Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

All talk about Blind Guardian, including discussion about tour dates, etc.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
floidmoon
Posts: 11
Joined: 03 Oct 2009 22:30

Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#1 Post by floidmoon » 10 Jan 2015 21:51

Well, after appearance of A Voice in the Dark I had this filing but I couldn't zero on the problem. I just listened to Twilight of the Gods and finally realize what it is.

Before I say anything more You have to know I love BG music more than anything. Keep that in mind and note, I love to see BG developing and trying new directions, it was always great to see how they improve with each new peace of music they wrote.

First album with Fredrik was amazing. At first I couldn't get it but after few days I sunk in into every song on the album. But it was not the case with next album, A Voice in the Dark. I can't listen to it and I couldn't know why, even now, after few years.

So why? Now I'm sure it's about drums. At The Twist of the Myth Fredrik done splendid and I love it. But from the next album something happened. Some kind of simplicity sneak into writing and most of the cool stuff he did on the previous album was gone. As if some one told him he can't use most of his tricks. What is even more important sound of drums lost it's dynamics. Great variety of Fredirk's play was gone as if some one used a machine playing each note exactly the same way and only few figures. As if there was no human in the studio playing drums any more. Before that Fredrik's play wasn't predictable, was full of dynamics, accents, different sounds and fine ideas.

It's just how I feel, had to write it, maybe it will reach Fredrik who already gave us The Twist of the Myth and help him to find his way back.

Love You BG, including Fredrik.

Edit:
One more though: BG was never about simple things, your music was different from many more because (in my opinion) You didn't try to reach as many ppl as You can, by making Your music simple.
I'm not sorry for my bad English!

drummer88
Posts: 52
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 13:10

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#2 Post by drummer88 » 11 Jan 2015 03:37

Yeah, regarding frederiks performance I completly agree with you. I coul never understand why so many people said that his drumming improved on ateot. For me it was also a big step backwards. Atitm was full of different and cool fills but since ateot it's the same patterns over and over again. Even in the trailer for btrm he seems to use the same patterns again. I have the feeling that he gets limited by andre because he once said that everybody hss to stick to his compositions with just little space for other ideas.
Besided this I really love the last record ;)

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#3 Post by OmegaSlayer » 11 Jan 2015 08:58

You know, there's only one BG drummer.
I accepted Frederik, though I don't like his style, and would have appreciated that the Hansi, André and Marcus hired him as a session like Oliver and Michael (that had been in the band for ages).
That was the most stupid thing BG did and something I'll never forgive him.
Without Thomen the "4 bards of Krefeld" thing has no meaning anymore.

About Frederik again...Thomen was the guy that together with Dan Zimmerman changed how you play drum in power metal during the late 90s early 2000.
Thomen is unreplaceable, and it's not only skills, it's the power, ideas and taste.

I miss Thomen so much.

bard_92
Posts: 305
Joined: 20 Jan 2012 21:51

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#4 Post by bard_92 » 11 Jan 2015 09:46

OmegaSlayer wrote:You know, there's only one BG drummer.
I accepted Frederik, though I don't like his style, and would have appreciated that the Hansi, André and Marcus hired him as a session like Oliver and Michael (that had been in the band for ages).
That was the most stupid thing BG did and something I'll never forgive him.
Without Thomen the "4 bards of Krefeld" thing has no meaning anymore.

About Frederik again...Thomen was the guy that together with Dan Zimmerman changed how you play drum in power metal during the late 90s early 2000.
Thomen is unreplaceable, and it's not only skills, it's the power, ideas and taste.

I miss Thomen so much.

I think you don't have to miss Thomen! I mean that if he was not inspired by BG music than it was impossible to him to give his best and his creativity, so I don't think that the drums patterns were going to be better ;)

Guardian'86
Posts: 42
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 18:25

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#5 Post by Guardian'86 » 11 Jan 2015 13:50

I totally agree with all of you. Hopefully on the next album we should hear something new and complex in terms of drumming too.

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#6 Post by OmegaSlayer » 11 Jan 2015 15:28

bard_92 wrote: I think you don't have to miss Thomen! I mean that if he was not inspired by BG music than it was impossible to him to give his best and his creativity, so I don't think that the drums patterns were going to be better ;)
I never bite to PR like they're the absolute truth.
I always pair the PR with facts.
I don't see good blood running between Thomen and Hansi/André from the latter speeches.
I don't really think it was a friendly departure and that's what sucks most.
It's a no win situation.
ATIT wasn't very well received and BG backpedaled from it with ATEOT and Savage Circus were labelled as too BG derivative.
I think there was still space for Thomen despite the stubborness of both parts.

The BG guys are not monsters on their instruments, but the mix of personality those 4 guys have worked.
Now something in the mix is missing and people subtly gets it.
It's easier to replace a skilled guy with no personality than a guy who is average but has less personality.

Thomen arms and legs can be replicated but not his head.
My late band's drummer could play Thomen stuff when he was 15 (he had been playing drums since he was 7), but in no way he could come up with interesting patterns and fills like Thomen did even at 20.

Same with Frederik, he has the skills to replicate Thomen, he has good ideas here and there, but he's simply not Thomen.

We accept Frederik, but it's stupid to force in yourself the idea of "not missing Thomen".

I, as a fan from 1992, refuse to pay a ticket and see BG live without Thomen.
And if you compare the live pieces you find online, there's a big difference.

BG are still my favourite band, but the magic is someway gone.

bard_92
Posts: 305
Joined: 20 Jan 2012 21:51

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#7 Post by bard_92 » 11 Jan 2015 15:52

OmegaSlayer wrote:
bard_92 wrote: I think you don't have to miss Thomen! I mean that if he was not inspired by BG music than it was impossible to him to give his best and his creativity, so I don't think that the drums patterns were going to be better ;)
I never bite to PR like they're the absolute truth.
I always pair the PR with facts.
I don't see good blood running between Thomen and Hansi/André from the latter speeches.
I don't really think it was a friendly departure and that's what sucks most.
It's a no win situation.
ATIT wasn't very well received and BG backpedaled from it with ATEOT and Savage Circus were labelled as too BG derivative.
I think there was still space for Thomen despite the stubborness of both parts.

The BG guys are not monsters on their instruments, but the mix of personality those 4 guys have worked.
Now something in the mix is missing and people subtly gets it.
It's easier to replace a skilled guy with no personality than a guy who is average but has less personality.

Thomen arms and legs can be replicated but not his head.
My late band's drummer could play Thomen stuff when he was 15 (he had been playing drums since he was 7), but in no way he could come up with interesting patterns and fills like Thomen did even at 20.

Same with Frederik, he has the skills to replicate Thomen, he has good ideas here and there, but he's simply not Thomen.

We accept Frederik, but it's stupid to force in yourself the idea of "not missing Thomen".

I, as a fan from 1992, refuse to pay a ticket and see BG live without Thomen.
And if you compare the live pieces you find online, there's a big difference.

BG are still my favourite band, but the magic is someway gone.

Ok, I agree you have some points! :)
Maybe it's just not that big deal to me, cause always my favourite in their music was the vocal constructions and adventures :mrgreen:

User avatar
floidmoon
Posts: 11
Joined: 03 Oct 2009 22:30

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#8 Post by floidmoon » 12 Jan 2015 12:17

Please don't make it topic about "mising Thomen" cuz it wasn't suppose to be one of those and I think it's not right or appropriate to make them (any more). Times of Thomen will not return and there is no point in brining it back. It's about Fredirk now and as a musician and producer I already know he is perfect for BG. It's obvious he plays different from Thomen and one should expect it to be different. As a musician of our beloved band Fredrik deserves our support and critique.

The issue is about what changed between writings to The Twist of the Myth and next albums. Is it about he's personal approach or something he was forced to do. What happened to dynamics of his play and variety or ideas he brought to BG. And I know we can't expect form metal drummer play jazz groove but still something is missing. I'm writing it again, it's about two different Fredrik's, the live one with sense of dynamics and the machine beating the shit out of snare drum ;)

What is more important this post is more of an open letter to all guys from Blind Guardian than attempt of discussion on the matter.
I'm not sorry for my bad English!

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#9 Post by OmegaSlayer » 12 Jan 2015 12:59

floidmoon wrote:Please don't make it topic about "mising Thomen" cuz it wasn't suppose to be one of those and I think it's not right or appropriate to make them (any more). Times of Thomen will not return and there is no point in brining it back. It's about Fredirk now and as a musician and producer I already know he is perfect for BG. It's obvious he plays different from Thomen and one should expect it to be different. As a musician of our beloved band Fredrik deserves our support and critique.

The issue is about what changed between writings to The Twist of the Myth and next albums. Is it about he's personal approach or something he was forced to do. What happened to dynamics of his play and variety or ideas he brought to BG. And I know we can't expect form metal drummer play jazz groove but still something is missing. I'm writing it again, it's about two different Fredrik's, the live one with sense of dynamics and the machine beating the shit out of snare drum ;)

What is more important this post is more of an open letter to all guys from Blind Guardian than attempt of discussion on the matter.
When you open a topic you must be aware of the direction it can take.
It's immature to not be aware or ask for it to go the direction you want.
Your "as a musician and producer I already know he is perfect for BG" is just an opinion.
In my "musician, producer and loooong time fan" opinion, Frederik is inadequate and doesn't bring anything other drummers can bring to the BG sound.

I also address your 2 points while I'm here.
Scenario A- He plays what the other planned him to do like a machine.
It means that he has no personality, he has no voice in the band, so he doesn't bring his character on stuff, and should be just credited as guest.
A band needs a dose of tension and friction to get better and to strive to outperform themselves.

Scenario B- He doesn't come up with interesting stuff by himself.

Dunno which one is worse, but we got one of this 2 scenario.

And that's why I love BG that I won't ever stop to say that losing Thomen is the worst mistake they made in their career.

sciacallo010
Posts: 181
Joined: 30 Aug 2013 17:08
Location: Stockholm, Sweden/ Milan, Italy

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#10 Post by sciacallo010 » 13 Jan 2015 01:08

OmegaSlayer wrote: When you open a topic you must be aware of the direction it can take.
It's immature to not be aware or ask for it to go the direction you want.
If he opens a topic on a certain argument people writing in it should follow it, otherwise they go off-topic; it's not a matter of maturity.
OmegaSlayer wrote: I don't see good blood running between Thomen and Hansi/André from the latter speeches.
I don't really think it was a friendly departure and that's what sucks most.
It's a no win situation.
ATIT wasn't very well received and BG backpedaled from it with ATEOT and Savage Circus were labelled as too BG derivative.
I think there was still space for Thomen despite the stubborness of both parts.
I don't agree here.
As for what I've seen and read from the interviews and from what I talked with them about they are still in good relationship (and why shouldn't they?).
The first Savage Circus (I haven't listened to the second one yet) is very similar to a BG album (not that it's a bad thing, at least to me) but to Somewhere or Imaginations; BG, instead, want to constantly evolve their sound, so while Thomen is still capable to came out with good BG/Imaginations-style songs, he doesn't like to evolve beyond a certain point where the Bards have gone and want to go.
I prefer them both (the Bards and Thomen) to follow each the way they like the most and not to be forced one by the other to do things they don't like (and maybe uninspired).

Regarding Fredrik's drumming I may agree that he's not the most creative drummer, yet I don't really dislike his work; we also have to consider that, whatever is his skill, being compared to Thomen is something that many and many drummers couldn't stand.

User avatar
Edain
Posts: 601
Joined: 12 Apr 2004 15:34
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#11 Post by Edain » 22 Jan 2015 14:44

I don't agree here.
As for what I've seen and read from the interviews and from what I talked with them about they are still in good relationship (and why shouldn't they?).
The first Savage Circus (I haven't listened to the second one yet) is very similar to a BG album (not that it's a bad thing, at least to me) but to Somewhere or Imaginations; BG, instead, want to constantly evolve their sound, so while Thomen is still capable to came out with good BG/Imaginations-style songs, he doesn't like to evolve beyond a certain point where the Bards have gone and want to go.
The weird thing is that his drum patterns on ANATO were incredible - and I just can't comprehend how somebody who dislikes that musical direction would come up with such gorgous ideas. Just listen so Sadly Sings Destiny, Wait for an Answer or The Soulforged - it's so playful and entertaining, I have no idea how he couldn't enjoy this.

To be honest, I don't really understand that amount of praise Thomen gets for his playing - at least for the biggest part of their discography. Most stuff on the albums up to and partially including Nightfall was standard-patterns spiced up with (great) fills. Yes, he is a great drummer and I'd also say he's more creative than Frederik - but the "Fred is bad and Thomen is a god"-shitstorm is way exaggerated. Foremost it's the drumsound that weakens the impact of the past albums.

I also have the impression that the songs on Imaginations and Nightfall were rhytmically more diverse generally - but I could be wrong about this part.
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

User avatar
DREAMASTER
Posts: 298
Joined: 31 May 2003 00:52
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#12 Post by DREAMASTER » 22 Jan 2015 15:24

OmegaSlayer wrote:You know, there's only one BG drummer.
I accepted Frederik, though I don't like his style, and would have appreciated that the Hansi, André and Marcus hired him as a session like Oliver and Michael (that had been in the band for ages).
That was the most stupid thing BG did and something I'll never forgive him.
Without Thomen the "4 bards of Krefeld" thing has no meaning anymore.

About Frederik again...Thomen was the guy that together with Dan Zimmerman changed how you play drum in power metal during the late 90s early 2000.
Thomen is unreplaceable, and it's not only skills, it's the power, ideas and taste.

I miss Thomen so much.


and I add, the feeling.


Plus to add to the problem is Charlie Bauerfiend drums terrible mixing. The drums sound lifeless, artificial, no dynamics.
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

User avatar
DREAMASTER
Posts: 298
Joined: 31 May 2003 00:52
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#13 Post by DREAMASTER » 22 Jan 2015 15:36

OmegaSlayer wrote:
bard_92 wrote: I think you don't have to miss Thomen! I mean that if he was not inspired by BG music than it was impossible to him to give his best and his creativity, so I don't think that the drums patterns were going to be better ;)
I never bite to PR like they're the absolute truth.
I always pair the PR with facts.
I don't see good blood running between Thomen and Hansi/André from the latter speeches.
I don't really think it was a friendly departure and that's what sucks most.
It's a no win situation.
ATIT wasn't very well received and BG backpedaled from it with ATEOT and Savage Circus were labelled as too BG derivative.
I think there was still space for Thomen despite the stubborness of both parts.

The BG guys are not monsters on their instruments, but the mix of personality those 4 guys have worked.
Now something in the mix is missing and people subtly gets it.
It's easier to replace a skilled guy with no personality than a guy who is average but has less personality.

Thomen arms and legs can be replicated but not his head.
My late band's drummer could play Thomen stuff when he was 15 (he had been playing drums since he was 7), but in no way he could come up with interesting patterns and fills like Thomen did even at 20.

Same with Frederik, he has the skills to replicate Thomen, he has good ideas here and there, but he's simply not Thomen.

We accept Frederik, but it's stupid to force in yourself the idea of "not missing Thomen".

I, as a fan from 1992, refuse to pay a ticket and see BG live without Thomen.
And if you compare the live pieces you find online, there's a big difference.

BG are still my favourite band, but the magic is someway gone.

I agree with you in some points.

Yes part of the magic is gone but for me Charlie mixing and amstering work is not helping either. Good songs are almost ruined by is bad work. He can be a good producer helping the band woth the songs and ideas but is engineer work is really band. Just listen to the other bands albums that is has mixed and mastered. All ruined.

And how can the band listen to the final mixing and mastering and like to hear their work ruined?! This is something I can't figure it out.


I leave here a video of Frederik band Sinbreed. Listen to the power and good sound of the drums and his drum work and then ask yourself why that doesn't happens in the BG albums?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS1aQSSb5M
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

User avatar
DREAMASTER
Posts: 298
Joined: 31 May 2003 00:52
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#14 Post by DREAMASTER » 22 Jan 2015 15:58

Edain wrote:
I don't agree here.
As for what I've seen and read from the interviews and from what I talked with them about they are still in good relationship (and why shouldn't they?).
The first Savage Circus (I haven't listened to the second one yet) is very similar to a BG album (not that it's a bad thing, at least to me) but to Somewhere or Imaginations; BG, instead, want to constantly evolve their sound, so while Thomen is still capable to came out with good BG/Imaginations-style songs, he doesn't like to evolve beyond a certain point where the Bards have gone and want to go.
Foremost it's the drumsound that weakens the impact of the past albums.

The drums sound in the Thomen era are more powerful and dynamic than the drums sound of Frederik era that sound weak, lifeless , artificial and no dynamics.
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

arenamaster
Posts: 227
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 02:44
Location: The Mourning Hall(United States)
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#15 Post by arenamaster » 22 Jan 2015 17:07

Edain wrote:
I don't agree here.
As for what I've seen and read from the interviews and from what I talked with them about they are still in good relationship (and why shouldn't they?).
The first Savage Circus (I haven't listened to the second one yet) is very similar to a BG album (not that it's a bad thing, at least to me) but to Somewhere or Imaginations; BG, instead, want to constantly evolve their sound, so while Thomen is still capable to came out with good BG/Imaginations-style songs, he doesn't like to evolve beyond a certain point where the Bards have gone and want to go.
The weird thing is that his drum patterns on ANATO were incredible - and I just can't comprehend how somebody who dislikes that musical direction would come up with such gorgous ideas. Just listen so Sadly Sings Destiny, Wait for an Answer or The Soulforged - it's so playful and entertaining, I have no idea how he couldn't enjoy this.
Right? ANATO is easily the best drumming of his entire career.
Each step I take,
May it hurt may it ache
Leads me further
Away from the past!
But as long as I breathe,
Each smile in my bleak face,
I'm on my way to find
Back to the peace of mind!

thanandar
Posts: 6
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 02:25

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#16 Post by thanandar » 22 Jan 2015 18:31

I'm the first who miss Thomen, his progression was incredible ANATO was his masterpiece.
But, every new listen to BTRM, I discover new sections wich sound like Thomen on ANATO, I can hear Under the Ice, Precious Jerusalem, Punishment divine, Age of false innocence.

Listened to Ashes of Eternity guys!! ITS THOMEN!

User avatar
t.a.j.
Posts: 1459
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 23:29
Location: where ignorant armies clash by night
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#17 Post by t.a.j. » 23 Jan 2015 15:14

DREAMASTER wrote: I leave here a video of Frederik band Sinbreed. Listen to the power and good sound of the drums and his drum work and then ask yourself why that doesn't happens in the BG albums?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS1aQSSb5M
The drums, apart from bass drum and snare are barely audible, there's not much happening beyond just very flat patterns to drive the guitars and the patterns themselves are pretty boring. I've tuned out after the chorus, but if verse, bridge and chorus are boring there's not much left to save...

The only good thing about that song was the singer, who apart from the botched scream did a very good job, powerful, clear, precise and passionate.

As for the drum sound on ATITM: Everything on the record sounded like the aural equivalent of cheap plastic, neither powerful, nor organic, nor dynamic, just dead.
http://www.gedichtblog.de
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway.
They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret...


Still the goddamn Batman.

User avatar
DREAMASTER
Posts: 298
Joined: 31 May 2003 00:52
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#18 Post by DREAMASTER » 23 Jan 2015 16:01

t.a.j. wrote:
DREAMASTER wrote: I leave here a video of Frederik band Sinbreed. Listen to the power and good sound of the drums and his drum work and then ask yourself why that doesn't happens in the BG albums?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS1aQSSb5M
The drums, apart from bass drum and snare are barely audible, there's not much happening beyond just very flat patterns to drive the guitars and the patterns themselves are pretty boring. I've tuned out after the chorus, but if verse, bridge and chorus are boring there's not much left to save...

The only good thing about that song was the singer, who apart from the botched scream did a very good job, powerful, clear, precise and passionate.

As for the drum sound on ATITM: Everything on the record sounded like the aural equivalent of cheap plastic, neither powerful, nor organic, nor dynamic, just dead.

Well here im my cheap hi-fi, I can hear everything played in the drums in that Sinbreed song.

And yeah, the drums in ATITM sound bad but surprisingly not has bad as in the new album.
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

ari
Posts: 34
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 17:07
Location: Melbourne

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#19 Post by ari » 10 Feb 2015 14:41

DREAMASTER wrote:
t.a.j. wrote:
DREAMASTER wrote: I leave here a video of Frederik band Sinbreed. Listen to the power and good sound of the drums and his drum work and then ask yourself why that doesn't happens in the BG albums?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS1aQSSb5M
The drums, apart from bass drum and snare are barely audible, there's not much happening beyond just very flat patterns to drive the guitars and the patterns themselves are pretty boring. I've tuned out after the chorus, but if verse, bridge and chorus are boring there's not much left to save...

The only good thing about that song was the singer, who apart from the botched scream did a very good job, powerful, clear, precise and passionate.

As for the drum sound on ATITM: Everything on the record sounded like the aural equivalent of cheap plastic, neither powerful, nor organic, nor dynamic, just dead.

Well here im my cheap hi-fi, I can hear everything played in the drums in that Sinbreed song.

And yeah, the drums in ATITM sound bad but surprisingly not has bad as in the new album.
On my good hifi and headphones the whole sound on the last 3 albums has gotten better...ATITM was just dark and lifeless, ATEOT was noticeably better, and BTRM is the best. Definite tonal differences in the drum fills, guitar mix is good. Only a few weird cut/paste sections. It's interesting how so many that like ATITM don't like ANATO and vice versa.

It's definitely Charlie though IMO, bring back Flemming Rasmussen.

Morbidian
Posts: 18
Joined: 17 Mar 2006 19:23
Location: Dimensions Of Doom
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#20 Post by Morbidian » 10 Feb 2015 18:58

For me, as for an old Blind Guardian fan, I can say that with ANATO album, every Blind Guardian album was peace of brilliance. No fillers no rubbish, just 100% beauty and awesomeness of power metal. Then, Thomen left...

Fly single was cool, but ''Twist'' album was first album in my opinion that that tracks that lack of energy and motivation, mostly because of the drum work. And for the first time, I felt the fillers, ''Another Stranger Me'' for sure. Same could be said for ''New Order'' or even ''Straight through the Mirror''.

Then came the ''At the Edge of Time'', drumming > flat... I don't know but, for me, Frederik may have his approach, but in terms of Blind Guardian music, he don't give a s**t for progression like Thomen did. Every album with Thomen, had more and more weight, technics, progression, tension, color...

On \\Mirror\\ opus, for someone it may seems that Frederik emproved, but in reality it's guitar approach, on ''Mirror'' album that brought back all those desired harmonies and deep melodies that lacked after ''Opera'' masterpiece. Guitar work pretty much marks the flatness of the drum work... not to say that you now have and real orchestrations and choruses that even more camouflaging the Frederik's weak drumming.

Now, all this written, is just personal opinion, some can and agree and some may not, but all in all, I think that they lost a much of weight and epicsm in rhythm structure when Thomen left.

And one thing that I must add and ask you what you think....

Do you really think that Hansi can't sing songs from ''Opera'' like Battlefield, Wait for and Answer, Precious Jerusalem, or from ''Nightfall'', Feanor, or may be the fact that Frederik can't get in with that style of Drumming?

And do you think that Thomen ever may be back in Blind Guardian?
When the sky is burning,
see the Moon falling down.
On your right is lightning.
See the war in the sky.

Remember Brian,
when it's time.
Remember Brian.

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#21 Post by OmegaSlayer » 10 Feb 2015 20:41

Morbidian wrote:For me, as for an old Blind Guardian fan, I can say that with ANATO album, every Blind Guardian album was peace of brilliance. No fillers no rubbish, just 100% beauty and awesomeness of power metal. Then, Thomen left...

Fly single was cool, but ''Twist'' album was first album in my opinion that that tracks that lack of energy and motivation, mostly because of the drum work. And for the first time, I felt the fillers, ''Another Stranger Me'' for sure. Same could be said for ''New Order'' or even ''Straight through the Mirror''.

Then came the ''At the Edge of Time'', drumming > flat... I don't know but, for me, Frederik may have his approach, but in terms of Blind Guardian music, he don't give a s**t for progression like Thomen did. Every album with Thomen, had more and more weight, technics, progression, tension, color...

On \\Mirror\\ opus, for someone it may seems that Frederik emproved, but in reality it's guitar approach, on ''Mirror'' album that brought back all those desired harmonies and deep melodies that lacked after ''Opera'' masterpiece. Guitar work pretty much marks the flatness of the drum work... not to say that you now have and real orchestrations and choruses that even more camouflaging the Frederik's weak drumming.

Now, all this written, is just personal opinion, some can and agree and some may not, but all in all, I think that they lost a much of weight and epicsm in rhythm structure when Thomen left.

And one thing that I must add and ask you what you think....

Do you really think that Hansi can't sing songs from ''Opera'' like Battlefield, Wait for and Answer, Precious Jerusalem, or from ''Nightfall'', Feanor, or may be the fact that Frederik can't get in with that style of Drumming?

And do you think that Thomen ever may be back in Blind Guardian?
*Omega gives Morbidian a big brotherly hug*

Thomen grew together with BG, since they were kids.
He know where André is going to accent stuff on the guitar, listen how solos and drums work in old records.
That's a magic that you can't achieve with random drummer dude.
You can achieve it only with someone you spent a lifetime with.
A lifetime that was spent together.
Once BG were a band going to reharsal and stuff and toured loads (much more than they do now), they build the chemistry.
Now they just meet to write the record and reharse the songs for tour, so that bond won't be created with a new drummer.
Also...as good as Frederik is...he's one of the weakest drummer in the German Power Metal scene.
When I listened to Dirk on Orden Ogan's latest 2 albums I wanted to cry and thought "Fvck BG! Why didn't you pick THIS guy"
Heck, there's the Van Canto drummer that would have fit very well as Thomen's substitute.

For me bringing back Thomen is not a solution, is a necessity.

User avatar
Edain
Posts: 601
Joined: 12 Apr 2004 15:34
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#22 Post by Edain » 10 Feb 2015 21:36

Do you really think that Hansi can't sing songs from ''Opera'' like Battlefield, Wait for and Answer, Precious Jerusalem, or from ''Nightfall'', Feanor, or may be the fact that Frederik can't get in with that style of Drumming?
Frederik did Punishment Divine in some parts more justice to the studio version than Thomen. Listen to some older live records/bootlegs. He can do all the old stuff - have you been to BG-concerts in the last years?

On the other side, Hansi definitely can't do all the ANATO-stuff live - at least not on a regular tour basis. No discredit to him but this stuff is simply so high-pitched and demanding - go to concerts and listen on how many songs he lowers the vocal lines by one octave. On songs that are way easier to sing than The Curse of Feanor or Wait for an Answer.

And again: Please don't romanticize the past too much. Thomen is a great drummer and his work on ANATO was outstanding and on a creativity level that Frederik hasn't reached on the last albums. But dont act as if by-the-numbers-Power Metal drumming (90 % of the old albums) of Thomen was something incredibly unique that Fred can't reach. Doing fast doublebase, hitting the snaredrum either on the beat or offbeat and accenting chord changes with cymbals interrupted by straight tom fills is not something unique and magical. Don't tell me that you could hear that it's not Thomen in this video.

I don't wanna attack anybody or their opinion but I just can't stand this blind idealization of the past on the back of Frederik - mostly just because the drumsound was better back then. Thomen is a great drummer and so is Fred. I usually don't quote myself, but: This guy is a studied drummer, he played more grooves in two semesters than we get to hear on the first four or five Blind Guardian-albums.
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#23 Post by OmegaSlayer » 10 Feb 2015 22:16

Edain, there's one thing you are leaving out of consideration in what makes a player an artist.
A big one perhaps.
Being proficient in playing an instrument doesn't mean you're a good musician.
I can play very technically the guitar (Petrucci, Vai, Malmsteen, Becker) but I'm playing in my room, because, well, probably I'm not a good songwriter.
I can play difficult stuff, but I'm not able to come up with stuff of the same quality I play out of my own.
I could join 70% of the bands of the planet and play their stuff on guitar, but would I be able to make my presence relevant because I give something of my own that other players don't give? 95% of no.
Would I be able to tie with the other band members like the dude who played for ages before me? 70% of no.

You point out that Thomen did plain stuff on older albums, that's valid for BOF and FTB imho...but just like André and the rest.
If we put the argument on improving as a musician, Thomen was the only one that has improved his skills in BG's history.
He did indeed went far out of his comfort zone.
(Hansi improved the most actually, but on his voice, which is an instrument, but also dropped playing bass)
André still plays tappings which is the rudimentary one played by a kid that just learnt it 2 days ago, and let's not even go into sweep picking, because when I heard his sweeps on Twilight Of The Gods I felt tenderness and cuteness, because it was quite embarassing.
And yes, you may get better in techniques and learn new stuff even in advanced age like Glen Tipton, KK Downing or Adrian Smith have proven.

Still I don't listen to BG to listen to highly technical stuff, but for their songs and their personality.
Hansi sings like no one.
Marcus is a hell of a tight player with some interesting choices in his playing style (in power metal)
André is not a monster but is indeed unique.
Thomen was unique but was replaced by random drummer who can play stuff but can't come up with stuff.

The drum is there, even fast, but doesn't add any point of interest to the song.
You're good with Frederik...we're all good with Frederik, as this is the meal the restaurant is offering, like it or not, still everyone knows the last 3 albums would have been way much more interesting with Thomen.

BG without Thomen is like going to see Real Madrid with Benzema and without Cristiano Ronaldo.
They still win but it's not the best Real Madrid you can expect to see.

User avatar
Avelar
Posts: 366
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 14:02

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#24 Post by Avelar » 10 Feb 2015 22:23

OmegaSlayer wrote:Thomen grew together with BG, since they were kids.
He know where André is going to accent stuff on the guitar, listen how solos and drums work in old records.
That's a magic that you can't achieve with random drummer dude.
You can achieve it only with someone you spent a lifetime with.
Even if we imagine that Thomen is back (which has a very very little possibility imho), I doubt that this magic will still be there or could be regained.
Just keep in mind, this world is sacred.

Traveller in Time
Posts: 1017
Joined: 02 Sep 2002 19:43

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#25 Post by Traveller in Time » 10 Feb 2015 22:24

And last but not least: you don't know if Thomen could still stand such long tours.
At Savage Circus he had health problems and couldn't tour which ended with him getting fired (besides some other things)
And now with Serious Black he is forced to stay away from the drums.
In the past Thomen was always some kind of problem child (Hansi said so, i think on ITTLG)

Frederik can play several other instruments.
The only problem maybe is that Thomen could force Andre and Hansi to focus a bit more on the drums, while Frederik seems to be like a follower, which is allowed to bring in some ideas and arrangements for the drums, but has less influence in the mixing and in the final sound.
That's at least what i think, but that is all from distance. Reality can be totally different.
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

User avatar
Edain
Posts: 601
Joined: 12 Apr 2004 15:34
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#26 Post by Edain » 10 Feb 2015 23:19

@OmegaSlayer
I see your point and I fully agree when we talk about the technical side of their playing - and that's not what we're searching for in Blind Guardian. André might not be a "technical" player at all but there are hardly any guitarists out there that can come up with such wonderful "distortion guitar orchestras" like him. Just listen to the solos in Wait for an Answer or Ninth Wave - that's what I'm talking about.

It wasn't my intention to put the technical side above everything else - but I just don't see why you give Thomen that amount of praise compared to Frederik. All pre-IFTOS-drumming is pretty bland and generic (though highly energetic) to me. From that album on when the songs started to become more complex things started to get interesting but only ANATO seems really exceptional to me (The Soulforged, Sadly Sings Destiny e.g. are brilliant). Fred is less creative - but that doesn't ruin the band for me as it does to you it seems. Time what is time for example is a masterpiece - and the standard power-metal-banging doesn't hurt it. So why should straightforward drumming hurt the new songs?
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#27 Post by OmegaSlayer » 11 Feb 2015 08:50

Look, I would even be ok with Thomen on the records and Frederik on tour.

Edain, you mention Time What Is Time.
Right, full throttle drums for a full throttle song.
But songs now are not full throttle and quite complex.
And TWIT sounded great even without the guitarchestra ;)

Guardian'86
Posts: 42
Joined: 16 Nov 2014 18:25

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#28 Post by Guardian'86 » 11 Feb 2015 19:41

The drumming on the last album is mixed because there are songs more prog-oriented but at the same time there are fast songs too in more or less in the vein of power metal !!
So for me the drum section in songs like "twilight of the gods", "ashes of eternity", "the holy grail", "sacred mind" e the last three minutes of "grand parade" are something wonderful and oustanding, and Amazing drumming!! It's pretty the new direction after the last album "at the edge of time".
I like the drum section in the song "the ninth wave" really surprised me and in the song "at the edge of time" during the chorus section.

This is only the third album with the new drummer, so he's not like the old drummer but he has his own style but at the same time he can bring new ideas in the future. So maybe that on the next regular studio album (hopefully out in 2020 according to a claim of Olbrich during an interview with spazio rock in Italy :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ) he will surprise us so we should give him other chances because I think that if he can he can play in a more complex way depending on the songs too and so firstly depending on the direction which Hansi and Andrè want to give to the album.
So let's see what will happen...!!! Let's give him some other chance!

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#29 Post by OmegaSlayer » 11 Feb 2015 20:45

Sometimes I feel a total prick when I explain certain things, but oh well...

As counter intuitive as it may sound, playing an instrument fast is not hard, it's only patience and time demanding.

Playing fast is just the result of having thaught your muscle memory how to perform an action with less strength and less movement possible.
Speed on the instrument is not moving fast, it's reducing the space your limb travels between a hit and another.
This means that you have to stay on your instrument for hours, playing the same things over and over until your muscle memory gets acquainted to the movement and does it in a relaxed way, so that the next day you can try it at a bit more of speed.

So, everyone with enough will and time can in theory learn to play very fast.

Though there's nothing that can teach you how to play slow and tasty.
Either you got it or you don't.
You can study loads of theory, experiment tonal solutions, but there won't ever be a book or a guy that can teach you how long a note should last or when you have to pause.
You can't make "experience", that is a gift you're born with or without, and you have it even when you're very young like this dude who was 16 at the time of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSbJtNNWOO0

Frederik doesn't have this, it's "personality" if you will, charisma, it's something you transmit to people even when you're not aware of it.
He's a great drummer, a great performer, but he doesn't have the special juice.

Also playing loads of instruments it's not a special feature for me, the contrary, since it means you didn't focus on learning one thing at your best and split your time on different stuff.

I took time to search some Frederik stuff out of BG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlwdzgsp8_o
Soulless

User avatar
Edain
Posts: 601
Joined: 12 Apr 2004 15:34
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#30 Post by Edain » 12 Feb 2015 00:55

I just would love to stop this discussion as it seems to lead nowhere, but I just can't. :mrgreen:
As counter intuitive as it may sound, playing an instrument fast is not hard, it's only patience and time demanding.
Sure, no question about that.
Frederik doesn't have this, it's "personality" if you will, charisma, it's something you transmit to people even when you're not aware of it
Denying somebody charisma and stating it as if it were a fact IS sounding like a prick. :wink:
Also playing loads of instruments it's not a special feature for me, the contrary, since it means you didn't focus on learning one thing at your best and split your time on different stuff.
Or you could say playing loads of instruments is a sign of love and commitment to this wonderful thing called music that knows no borders or limitations to instruments. Is music about being able to play one instrument better than the other guys? :wink:
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

Led Guardian
Posts: 2437
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#31 Post by Led Guardian » 12 Feb 2015 02:29

Honestly, drums have just never been the strongest part of Blind Guardian. People idolize Thomen, but with a few exceptions most of what I heard was just straightforward drumming with a lot of 16th note double bass. It just wasn't ever that special. The drums have always been just enough to support the rest of the music, but they've never been that special on their own, in my opinion. It just isn't a standout part of their sound. I don't think the drums in BG are bad, they aren't. But on the vast majority of BG songs, there aren't a lot of moments where I think "Man, I should really focus on the drums here!" The biggest issue on this album is just how undermixed the drums got, imo. Thomen, Frederik, they both support the music just as well, I think.

They're not something like this where the drums are practically begging you to jam out to them. I mean, listen to parts like the one starting at around 4.30, and tell me that doesn't make you want to flail your arms around like an idiot more than Thomen ever did.
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

User avatar
Gandalf de Grijze
Posts: 13917
Joined: 16 Aug 2002 18:01
Location: Dutchielandia
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#32 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 12 Feb 2015 10:40

Led Guardian wrote:Honestly, drums have just never been the strongest part of Blind Guardian. People idolize Thomen, but with a few exceptions most of what I heard was just straightforward drumming with a lot of 16th note double bass. It just wasn't ever that special. The drums have always been just enough to support the rest of the music, but they've never been that special on their own, in my opinion. It just isn't a standout part of their sound. I don't think the drums in BG are bad, they aren't. But on the vast majority of BG songs, there aren't a lot of moments where I think "Man, I should really focus on the drums here!" The biggest issue on this album is just how undermixed the drums got, imo. Thomen, Frederik, they both support the music just as well, I think.
I agree, and I think that the problem I turned in bold is the true problem, not whether or not Thomen or Frederick is playing. Having seen both Thomen and Frederick preform live with BG, they are both equally skilled and really put down a great live show.
The drums (and bass) have never been an important part of BG's sound, why should that change now?
Hansi 24-09-2010 wrote:It's always good to be back in the United States Of The Netherlands
Check out my photography at Steemphoto.com

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#33 Post by OmegaSlayer » 12 Feb 2015 11:26

@Edain

I'm a prick and fully aware of it ;)

And about the part that says that your committed to music...
Mastering a single instrument is already something that takes a lifetime, if people do want to master an instrument there's no end to it, and it's a path that gives insane satisfaction.

@ledguardian

What do Diablo Swing Orchestra has to do with BG? LOL
That actually strengthen my point.
There are better drummers than Thomen and Frederik, loads, especially in other forms of metal, those more extreme or avant-garde.
Thomen doesn't simply plays 16th on the kick, he has accent and dynamics even when he plays plain.
The main point is that BG gets more varied and complicated with vocals, guitars, arrangements, moods and guess what, they work with a straight forward drummer, which is silly?/funny?
As much as Thomen was straight forward, Frederik manages to be even more bland.
So defending Frederik saying Thomen was plain is a bit out of my logical comprehension.
And even in the border of Germany there were already better power metal drummers to pick like Bastian Emig for example.

Led Guardian
Posts: 2437
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 21:08
Location: Somewhere less cliché than far beyond

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#34 Post by Led Guardian » 12 Feb 2015 18:10

OmegaSlayer wrote:
@ledguardian

What do Diablo Swing Orchestra has to do with BG? LOL
That actually strengthen my point.
There are better drummers than Thomen and Frederik, loads, especially in other forms of metal, those more extreme or avant-garde.
Thomen doesn't simply plays 16th on the kick, he has accent and dynamics even when he plays plain.
The main point is that BG gets more varied and complicated with vocals, guitars, arrangements, moods and guess what, they work with a straight forward drummer, which is silly?/funny?
As much as Thomen was straight forward, Frederik manages to be even more bland.
So defending Frederik saying Thomen was plain is a bit out of my logical comprehension.
And even in the border of Germany there were already better power metal drummers to pick like Bastian Emig for example.
Just using them as an example of a band where the drums are doing enough interesting things to impact the music in a significant way. They were the first band that came to mind for me, since I don't really listen to power metal outside of BG.

The logic I'm using isn't that crazy. I'm just saying that both of them have a plain enough style that they are interchangeable without either benefitting or harming the music in a significant way. People keep criticizing Frederik as if his presence has been detrimental to their sound, but I think that's just nostalgia speaking. If I didn't know that BG got a new drummer on ATITM, I wouldn't give it a second thought, I would just have assumed it was the same person.
'Nowhere has this renunciation of man's transience been more joyous or uplifting than in the medium of airport carpets.'

User avatar
Edain
Posts: 601
Joined: 12 Apr 2004 15:34
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#35 Post by Edain » 12 Feb 2015 19:06

Mastering a single instrument is already something that takes a lifetime, if people do want to master an instrument there's no end to it, and it's a path that gives insane satisfaction.
Yeah, but what does mastering an instrument actually mean? You can try to master the technical aspect of playing an instrument (a neverending journey indeed) but that doesn't necessarily give you a better understanding of what it's about - understanding music. Playing more different instruments on the other hand might give you deeper insight (oh, a Miracle Machine-quote :mrgreen: ) into the many faces of music.
"Edis Rehto Eht Morf Snoitanigami!"

User avatar
JazzJackrabbit
Posts: 122
Joined: 25 Nov 2014 18:21
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#36 Post by JazzJackrabbit » 12 Feb 2015 19:34

I agree that on a technical level of playing there really isn't much difference, if any, between Thomen and Frederik. But I suppose there is something to be said about the relationship that Thomen had with the band and how that affected the output of the music they made. This is all obviously hypothetical and speculation but would BTRM have the same production issues if Thomen was still in the band? He might have been more inclined than Frederik to speak his mind about how the drums sound on the songs because of his long time relationship with the rest of the band. But who knows maybe he'd be okay with it as well, I don't know....like I said it's purely speculation at this point.

User avatar
Warmoth
Posts: 85
Joined: 05 Dec 2014 17:30
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#37 Post by Warmoth » 12 Feb 2015 23:06

Here's the way I see it. Blind Guardian has evolved a lot of the years.
It boils down to, Thomen's not in the band because he didn't like their new direction. He wouldn't bend to the others so they kicked him, or they wouldn't bend to him so he left. Or it was just a mutual decision.

Clearly His drumming wasn't lacking in technique and progressiveness on A Night at the Opera, for Sure! But as was said, Thomen evolved probably the most on a technical level, probably out of his comfort zone. He could do it well, but it doesn't mean he enjoyed it.

Now, I will admit I am not expert on Thomen's career post Blind Guardian, but from what I've heard, he really likes playing "Imaginations/Nightfall" style music - Not just drums, the rest of the band is definitely a consideration - and that's awesome. I dig the Savage Circus that I've heard.
In my opinion, that type of music lends itself well to ferocious drumming and chugga chugga guitars. In the mix, and the composition.

Like it or not, that's not what Blind Guardian are about anymore. They're all about the Melody. Marcus and Frederick merely serve Andre and Hansi's (perhaps selfish) goals.
Which, personally I'm fine with. I can honestly say Blind Guardian is the only band I'm 100% on board with their musical evolution. (The most obvious/controversial example of turning to crap would be Metallica.) For me personally, the Draw with blind guardian always has been the Vocals and Andre's Leads. I rarely have said "Damn that riff RULES!" or "Damn I love this fill!" Not to say those things weren't there often in the early days, they just were overshadowed in my eyes. And Andre never was a technical shredder - he just plays really unique and memorable melodies. Same for Hansi

So saying Thomen should rejoin Blind Guardian totally undermines what Blind Guardian is today. If he never left, their music would either be totally different, (Perhaps stagnant like many older bands) or He would be unhappy playing a type of music he didn't share their passion for.
I'm not disagreeing that Frederick's drumming could be more interesting. And I'm not saying that it would be detrimental to Blind Guardians sound, of course not. It just seems that to Hansi and Andre, the drums aren't AS important as everything else that's going on. My personal bias inclines for me to agree.

But saying Frederick is a terrible drummer, or uncreative is unfair I think.
Take for instance the new bassist in the band. Based on his playing on the album I could easily say this guy is a schmuck and can't play. Uncreative. Where's the bass solos at? Or this guy has no presence, I can barely hear him.
- But a little research and I realize, wow, this guys is a machine. I guess there's not any bass solos because it didn't fit the song. Or I can't hear him punch through the mix because his sonic contribution was a minor role in the grand scheme.

Frederick can play the old BG just fine. He's no Neil Peart, but I think his drumming shines more in Sinbreed than BG. His talents have just been relegated to the back seat in the Grand Parade so to say. He seems to be fine with it, and I'm getting my fill of Hansi and Andre, so I'm not complaining either.

When I hear people wanting Thomen back, I just wonder if they really want him, or old Blind Guardian. because I think that's what they'd get.

User avatar
Warmoth
Posts: 85
Joined: 05 Dec 2014 17:30
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#38 Post by Warmoth » 13 Feb 2015 02:44

OmegaSlayer wrote: I took time to search some Frederik stuff out of BG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlwdzgsp8_o
Soulless
btw, I thought that was awesome.

The limb independence, specifically 1:00-4:00 or so. It's impressive. It's Drummer's drumming if you will

OmegaSlayer
Posts: 235
Joined: 14 Dec 2014 10:05

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#39 Post by OmegaSlayer » 13 Feb 2015 09:23

First of all I don't want old BG.
I'm fine with the evolution.
On a funny note I would enjoy Frederik on old BG much than I'm doing in new BG because, again this latest BG is less straight forward than the old BG.
If you listen closely to Thomen, he accents the crucial notes of the voice and the leads/solos, which is something that Frederik simply doesn't do.
And, about the whole BG evolution thing, I don't see it that much after ANATO...I think they actually backpedaled from ANATO.
ATITM is a simple rock-ish album, and I don't see how Thomen couldn't have enjoyed it (except Fly), ATEOT is again a step in a different direction from ANATO, where the same BG, by their own admission said they went back to the origins, and some say BTRM reminds them old stuff more than any latest album.

At last, if even Frederik could play like Mike Portnoy but is not able to voice his opinion during songwriting and reharsal and recording and song arrangements, everything is quite useless in BG sound forging.

It must be said that as much as I love what Hansi and André do, I don't think that they make all right decisions.
Just look at the Twilight Of The Gods chorus story.
I find incredible that during interviews André and Hansi are proud that they wrote 8 choruses before picking one and at the end it's considered one of the less good songs of the album.
Those 2 guys think way too much, and stuff loses spontaneity.
Or look at what they did to ANATO remastering, where they trimmed a considerable number of voice and guitar tracks.
So they spent years to record an amount of stuff which they later cut on second thought.
And then they back pedaled and moved right and left instead of progressing.
So yeah, a grounded guy like Thomen could only help.

In the end to me it seems that history just gave reason to Thomen, after he left BG released what is considered as their worst album, and then they backtracked.
In the end I still keep wondering what are the post Thomen song that Thomen would have found bad for his likings.
Fly?
At The Edge Of Time?

And I'm so damn sure that the chemistry the guy had with Thomen would have made the albums better

User avatar
blind-man
Posts: 270
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 01:45
Location: Lisbon

Re: Drum section simplicity - personal appeal to Fredrik

#40 Post by blind-man » 13 Feb 2015 15:57

I hope no one in the band sees this. Not liking the drumming on the new album is OK, but writing a "personal appeal" trying to tell a musician how to play his instrument is just cringe worthy.
Orodaran wrote:I don't need to look metal in my looks because I am metal in my heart 8)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests