would be too much :mrgreen: ), but maybe I don't like just the fact that the chorus is always the same, it's not refreshing itself somehow...But even this fact, I have to say that this song(along with The Ninth Wave) have the best beginnings in the album to me :) As for the ballad, I don't know why, but I like it as almost as I like the Bards song - it's really awesome to me :)

As for the producer, I have to say that as far as I can hear the orchestras and the vocals so clear, I would be more than happy, but that's my opinion...Seriously, I think it's a great job for the way BG wanted to sound and I like it.
Last edited by priderock on 25 Jan 2015 11:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#38 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 25 Jan 2015 11:26

While I am still refraining from giving an elaborate review myself until I have the earbook in my hands with all the lyrics, bonustracks and linernotes... I do wish to chime in on a couple of discussions here...

In general I disagree with a lot of you guys here. I already think this is one of their best cd's ever, if not THE best. While listening to the leak on my iPod, with pretty good headphones, I can make out a lot of details, and I can sense the glue that holds everything together. Sure, not all tracks are songs in the catchy sing-along sense, but they are GREAT examples of storytelling, which to me has always been what the band is all about.
There has been a lot of bashing on production and in particular the drumming. I don't pretend to know anything technical about any of this, however I do know whether or not I find something interesting enough. And to me the drumming is very far from disturbing me. I can't find the soullessness that people are talking about. BG never had superspectacular drumming, except perhaps on Anato, but the music to me doesn't require it either, just like the Bass, while an integral part to the rythm section, not really the part that has to stand out. And I think the productional choices made by the band with Charlie reflect that, it reflects what the band considers most important.
Also, I agree wholeheartedly with priderock, calling something you don't like uninspired is quite harsh. If this album would have been a blatant IFTOS clone, THEN we could call it uninspired. However the fact that the band is ambitious and always tries to do something new is a clear sign of an inspired band. And yeah, experiments can fail, however a failed experiment is a far cry from something that was uninspired.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#39 Post by OmegaSlayer » 25 Jan 2015 11:34

Greektrooper wrote:
priderock wrote: While I can't say I disagree with you, it seems you missed the point of my post. My biggest issues with the band is A) the producer and B) why they just don't try something more straight forward in their regular disc and leave all the experiments for the orchestral one? By meaning straight forward I don't mean a second Valhalla as you wrote. I mean an ATEOT album which they manage somehow to marriage the speed that Voice,Ride and Tanelorn had with the epic element of Wheel. In Beyond it seems like we have the opposite. Even the ballad is by far worse than War of the Thrones.Sacred Mind everytime I give it a try I just can't wait it is over! ATEOT I forgot it earlier, it has some good elements indeed. I don't know.......I must admit I'm still a little bit frozen about the album.One is for sure,it needs many many hearings.
They're not able to write fast songs anymore.
They simply don't bite anymore.
They need bells and whistles to make them shine, while before 2 guitars, a very simple bass guitar that was often even buried and a drum were enough to make a masterpiece.
That should tell you guys something.

And one more thing...a masterpiece is a masterpiece from day 1.
If it becomes a masterpiece after many listenings it's just a great record you get used to.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#40 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 25 Jan 2015 11:56

Considering that I have always preferred their more epic sound, especially in their slower and mid-tempo songs including the so-called bells and whistles...

I do agree on masterpieces from day one. Most songs on this album had me hooked from the start, so I think for me it really IS a masterpiece...

If I were to utter criticism at this point I'd complain about the fact that Hansi sadly tries to regress his singing by using a harsher voice again, which in itself isn't disturbing, but imo he truly shines when he doesn't try to sound like he did on IFTOS. The bite and agressiveness some of you are talking about are imo the weaker elements in today's BG.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#41 Post by priderock » 25 Jan 2015 12:04

OmegaSlayer wrote:
Greektrooper wrote:
priderock wrote: While I can't say I disagree with you, it seems you missed the point of my post. My biggest issues with the band is A) the producer and B) why they just don't try something more straight forward in their regular disc and leave all the experiments for the orchestral one? By meaning straight forward I don't mean a second Valhalla as you wrote. I mean an ATEOT album which they manage somehow to marriage the speed that Voice,Ride and Tanelorn had with the epic element of Wheel. In Beyond it seems like we have the opposite. Even the ballad is by far worse than War of the Thrones.Sacred Mind everytime I give it a try I just can't wait it is over! ATEOT I forgot it earlier, it has some good elements indeed. I don't know.......I must admit I'm still a little bit frozen about the album.One is for sure,it needs many many hearings.
They're not able to write fast songs anymore.
They simply don't bite anymore.
They need bells and whistles to make them shine, while before 2 guitars, a very simple bass guitar that was often even buried and a drum were enough to make a masterpiece.

That should tell you guys something.

And one more thing...a masterpiece is a masterpiece from day 1.
If it becomes a masterpiece after many listenings it's just a great record you get used to.

You serious!!! You're really gonna say this???
First of all - THANKS GOD they need bells, violins, whistles and so on...to shine! Finally an interesting music!!! Secondly - even Valhalla I didn't liked on my first listening back in the days....
You have some point, but to me this is not something that can be said to BG...Their music is really difficult, and it's absolutely normal when something is difficult to fit just harder in our brain, it needs just more time...we're humans, we're not machines at the end...we just need time sometimes, it's normal :)
And as someone said before, the longer it will take, the longer it will stay(or something like that)...
For example - I started to love Wheel Of Time around the first months of 2012, but I just couldn't stop listening to this song at that time...but before that(for almost 2 years) it was something mediocre for me! But if you ask me for the opinion of this song right now - maybe I'll need 2-3 hours to describe it! :)

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#42 Post by bestpike » 25 Jan 2015 12:22

OmegaSlayer wrote:
They're not able to write fast songs anymore.

Are you kidding?
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#43 Post by t.a.j. » 25 Jan 2015 13:35

Valhalla is by no means a better song than Holy Grail, but singing Valhalla makes you feel like you're going to crush the World, Holy Grail is better written and composed but lacks the soul of Valhalla.
There's very much something to this. Until ANATO (though to a degree already on NIME), while the songs tended to be less complex, with less going on at any one time, they each had their own character, a distinctive songiness, something about how everything fit together with those particular vocal lines and words. For the second half of their career, they have reused many tricks many times, there's always the diddly part, there are always similar progressions, the choirs and choruses start to flow into each other, in short: the songs feel to me less like songs (as has been mentioned, even to sing along to, to feel as, well, bard's tales ;) ) and more like attempts at pieces and as such they fail massively. While there are decent songs and good parts on every record since ANATO, there's hasn't been a really good song on any of them. And even ANATO had only a handful (Battlefield, Under The Ice, ATTWS) and those probably only because all those reused parts hadn't been reused all that much by then.

In short: New BG, with all their prog/symphonic pretension is playing at a game they're not too good at.
In comparison, take Ayreon. Arjen Lucassen is really good what he does (just listen to The Human Equation and Into The Electric Castle), but even as good as Arjen is, Ayreon have also long since begun to suffer from that same problem: it's just so much rehash, formulaic and shallow.

Finally, though ATITM was imnsho a very weak album, I think there's something to the notion that it had strengths that the latter two albums lacked: it's very simplicity. But maybe the fact that even this simplicity didn't make for good songs goes to show that whatever made the early stuff so charismatic and engaging has been lost for good during the ANATO period.
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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#44 Post by bestpike » 25 Jan 2015 14:18

t.a.j. wrote:
Valhalla is by no means a better song than Holy Grail, but singing Valhalla makes you feel like you're going to crush the World, Holy Grail is better written and composed but lacks the soul of Valhalla.
There's very much something to this. Until ANATO (though to a degree already on NIME), while the songs tended to be less complex, with less going on at any one time, they each had their own character, a distinctive songiness, something about how everything fit together with those particular vocal lines and words. For the second half of their career, they have reused many tricks many times, there's always the diddly part, there are always similar progressions, the choirs and choruses start to flow into each other, in short: the songs feel to me less like songs (as has been mentioned, even to sing along to, to feel as, well, bard's tales ;) ) and more like attempts at pieces and as such they fail massively. While there are decent songs and good parts on every record since ANATO, there's hasn't been a really good song on any of them. And even ANATO had only a handful (Battlefield, Under The Ice, ATTWS) and those probably only because all those reused parts hadn't been reused all that much by then.

In short: New BG, with all their prog/symphonic pretension is playing at a game they're not too good at.
In comparison, take Ayreon. Arjen Lucassen is really good what he does (just listen to The Human Equation and Into The Electric Castle), but even as good as Arjen is, Ayreon have also long since begun to suffer from that same problem: it's just so much rehash, formulaic and shallow.

Finally, though ATITM was imnsho a very weak album, I think there's something to the notion that it had strengths that the latter two albums lacked: it's very simplicity. But maybe the fact that even this simplicity didn't make for good songs goes to show that whatever made the early stuff so charismatic and engaging has been lost for good during the ANATO period.
Lots of exaggeration at best, especially the quote "While there are decent songs and good parts on every record since ANATO, there's hasn't been a really good song on any of them." I'll just use a couple of songs. Is Fly and Another Stranger Me not some of the best, most unique, and least derivative songs in BG's discography?
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#45 Post by ErHaO » 25 Jan 2015 16:38

t.a.j. wrote:
Valhalla is by no means a better song than Holy Grail, but singing Valhalla makes you feel like you're going to crush the World, Holy Grail is better written and composed but lacks the soul of Valhalla.
There's very much something to this. Until ANATO (though to a degree already on NIME), while the songs tended to be less complex, with less going on at any one time, they each had their own character, a distinctive songiness, something about how everything fit together with those particular vocal lines and words. For the second half of their career, they have reused many tricks many times, there's always the diddly part, there are always similar progressions, the choirs and choruses start to flow into each other, in short: the songs feel to me less like songs (as has been mentioned, even to sing along to, to feel as, well, bard's tales ;) ) and more like attempts at pieces and as such they fail massively. While there are decent songs and good parts on every record since ANATO, there's hasn't been a really good song on any of them. And even ANATO had only a handful (Battlefield, Under The Ice, ATTWS) and those probably only because all those reused parts hadn't been reused all that much by then.

In short: New BG, with all their prog/symphonic pretension is playing at a game they're not too good at.
In comparison, take Ayreon. Arjen Lucassen is really good what he does (just listen to The Human Equation and Into The Electric Castle), but even as good as Arjen is, Ayreon have also long since begun to suffer from that same problem: it's just so much rehash, formulaic and shallow.

Finally, though ATITM was imnsho a very weak album, I think there's something to the notion that it had strengths that the latter two albums lacked: it's very simplicity. But maybe the fact that even this simplicity didn't make for good songs goes to show that whatever made the early stuff so charismatic and engaging has been lost for good during the ANATO period.

I have to disagree with this. First of all, I am a massive progressive rock/metal fan. Moreso than powermetal and the likes. My favourite artists include Jethro Tull (Ian Anderson), Dream Theater, Rush, Arjen Lucassen, Transatlantic, Spocks Beard, Seventh Wonder and many more so I am no stranger to complex and busy arrangements.

I think nearly all BG songs are very well paced, keep introducing fresh elements while not venturing into the "and here another song starts within the same song" territory and always innovate themselves on different aspects (like Rush did many times as well). Offcourse there are reused elements in their music. Nearly every damn song from any artist that is released since god knows when has that. Early BG too, despite having their own sound (which they most definately still have). What matters is how the building blocks are used, how different musical elements come together in a song. And there is simply no song that is anything like ATEOT, Ninth Wave, Miracle Machine and Grand Parade present in their discography as far as I know. Yes, Andre throws in a solo that could be on Nightfall here and there and Hansi throws in some screams he has done before. But that is their signature style and they often apply it fittingly into new musical environments. Each BG album has had a few very distinct ones since their debut. Moreover, each song on this album is quite different from one another, I do not see how one could not hear that. Especially the choruses are refreshing this time around. If you listen past the many uses of choirs, "diddly parts" and other modern BG staples you will discover plenty different nuances in the music unique to the respective song, just like the old days. Andre and Hansi are really pressed on doing that (and succeed in doing so), like they have said many times.

I do not mind people not liking their new music at all. I have the same for many artists (post-Jari Ensiferum, synth era Rush, new In Flames, weird Unia Sonata Arctica are a few examples). But to simply state it because they have no inspiration, "play a game they are not able to" or simply just write bad songs like it is something that you can objectively state seems wrong.
OmegaSlayer wrote: And one more thing...a masterpiece is a masterpiece from day 1.
If it becomes a masterpiece after many listenings it's just a great record you get used to.
This is not true at all. I did not like Human Equation, Scenes From a Memory, Hemispheres, Thick as a Brick, Nightfall In Middle Earth, Mercy Falls, Mezmerize, A Night at the Opera (Queen) the first time I heard them (just stating some all time favourites). And it works for many, many people this way. Especially for more complex arrangements or very unusual ones it can take time from people to adapt to certain pieces. Additionally, state of mind and expectations also have a lot of influence on peoples first impression of a piece (like with basically anything, really) and musical preferences continue to develop troughout your life.
Last edited by ErHaO on 25 Jan 2015 17:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#46 Post by bard_92 » 25 Jan 2015 16:53

ErHaO wrote:
t.a.j. wrote:
Valhalla is by no means a better song than Holy Grail, but singing Valhalla makes you feel like you're going to crush the World, Holy Grail is better written and composed but lacks the soul of Valhalla.
There's very much something to this. Until ANATO (though to a degree already on NIME), while the songs tended to be less complex, with less going on at any one time, they each had their own character, a distinctive songiness, something about how everything fit together with those particular vocal lines and words. For the second half of their career, they have reused many tricks many times, there's always the diddly part, there are always similar progressions, the choirs and choruses start to flow into each other, in short: the songs feel to me less like songs (as has been mentioned, even to sing along to, to feel as, well, bard's tales ;) ) and more like attempts at pieces and as such they fail massively. While there are decent songs and good parts on every record since ANATO, there's hasn't been a really good song on any of them. And even ANATO had only a handful (Battlefield, Under The Ice, ATTWS) and those probably only because all those reused parts hadn't been reused all that much by then.

In short: New BG, with all their prog/symphonic pretension is playing at a game they're not too good at.
In comparison, take Ayreon. Arjen Lucassen is really good what he does (just listen to The Human Equation and Into The Electric Castle), but even as good as Arjen is, Ayreon have also long since begun to suffer from that same problem: it's just so much rehash, formulaic and shallow.

Finally, though ATITM was imnsho a very weak album, I think there's something to the notion that it had strengths that the latter two albums lacked: it's very simplicity. But maybe the fact that even this simplicity didn't make for good songs goes to show that whatever made the early stuff so charismatic and engaging has been lost for good during the ANATO period.

I have to disagree with this. First of all, I am a massive progressive rock/metal fan. Moreso than powermetal and the likes. My favourite artists include Jethro Tull (Ian Anderson), Dream Theater, Rush, Arjen Lucassen, Transatlantic, Spocks Beard, Seventh Wonder and many more so I am no stranger to complex and busy arrangements.

I think nearly all BG songs are very well paced, keep introducing fresh elements while not venturing into the "and here another song starts within the same song" territory and always innovate themselves on different aspects (like Rush did many times as well). Offcourse there are reused elements in their music. Nearly every damn song from any artist that is released since god knows when has that. Early BG too, despite having their own sound (which they most definately still have). What matters is how the building blocks are used, how different musical elements come together in a song. And there is simply no song that is anything like ATEOT, Ninth Wave, Miracle Machine and Grand Parade present in their discography as far as I know. Yes, Andre throws in a solo that could be on Nightfall here and there and Hansi throws in some screams he has done before. But that is their signature style and they often apply it fittingly into new musical environments. Each BG album has had a few very distinct ones since their debut. Moreover, each song on this album is quite different from one another, I do not see how one could not hear that. Especially the choruses are refreshing this time around. If you listen past the many uses of choirs, "diddly parts" and other modern BG staples you will discover plenty different nuances in the music unique to the respective song, just like the old days. Andre and Hansi are really pressed on doing that (and succeed in doing so), like they have said many times.

I do not mind people not liking their new music at all. I have the same for many artists (post-Jari Ensiferum, synth era Rush, new In Flames, weird Unia Sonata Arctica are a few examples). But to simply state it because they have no inspiration, "play a game they are not able to" or simply just write bad songs like it is something that you can objectively state seems wrong.


Thanks for your opinion, man!!! I think it's right into the point :!:

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#47 Post by OmegaSlayer » 25 Jan 2015 17:01

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:Considering that I have always preferred their more epic sound, especially in their slower and mid-tempo songs including the so-called bells and whistles...

I do agree on masterpieces from day one. Most songs on this album had me hooked from the start, so I think for me it really IS a masterpiece...

If I were to utter criticism at this point I'd complain about the fact that Hansi sadly tries to regress his singing by using a harsher voice again, which in itself isn't disturbing, but imo he truly shines when he doesn't try to sound like he did on IFTOS. The bite and agressiveness some of you are talking about are imo the weaker elements in today's BG.
Trust me, we do totally agree on this.
I don't "need" BG fast songs to consider their albums good, and since I think they're not 20 years old anymore, not loving Megadeth and Fates Warning like back in the late 80s/early 90s and not having the guy who wanted speed songs at all costs in the line up, they should stop making fast songs just to please fans.
I'm pleased with good songs, don't care if fast or slow, since I appreciate anything from the slowest doom/drone metal to the fastest black and death metal going through AOR, hard rock, 70s prog and so on.

@bestpike and @priderock
No, I'm not kidding.
BG are making a lot of arrangements, and they're master of it, that's harmony in music theory.
The point is that they're getting stale with melody especially on fast song.
Look, it's clear they don't like to do them anymore and they do it for fan service, in fact they just have 1 or 2 fast song in every album and always say, "it's the fastest yet (not always), fans will be happy and so on".
You know what's the difference between Manowar and Rhapsody when you take out the keyboard/orchestra? None.
This to say that keyboard/orchestra is a layer, but not the song.
Luckily BG has shown that they can write better stuff than Rhapsody (in At The Edge Of Time the song) but they're still quite not there, because they had to put the metal on the side to do it.

About ATITM I take This Will Never End, Otherland and especially Straight To The Mirror every day instead of Fly (indeed experimental and a good song but not spontaneous) and Another Stranger Me (an hard-rockish song that really everyone could write, even Edguy).

Look, they are able to do things no one does, but lately they've not been consistent.
I think they should focus on what they can do well and not force experiments.

The delusion comes from the observation that you listen to a song and say "What this could have been if they didn't botched horribly the chorus or bridge"

I remember an interview by Mekong Delta (insanely good band) in early 90s in which they said: "we were so set on progressing, in experimenting and not making easy stuff, that at the end we didn't understand who we were anymore"
I don't want this to happen to BG.

I don't say they have to write music for the tastes of fans, I think that when they try they don't succeed lately, I want them to focus and realize when elements/melodies/experiments add something to their music or just make it stranger just for the sake of trying to be different

Traveller in Time
Posts: 955
Joined: 02 Sep 2002 19:43

Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#48 Post by Traveller in Time » 25 Jan 2015 17:11

Also, the Grand Parade reminds me of Green Day, both the title (viz The Black Parade), the imagery and the feeling of the song and mostly the combination of those three things.
It's a false friend. The Black parade is a song of My Chemical Romance, but i have to admit they really sound like Green Day
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

User avatar
bestpike
Posts: 1008
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 09:23

Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#49 Post by bestpike » 25 Jan 2015 21:04

OmegaSlayer wrote:
Gandalf de Grijze wrote:Considering that I have always preferred their more epic sound, especially in their slower and mid-tempo songs including the so-called bells and whistles...

I do agree on masterpieces from day one. Most songs on this album had me hooked from the start, so I think for me it really IS a masterpiece...

If I were to utter criticism at this point I'd complain about the fact that Hansi sadly tries to regress his singing by using a harsher voice again, which in itself isn't disturbing, but imo he truly shines when he doesn't try to sound like he did on IFTOS. The bite and agressiveness some of you are talking about are imo the weaker elements in today's BG.
Trust me, we do totally agree on this.
I don't "need" BG fast songs to consider their albums good, and since I think they're not 20 years old anymore, not loving Megadeth and Fates Warning like back in the late 80s/early 90s and not having the guy who wanted speed songs at all costs in the line up, they should stop making fast songs just to please fans.
I'm pleased with good songs, don't care if fast or slow, since I appreciate anything from the slowest doom/drone metal to the fastest black and death metal going through AOR, hard rock, 70s prog and so on.

@bestpike and @priderock
No, I'm not kidding.
BG are making a lot of arrangements, and they're master of it, that's harmony in music theory.
The point is that they're getting stale with melody especially on fast song.
Look, it's clear they don't like to do them anymore and they do it for fan service, in fact they just have 1 or 2 fast song in every album and always say, "it's the fastest yet (not always), fans will be happy and so on".
You know what's the difference between Manowar and Rhapsody when you take out the keyboard/orchestra? None.
This to say that keyboard/orchestra is a layer, but not the song.
Luckily BG has shown that they can write better stuff than Rhapsody (in At The Edge Of Time the song) but they're still quite not there, because they had to put the metal on the side to do it.

About ATITM I take This Will Never End, Otherland and especially Straight To The Mirror every day instead of Fly (indeed experimental and a good song but not spontaneous) and Another Stranger Me (an hard-rockish song that really everyone could write, even Edguy).

Look, they are able to do things no one does, but lately they've not been consistent.
I think they should focus on what they can do well and not force experiments.

The delusion comes from the observation that you listen to a song and say "What this could have been if they didn't botched horribly the chorus or bridge"

I remember an interview by Mekong Delta (insanely good band) in early 90s in which they said: "we were so set on progressing, in experimenting and not making easy stuff, that at the end we didn't understand who we were anymore"
I don't want this to happen to BG.

I don't say they have to write music for the tastes of fans, I think that when they try they don't succeed lately, I want them to focus and realize when elements/melodies/experiments add something to their music or just make it stranger just for the sake of trying to be different
Our opinions are so far removed from each other that we can't even conclude somewhere before the second coming of Christ. And I'm not religious :). But your opinion is respected.
Now I'm riding through the air
Going to where no one dares
On the way I cross the line forevermore.
For once in life, I do not care
Nothing matters, now I dare
On the ride I'll cross the line
Forever to be free

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: 'BEYOND THE RED MIRROR'- Your Reviews

#50 Post by OmegaSlayer » 25 Jan 2015 21:23

bestpike wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:
Our opinions are so far removed from each other that we can't even conclude somewhere before the second coming of Christ. And I'm not religious :). But your opinion is respected.
Always respect from my side too :D

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