Blind Guardian's 10th Album, "Beyond the Red Mirror"

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1451 Post by Traveller in Time » 31 Jan 2015 18:14

Dragonfly wrote:So the final title evolution of the 'Beyond The Red Mirror' songs probably looks like this:

1.The Ninth Wave - Song 10 (not mentioned in the update from October, 2013, perhaps it didn't even exist back then yet)
2.Twilight Of The Gods - Song 9
3.Prophecies - Prophecies
4.At The Edge Of Time - The Ocean (one of the two first tracks composed for the album)
5.Ashes Of Eternity - Encrypted Time (the other one of the two earliest songs)
6.Distant Memories - Midtempo Song (this one remains the only option as far as I'm concerned)
7.The Holy Grail - Holy Grail
8.The Throne - The Throne
9.Sacred Mind - Outcast
10.Miracle Machine - probably didn't yet exist either
11.Grand Parade - Grand Parade
12.Doom - wasn't mentioned as well (maybe one of those finalized 'Nightfall'-era leftovers)
In the RH interview they say Doom is an older song, mostly written by Marcus

Winter's coming(written by marcus) is not finished yet

Hansi even says that everyone can bring ideas, but they don't force anyone to do so.
Hansi is more the lone wolf when it comes to songwriting and he likes to work at night which can be a problem for a coop songwriting.

Ah and btw there is no special mix for vinyls, it would take too much time.
They swear on 96KHz media, bute they said the internet was a step backwards with the now usual mp3 format.
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

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Dragonfly
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1452 Post by Dragonfly » 31 Jan 2015 19:38

Yeah, I know about 'Winter's Coming'. I suppose it just didn't fit with the story and concept and they put it aside for a while. Who knows, it may become the first song written for the next 'regular' album. We shouldn't forget about it...
Nobody will ever let you know
When you ask the reasons why,
They just tell you that you're on your own,
Fill your head all full of lies

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1453 Post by blindgfan » 31 Jan 2015 21:03

It beat Maiden's Final Frontier (which was also amazing with no fillers) by 10 seconds. Good job!

OmegaSlayer
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1454 Post by OmegaSlayer » 31 Jan 2015 22:09

Traveller in Time wrote: Hansi even says that everyone can bring ideas, but they don't force anyone to do so.
Here's something from me strongly opinionated as usual that someone can see as a rant...but oh well, not going to swallow it :mrgreen:
It's hard to bring your own ideas when there's someone that usually comes up with whole records, especially when it's someone so picky that goes on to record 17 guitar tracks on a single song when even the producer tells him it's overkill.
This is band management 101.
You clearly have an alpha dog that is marking the territory all over the place.
Which for the other band mates becomes something complex to deal with.
It subconsciously ranges from the
A- my stuff is not good enough for the band standard
B- my stuff doesn't sound like the band usual sound
C- since I feel bad when my stuff is pushed back, there's no reason I should work my ass to come up with ideas
D- who knows where mr x wants to go this time with the sound
E- a mix of the above

At the same time the alpha dog can think
A- it's better than I write everything since other guys don't have the right writing skills
B- I forged the band sound and know what it must sound like
C- damn I would like some help, the others are parasites in my band
D- we must renew ourselves and I have the idea where we must go
E- a mix of the above

From my personal band experiences, way back in the past, I realized I totally behaved like the alpha dog case E and only after years from the disbanding I realized to think that I had been "choking" my band mates creativity bringing full songs and having an idea on how they had to sound and at the same time complaining that no one helped.
The point is that writing a full record only by yourself blows your ego to the stars...

Anyway, this is not something you can solve around a table, whatever the mood of the chat is, neither if you're willing to listen nor if you rant.
Usually everyone has the best interests of the band in mind.
Even the ones who don't write songs can think: "the band has worked until now because dude x has undeniable writing skills, it's BETTER TO LEAVE THINGS AS THEY ARE"

This is what happens daily on 95% of bands of any nationality, genre and level of fame.
You don't have to trust me, but just read band biography, talk with friends who play in a band, read between the lines in interviews.

I bring up this because I think that more or less every guy in BG has something cool to offer to the songwriting.
Marcus has proven himself many times to write excellent stuff, Thomen wrote great stuff (in and out BG), Frederik is said to have helped a great deal with Holy Grail so he can "potentially" write good stuff.
Mind you I said potentially because one song is not enough in my book, and it's not because we're talking about Frederik.

Going back and forth with the discussion, I briefly mentioned Thomen.
Why?
Because Thomen openly said that he wrote 3 songs after ANATO which sounded very Imagination-era stuff and didn't presented them to Hansi and André because he said he knew that they would have told him: "cool but we did that stuff 10 years ago", so those became Savage Circus material, then Thomen left and blah blah blah...history.
Writing stuff that resembles BG is not an easy task, if you want my opinion as musician; you can pretty much clone Helloween, Stratovarius, Gamma Ray...but BG, as well as Rage are quite hard to clone.
This to mean that Thomen's work although derivative (but written originally for the main band!) was no easy task.

Now we have Marcus and Frederik (that both play in Sinbreed) in the backseats.
The Holy Grail is a great song, Doom is a wonderful song that imho was "criminally" relegated to B-Side/bonus track/whatever and not even given the orchestra/choir treatment the rest of the record got.

I'm not pointing that they could leave :!:
I'm pointing that André and Hansi should better realize the valuable assets they have in the band and how precious they are.
I really think at this point a good breath of fresh air could be for the band go back to "school times" writing the record with studio jam sessions like young kids do rather than going to reharsals with stuff already done, which is pretty fatiguing, but could be very rewarding considering the skills of the people involved.

It's true that BG renewed their sound with loads of elements, but also left stuff behind...
- Some of the medieval vibe
- The acoustic guitars breaks inside the songs
- Loads of speed (even if it's something I'm not worrying about or think is so important in BG sound)
- The dark choruses of ATITM (I like them)
- The twin guitar interludes

Stuff that can be still in new records together with the new elements without the fear to sound old, but enriching the sound even more, and Doom is an excellent example and I also want to point out that it has the best bass guitar lines of BTRM and also the very varied and nice drum sections from Frederik.

I do really think BG should go back to write as a band.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1455 Post by ent » 31 Jan 2015 22:54

OmegaSlayer wrote: It's true that BG renewed their sound with loads of elements, but also left stuff behind...
- Some of the medieval vibe
- The acoustic guitars breaks inside the songs
- Loads of speed (even if it's something I'm not worrying about or think is so important in BG sound)
- The twin guitar interludes

Stuff that can be still in new records together with the new elements without the fear to sound old, but enriching the sound even more, and Doom is an excellent example and I also want to point out that it has the best bass guitar lines of BTRM and also the very varied and nice drum sections from Frederik.
New album is great(better than last album), not big problem for me but I agree with parts of the text.

Holy grail and doom is old school guardian style and I love this songs. Old/modern style is twilight of... and ashes... an this songs is great, but they lack that old spark.
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1456 Post by OmegaSlayer » 31 Jan 2015 23:32

Mine is not a judgement on the quality of BTRM, which I think is great.
I just think it's not BG's masterpiece.
Somehow I start to realize why a part of people is so fond only of pre-NIME BG (or pre-ANATO, the border is thin there)
You can clearly notice BG evolved between Battalions and Imaginations...little but consistent steps, but what is clear is that they didn't left anything of their sound behind, they enriched it but they didn't drop elements.
I don't question the move towards more proggy and bombastic shores (I like both versions of BG the same way), but when I listen to Beyond, I can't help but think that I'm not listening to BG full potential, because there are many sound elements that the guys can deliver with outstanding quality, but they choose to put them aside.

So yeah, when I listen to BTRM I can't help but wonder "what it could have been".
I mean, this is not something I feel only about BG but many other bands where I think that the full potential of the writing skills of the whole line-up is not exploited (Borknagar for example).

We mentioned Doom, some say it's close to SFB stuff, to my ears it's more close to TFTTW stuff mixed with NIME, but anyway, it sounds a bit out of place in BTRM "song texture", but only because it doesn't feature orchestra, it lacks "the new BG layering" but if it had orchestrations I bet no one would understand it's a song left from previous album sessions.

I say that I would be very disappointed if in the next "regular" record BG would drop orchestration as it was pointed in some interviews.

Basically all this because I'm for adding and refining elements, not removing them.
AND I know they can do it, they just have to work together, be themselves and not think much about what they did in the past.

Traveller in Time
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1457 Post by Traveller in Time » 31 Jan 2015 23:51

OmegaSlayer wrote:
Traveller in Time wrote: Hansi even says that everyone can bring ideas, but they don't force anyone to do so.
Here's something from me strongly opinionated as usual that someone can see as a rant...but oh well, not going to swallow it :mrgreen:
It's hard to bring your own ideas when there's someone that usually comes up with whole records, especially when it's someone so picky that goes on to record 17 guitar tracks on a single song when even the producer tells him it's overkill.
This is band management 101.
You clearly have an alpha dog that is marking the territory all over the place.
Which for the other band mates becomes something complex to deal with.
It subconsciously ranges from the
A- my stuff is not good enough for the band standard
B- my stuff doesn't sound like the band usual sound
C- since I feel bad when my stuff is pushed back, there's no reason I should work my ass to come up with ideas
D- who knows where mr x wants to go this time with the sound
E- a mix of the above

At the same time the alpha dog can think
A- it's better than I write everything since other guys don't have the right writing skills
B- I forged the band sound and know what it must sound like
C- damn I would like some help, the others are parasites in my band
D- we must renew ourselves and I have the idea where we must go
E- a mix of the above

From my personal band experiences, way back in the past, I realized I totally behaved like the alpha dog case E and only after years from the disbanding I realized to think that I had been "choking" my band mates creativity bringing full songs and having an idea on how they had to sound and at the same time complaining that no one helped.
The point is that writing a full record only by yourself blows your ego to the stars...

Anyway, this is not something you can solve around a table, whatever the mood of the chat is, neither if you're willing to listen nor if you rant.
Usually everyone has the best interests of the band in mind.
Even the ones who don't write songs can think: "the band has worked until now because dude x has undeniable writing skills, it's BETTER TO LEAVE THINGS AS THEY ARE"

This is what happens daily on 95% of bands of any nationality, genre and level of fame.
You don't have to trust me, but just read band biography, talk with friends who play in a band, read between the lines in interviews.

I bring up this because I think that more or less every guy in BG has something cool to offer to the songwriting.
Marcus has proven himself many times to write excellent stuff, Thomen wrote great stuff (in and out BG), Frederik is said to have helped a great deal with Holy Grail so he can "potentially" write good stuff.
Mind you I said potentially because one song is not enough in my book, and it's not because we're talking about Frederik.

Going back and forth with the discussion, I briefly mentioned Thomen.
Why?
Because Thomen openly said that he wrote 3 songs after ANATO which sounded very Imagination-era stuff and didn't presented them to Hansi and André because he said he knew that they would have told him: "cool but we did that stuff 10 years ago", so those became Savage Circus material, then Thomen left and blah blah blah...history.
Writing stuff that resembles BG is not an easy task, if you want my opinion as musician; you can pretty much clone Helloween, Stratovarius, Gamma Ray...but BG, as well as Rage are quite hard to clone.
This to mean that Thomen's work although derivative (but written originally for the main band!) was no easy task.

Now we have Marcus and Frederik (that both play in Sinbreed) in the backseats.
The Holy Grail is a great song, Doom is a wonderful song that imho was "criminally" relegated to B-Side/bonus track/whatever and not even given the orchestra/choir treatment the rest of the record got.

I'm not pointing that they could leave :!:
I'm pointing that André and Hansi should better realize the valuable assets they have in the band and how precious they are.
I really think at this point a good breath of fresh air could be for the band go back to "school times" writing the record with studio jam sessions like young kids do rather than going to reharsals with stuff already done, which is pretty fatiguing, but could be very rewarding considering the skills of the people involved.

It's true that BG renewed their sound with loads of elements, but also left stuff behind...
- Some of the medieval vibe
- The acoustic guitars breaks inside the songs
- Loads of speed (even if it's something I'm not worrying about or think is so important in BG sound)
- The dark choruses of ATITM (I like them)
- The twin guitar interludes

Stuff that can be still in new records together with the new elements without the fear to sound old, but enriching the sound even more, and Doom is an excellent example and I also want to point out that it has the best bass guitar lines of BTRM and also the very varied and nice drum sections from Frederik.

I do really think BG should go back to write as a band.
You have some points there.
But it's always hard to discuss something we don't know for sure.
Everything has its points for the negative and positive side.

Example: If only a few people are involved in songwriting there is less danger to have a mixture of songs without real connection, no red line
Or your focus is on too many things and then you'll have dedaline problems.
So it is per se not bad when someone has a vision how an album should sound.

I totally agree that jamming can be great "funding tool" there is always something coming up which can help you at later songwriting process.
I also agree that Marcus ideas seem to be less suitable for Hansi and Andre in the last albums, which doesn't mean it will be in future. it's just a snap shot.
I also can imagine that Marcus is more the social type and doesn't want to get in line between Andre and Hansi (and sometimes Charlie), what i read about in intveriews there can be hard discussions, so no need to be part of it. I guess he has enough scope of development in arranging his rythm parts. Or in arrangement of the live sound. And maybe he is happy that he hasn't to be that creative and more supporter.

I trust in their politics and their long friendship and who are we to discuss this? We have no idea what's really going on. So maybe we are overanalyzing things nowadays (but hey we are a forum and it's nice just to talk about BG stuff, so i have no real problem with that)

I love their new stuff, so for me they made everything perfect (ok besides some technical things like the drum sound), but there is always something to criticize that's human nature. And maybe if the drum sound would be like i want to have it, others would complain or it would have an impact on the orchestra sound (maybe it is time to sell the audio track by track and let people "mix" their individual sound) which wouldn't sound good. I am too much an ordinary person to see the difficulties you might gain.

Where was i? ok i think that's all so far.
But you have some point, there is no doubt. One of my favourite BG songs was written by Thomen (The Curse of Feanor) and i do like Marcus stuff as well (e.g. All the King's Horses, Doom or is arrangement on Van canto's Spelled in waters).
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

Traveller in Time
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1458 Post by Traveller in Time » 31 Jan 2015 23:58

OmegaSlayer wrote:Mine is not a judgement on the quality of BTRM, which I think is great.

I say that I would be very disappointed if in the next "regular" record BG would drop orchestration as it was pointed in some interviews.

Basically all this because I'm for adding and refining elements, not removing them.
AND I know they can do it, they just have to work together, be themselves and not think much about what they did in the past.
I could imagine that someday they would cancel it. Not totally but maybe limiting, if they are sick of it and that is their strength (like Tobias sammet) they do what they want and what they like and don' listen too much to their fans, because you never can satisfy all, some will like it some not, some will buy your albums some not, but maybe you gain some new fans. being a fan doesn' mean you are fan from beginning to end (like with soccer clubs!), if you don't like one album, put it aside, you don't like an "episode" of a band, fine, but maybe there will be something in future or you just listen to the old stuff. Masterpieces can be done if you love what you do and there is no doubt that BG still love what they do! So i am more than optimistic for Tales to come ;)... :D
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

ErHaO
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1459 Post by ErHaO » 01 Feb 2015 02:42

OmegaSlayer wrote:
ErHaO wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:Can't wait to get my physical copy and go to listen to one of my friends' home.
He's a professional cello player, having worked for many orchestras, and worked with Nicola Piovani http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Piovani

In his opinion from listening The Night Wave in FLAC audio, 3 choirs were not needed, not even 2, and one would have been more than enough.
He said that when choirs are selected, the colours and range of the voices are already taken into consideration to make it sound various and big, and most of all professional singers sing on time, so there's not the big stadium effect that is created by voices being slightly offset and not on time.
He said that it's not like when Peter Jackson filled the stadium to record the orcs for LOTR.

I was all excited when I told him about what BG were doing, and he got very excited too, but the results didn't surprised him.
He says the section is cool, although simplistic, but 3 choirs didn't brought the effect BG were searching.
He said BG would have had an effect closer to what they were searching if they would have hired 3 choirs with different backgrounds rather than 3 classical choirs.

Anyway we will listen to it again with the proper official version. :)
Hansi elobarated on this. They wanted a single 200 people choir but for wathever reason they could not find one to deliver the quality they had in mind. This tells you two things already; they wanted a single choir of the same style (so it makes sense that the three choirs applied share this) and they were not able to find a choir which was able to deliver (maybe not available, who knows). BG are no classical musicians themselves and have the help from professionals to conduct the choirs and orchestra's. I am pretty sure the respective musicians know what their choirs can and cannot do when Hansi/Andre want to create something. This does not mean there are not any choirs on the world that cannot deliver this on their own, but the ones they did frankly not.

Furthermore, I do not think they were searching for the stadium effect at all (which in Live setting also if often the case on a smaller scale, due to the lack of harmony it can sound massive). That is a concept the most basic singer can appreciate and I do not believe they "missed" this oppertunity to be honest (it can be very cool though).

I am sure your friend has plenty of musical talent and knowledge, but he does not know what BG had in mind and what the practical reasons for their decisions were.
I reply to this since this is the only reply I got that has sense and is not just silly fanboyism.

Let's get step by step.
There is no choir in the world with that abundance of elements.
That should tell something.
If chorale would need such amount of people, somewhere in the world, there would be such a big choir, but the reality is that all that amount of people, especially for a recording is redundant.
It would be different live, because, don't know if any of you guys went to a classical concert, you phisically perceive the mass of air produced by an orchestra/choir, which is in some way annihilating and impressive and makes the experience really worth to be lived.
So, what my friend means is that there is a limit to what you can record, and over a certain number of people the difference is negligible, or, to put it differently, bluntly, it's a waste of money, because the effect on the record is no different that what you can get by a 90 piece orchestra.
It's mostly a technology limit.
So, BG wanted a big effect, but you can't achieve it on a record just by stacking choirs, live would have been a different thing.
But if you still say that how can me or my friend know what BG wanted...hmm...my suggestion is, inform yourself, listen to loads of chorale, listen to the same chorale performed by 4, 5 different choirs, get infos about the choir you're listening, eventually get some theoric knowledge about music, and when you know about choirs, ask yourself if BG have made something that hasn't been already done and achieved even with 50 people choirs.

About the choir being simplistic, simple doesn't equate to bad, and I don't know why you guys read it that way.
Being simplistic means that there is not an insane amount of "voices" going on. (Go search what "voice" means in music composition, I don't want to type, if you're interested go search by yourself, there's plenty about that)
Blind Guardian are not classical composers, and they have to resort to conductors that can create and arrange scores.
Still those people are neither Giovanni da Palestrina, nor Monteverdi, nor Handel, nor Bach, nor Verdi.
One thing, while O Fortuna, which is just the intro from Carmina Burana, is widely known and very cool for his dark mood, the whole Carmina Burana choir from Carl Orff is much less astonishing.

Indeed The Ninth Wave intro is a great piece of music and kudos to the bards for conceptualizing and delivering it, as I told you my friend said it was a great thing and a great idea, and more of these things should happen.

So...instead of just attacking someone that is trying to explain you something, use that time to get some information.
Learn what choirs are, how they work, don't think you know what chorale sound like because you know O Fortuna.

Respect...learn to respect yourself and your curiosity and will to learn new things before you can say you respect others.
So here is my reply to this. First of all I had no intention to attack or something like that, if it came off like that :P I just disagreed heavily with the notion about the sound they tried to achieve, with the comparison to LotR's armies recordings and all. Not about the technicality of it.

Now as for the recording of the choirs, I can agree with that. I have no clue about actual numbers, but I am sure there are some limits here. If you have an allround talented choir and a conductor with broad knowledge how to apply this, they probably could've done with less. We know that the main reason there is a third choir (the Boston one), was because of the English and them being able to put out certain lines faster/clearer (for Holy Grail). Now this is offcourse an example of something that they'd be able to do with less people if their first choir was able to do this as well (which is part of the learning process, I guess). My point, however, is that we will never really know all the practical reasons for certain choices behind the scenes. It can be limitations of their hired choirs (to be frank, any ensemble has their own) or whatever other reason, but I am sure in their situation, this was the way to go to get this piece of music. The choirs are used for different parts in different songs and my guess is in doing so they explored the abilities of the respective ensembles thoroughly before deciding they needed more and/or which one in which part of a song. I doubt there was not any difference to be heard to be honest, when putting the three choirs on top of each other. If something does not work at all and you cannot hear a difference, then surely they would have noticed that while mixing. This does not mean it could not have been done with less, though. And on top of this all, marketingwise it is just good to say you have preformed with two orchestras and three choirs, as it gives a sense of high production values regardless of the necessity (after the facts) :)

As for complexity, I fully agree. For me it is comparable to saying an Andre solo is not a John Petrucci or Micheal Romeo solo in terms of complexity. But Andre always has a knack for making some damn catchy tunes that stand out immediately. Blind Guardian as a whole always manages to put in surprising elements, new combinations of tried formulas and are able to write very dense songs with a lot of different melodies in it without sounding completely disjointed, and that is their talent. It would be odd if BG wrote the most complex classical arrangements comparable to the most gifted composers in the classical genre, while it is just an element to BG's music. And there is no need to do so imo. Ninth Wave intro sounds really epic as is and is probably what they had in mind when starting the recordings. And in the end that is what matters. I get that from a classical musicians point of view it is interesting to debate about the "how" or "why" though.

ErHaO
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1460 Post by ErHaO » 01 Feb 2015 03:16

Has anybody checked the alternate version of Grand Parade on the bonus 10" vinyl yet?

The latest trailer makes me think it maybe is the second (or first) performance of Hansi's vocals, as Andre states Hansi recorded the whole thing twice, which is unique for them.

Also, Doom is awesome :D

Rokubota
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1461 Post by Rokubota » 01 Feb 2015 05:33

Hansi was in the zone with this album, very emotional performance and the main reason why BTRM is so addictive to me.

I'm in love with this fucking record :lol: . Happy to be a fan in a time like this.

OmegaSlayer
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1462 Post by OmegaSlayer » 01 Feb 2015 08:20

@ErHaO
I think we completely agree, and you also get the point in the last sentence
I get that from a classical musicians point of view it is interesting to debate about the "how" or "why" though.
The friend I mentioned, who is a very close one, so we talk really freely and without prejudices, is a big fan of Bob Dylan and Simon & Garfunkel.
This to say that, just because you're grown with a certain education and you're used to some complexity, and you obviously appreciate it and understand it deeply, and you get the mechanics behind the music, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate easier stuff with less complexity.
I am a technical death metal fan for example, and enjoy very technical stuff anyway, but BG is still my favourite band.
So yeah, it's not a problem with simplicity, etc..., my main gripe maybe was just marketing ;)
I mean, marketing can rub you the wrong way when you are into things enough to understand it's marketing more than musical results.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1463 Post by Wizard's Crown » 01 Feb 2015 13:02

Maybe I'll sound like a blasphemous but while listening to the new album time passes as fast as listening to their older masterpieces (SFB, IFTOS)..which means that BTRM for me is a gem!


PS: what is a "Xanadu"? :P

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1464 Post by loren » 01 Feb 2015 13:33

I don't know if it has already been said by someone: The ending part of "Prophecies" ---> "BUT DON'T BE AFRAID, there's war beyond the red door..." (the capital letters of this part) has the exact same melody with the beginning of "Distant Memories" 's chorus.
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Traveller in Time
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1465 Post by Traveller in Time » 01 Feb 2015 13:43

That's absolutely true. There are many connections melody or even lyricwise to older BG songs, i would even say not limited just to IFTOS (because of the story). So is ATITM presented as well. I heard some parts from Skalds and Shadows and Another stranger me.
Often there are moments when i think i heard this part/melody or just single sequences. So it is some kind of Medley or Best of in some way.
But i have to analyze this more into depth. Now it's just a feeling no real facts with which i can proof it.
Sorry about my bad english, but the good one is on vacation!

blindgfan
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1466 Post by blindgfan » 01 Feb 2015 14:56

Traveller in Time wrote:That's absolutely true. There are many connections melody or even lyricwise to older BG songs, i would even say not limited just to IFTOS (because of the story). So is ATITM presented as well. I heard some parts from Skalds and Shadows and Another stranger me.
Often there are moments when i think i heard this part/melody or just single sequences. So it is some kind of Medley or Best of in some way.
But i have to analyze this more into depth. Now it's just a feeling no real facts with which i can proof it.
The one that particularly got my attention is between Ninth Wave and the intro part of IFTOS.

ErHaO
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1467 Post by ErHaO » 02 Feb 2015 03:00

For owners of the earbook with 10", does the bonusvinyl have a sleeve in the book itself? Or is it something they delivered in a seperate fold?

Mine is waiting at my parental home (moved recently, so I decided to order my stuff at their adress to prevent problems) and I cannot wait to get my hands on it!

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1468 Post by Zhuge Liang » 02 Feb 2015 06:37

Wizard's Crown wrote: PS: what is a "Xanadu"? :P
A place of great beauty.
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1469 Post by Angus » 02 Feb 2015 08:20

I got a real copy of the album and wow, the production really is that bad. I thought that the leak had corrupted sound this whole time.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1470 Post by warchanter » 02 Feb 2015 10:07

ErHaO wrote:For owners of the earbook with 10", does the bonusvinyl have a sleeve in the book itself? Or is it something they delivered in a seperate fold?
It's in a sleeve at the end of the book.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1471 Post by Vanni Fucci » 02 Feb 2015 13:12

Hi guys, new user here.
Don't know if this has been discussed before, but I'm kinda pissed off at NB for butchering the album's concept. It seems to me that the two bonus tracks are no leftovers or b-sides. Worse yet, "Doom" is actually meant to represent the end of the story!
So in the end having the "full" concept costs 40+ euros... I thought the earbook was cool and all, but there's no way I'll endorse this kind of marketing strategy - at least not if a concept album is butchered.

ps: the album's obviously great :)

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1472 Post by OmegaSlayer » 02 Feb 2015 14:32

Actually I purchased the earbook because I think the album is worth it, but I usually hate limited versions that have size different from a digipak because they doesn't fit in my shelves.
That's why I purchase the digipak to put on the shelf and the earbook lol

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1473 Post by blindgfan » 02 Feb 2015 14:43

OmegaSlayer wrote:Actually I purchased the earbook because I think the album is worth it, but I usually hate limited versions that have size different from a digipak because they doesn't fit in my shelves.
That's why I purchase the digipak to put on the shelf and the earbook lol
The most disgusting thing about that earbook thing is splitting it into 2 CDs, while it's only 77 minutes! Does anyone know the best way to combine 2 flac files into 1 and create a .cue?

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1474 Post by crzgfx » 02 Feb 2015 16:19

Wizard's Crown wrote:Maybe I'll sound like a blasphemous but while listening to the new album time passes as fast as listening to their older masterpieces (SFB, IFTOS)..which means that BTRM for me is a gem!


PS: what is a "Xanadu"? :P
It was a palace for a Mongolean king. Rush wrote a song with the same name which is very great. I bet that Hansi had to think of Rush when he wrote these lyrics. :D

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1475 Post by OmegaSlayer » 02 Feb 2015 17:24

blindgfan wrote: The most disgusting thing about that earbook thing is splitting it into 2 CDs, while it's only 77 minutes! Does anyone know the best way to combine 2 flac files into 1 and create a .cue?
I don't like it either, they could have used 80 minutes CDs...they are still being manufactured :)

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1476 Post by Dragonfly » 02 Feb 2015 17:37

OmegaSlayer wrote:
blindgfan wrote: The most disgusting thing about that earbook thing is splitting it into 2 CDs, while it's only 77 minutes! Does anyone know the best way to combine 2 flac files into 1 and create a .cue?
I don't like it either, they could have used 80 minutes CDs...they are still being manufactured :)
Yep, and splitting it into 2 CDs is not very clever as it leads to a waste of material where only one disc would have done the trick just as well.
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1477 Post by blindgfan » 02 Feb 2015 17:45

Dragonfly wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:
blindgfan wrote: The most disgusting thing about that earbook thing is splitting it into 2 CDs, while it's only 77 minutes! Does anyone know the best way to combine 2 flac files into 1 and create a .cue?
I don't like it either, they could have used 80 minutes CDs...they are still being manufactured :)
Yep, and splitting it into 2 CDs is not very clever as it leads to a waste of material where only one disc would have done the trick just as well.
Maiden's last CD was just as long. But they were clever somehow...

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1478 Post by Dragonfly » 02 Feb 2015 20:44

That's because Iron Maiden is not signed to Nuclear Blast. :wink:
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1479 Post by OmegaSlayer » 02 Feb 2015 21:15

One prickly consideration...
I read another BG interview and they say "if people won't like or find it complex the album the first time, they will listen it more"
Now I read this often here too.
"Why should I listen to Sonic Youth album if I didn't like it the first time?"
"How many people don't like Dream Theater but keep listening to their records until they like them?"

Honestly I found this statement very presumptuous.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1480 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 03 Feb 2015 01:17

I kind of agree, to me it is always more like if you don't completely understand/get it the first time, you might feel encouraged to listen more times because you like it, and want to understand it...

if you don't like it the first time, you may feel like giving it a 2nd, maybe a 3rd chance, but really... if yyou don't like it, it simply isn't your thing, so what? don't listen to it, nobody is obligated to listen...


btw, new interview: http://www.lordsofmetal.nl/en/interviews/view/id/5323
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1481 Post by OmegaSlayer » 03 Feb 2015 09:22

But it's something you can ask or tell to your fans, not to generic music listener/generic metalhead.
Also, complexity is not an absolute quality (because absolute qualities don't exists)
I really enjoy complex stuff (I listen to stuff much more complex than BG stuff) and I also say that there's a line between complex and saturated, which is very thin.
You can be complex and essential, you can be complex and saturated, complex and self indulging.

My girlfriend who is a metalhead and fond of BG since early 90s, found the new record good, beautiful in parts, but "gross"

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1482 Post by OmegaSlayer » 03 Feb 2015 14:16

I just convinced a 62 years old friend to purchase "Beyond The Red Mirror"

Btw, I got my earbook, which is awesome, but I think that the idea of the insert is really really really cheap for a thing I payed more than € 35.00
Honestly I had to go check Gandalf pics once again because I thought my copy was defective, because I couldn't believe it.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1483 Post by warchanter » 03 Feb 2015 15:31

I believe Hansi wrote the insert AFTER the Earbook had been alredy put in production.
As the tale told by the chronicler somehow sums up what is happening (indeed the texts by the Chosen One and the Crow are cryptic to say the least), it may be that it was conceived at a later time to clear things up a bit (or confuse them some more, ;-) )
I take it as a bonus.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1484 Post by OmegaSlayer » 03 Feb 2015 21:51

There's a part of Wheel Of Time in Grand Parade

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1485 Post by Warmoth » 03 Feb 2015 23:15

OmegaSlayer wrote:There's a part of Wheel Of Time in Grand Parade
The first 10-15 seconds seconds reminded me of WoT when I first heard it.
Is that what you're referring to, and do you think it was intentional?

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1486 Post by Feanor l'invincible » 04 Feb 2015 01:32

I changed my mind about The Ninth Wave after enough listenings and reading the lyrics.. too many BG and non-BG elements combined, Hansi didn't lie.. The Ninth Wave has come!
THE CURSE OF FEANOR RUNS LONG!

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Re: Blind Guardian's 10th Album, "Beyond the Red Mirror"

#1487 Post by Ryu » 04 Feb 2015 05:54

I've updated the main post with what the songs were renamed to. For nostalgia's sake I'm going to leave the old descriptions there.

There are no individual samples for each song so I can't rightly update the post with that. I'm considering ways to make the post better; adding scans of the earbook would almost seem a little dirty to me, what do you guys think?
Defiant of destiny

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1488 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Feb 2015 08:40

Warmoth wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:There's a part of Wheel Of Time in Grand Parade
The first 10-15 seconds seconds reminded me of WoT when I first heard it.
Is that what you're referring to, and do you think it was intentional?
Later, second half of the song.
I start to believe it's intentional, otherwise it would be sad that they've recycled themselves so much

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1489 Post by Wizard's Crown » 04 Feb 2015 16:40

OmegaSlayer wrote:There's a part of Wheel Of Time in Grand Parade
Not a chance..when I listen to grand parade the first thing I'm thinking is NIME..listen to the lead guitar at the beginning..listen how hansi is singing at the whole song..we haven't heard a so theatrical and lyrical hansi since noldor

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Re: Blind Guardian's 10th Album, "Beyond the Red Mirror"

#1490 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Feb 2015 17:05

You have problems with your ears buddy
Grand Parade 7:19

Don't ever say "not a chance" in your life, it's rude, it only brings problems and make you sound hmmm...bad.

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Re: Blind Guardian's 10th Album, "Beyond the Red Mirror"

#1491 Post by Wizard's Crown » 04 Feb 2015 17:22

OmegaSlayer wrote:You have problems with your ears buddy
Grand Parade 7:19

Don't ever say "not a chance" in your life, it's rude, it only brings problems and make you sound hmmm...bad.
You called it a copy and I have a problem with my ears...mmmm ok..

About being rude sorry I can't take that advice from the jackass of the forum

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Re: Blind Guardian's 10th Album, "Beyond the Red Mirror"

#1492 Post by sciacallo010 » 04 Feb 2015 18:51

OmegaSlayer wrote:You have problems with your ears buddy
OmegaSlayer wrote:Don't ever say "not a chance" in your life, it's rude
Image

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1493 Post by DREAMASTER » 04 Feb 2015 20:03

arenamaster wrote:yo can we ban omegaslayer

Now that's a Democratic attitude "I don't like his opinion. Let's ban the infidel" :roll:
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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1494 Post by DREAMASTER » 04 Feb 2015 20:16

OmegaSlayer wrote:
Traveller in Time wrote: Hansi even says that everyone can bring ideas, but they don't force anyone to do so.
Here's something from me strongly opinionated as usual that someone can see as a rant...but oh well, not going to swallow it :mrgreen:
It's hard to bring your own ideas when there's someone that usually comes up with whole records, especially when it's someone so picky that goes on to record 17 guitar tracks on a single song when even the producer tells him it's overkill.
This is band management 101.
You clearly have an alpha dog that is marking the territory all over the place.
Which for the other band mates becomes something complex to deal with.
It subconsciously ranges from the
A- my stuff is not good enough for the band standard
B- my stuff doesn't sound like the band usual sound
C- since I feel bad when my stuff is pushed back, there's no reason I should work my ass to come up with ideas
D- who knows where mr x wants to go this time with the sound
E- a mix of the above

At the same time the alpha dog can think
A- it's better than I write everything since other guys don't have the right writing skills
B- I forged the band sound and know what it must sound like
C- damn I would like some help, the others are parasites in my band
D- we must renew ourselves and I have the idea where we must go
E- a mix of the above

From my personal band experiences, way back in the past, I realized I totally behaved like the alpha dog case E and only after years from the disbanding I realized to think that I had been "choking" my band mates creativity bringing full songs and having an idea on how they had to sound and at the same time complaining that no one helped.
The point is that writing a full record only by yourself blows your ego to the stars...

Anyway, this is not something you can solve around a table, whatever the mood of the chat is, neither if you're willing to listen nor if you rant.
Usually everyone has the best interests of the band in mind.
Even the ones who don't write songs can think: "the band has worked until now because dude x has undeniable writing skills, it's BETTER TO LEAVE THINGS AS THEY ARE"

This is what happens daily on 95% of bands of any nationality, genre and level of fame.
You don't have to trust me, but just read band biography, talk with friends who play in a band, read between the lines in interviews.

I bring up this because I think that more or less every guy in BG has something cool to offer to the songwriting.
Marcus has proven himself many times to write excellent stuff, Thomen wrote great stuff (in and out BG), Frederik is said to have helped a great deal with Holy Grail so he can "potentially" write good stuff.
Mind you I said potentially because one song is not enough in my book, and it's not because we're talking about Frederik.

Going back and forth with the discussion, I briefly mentioned Thomen.
Why?
Because Thomen openly said that he wrote 3 songs after ANATO which sounded very Imagination-era stuff and didn't presented them to Hansi and André because he said he knew that they would have told him: "cool but we did that stuff 10 years ago", so those became Savage Circus material, then Thomen left and blah blah blah...history.
Writing stuff that resembles BG is not an easy task, if you want my opinion as musician; you can pretty much clone Helloween, Stratovarius, Gamma Ray...but BG, as well as Rage are quite hard to clone.
This to mean that Thomen's work although derivative (but written originally for the main band!) was no easy task.

Now we have Marcus and Frederik (that both play in Sinbreed) in the backseats.
The Holy Grail is a great song, Doom is a wonderful song that imho was "criminally" relegated to B-Side/bonus track/whatever and not even given the orchestra/choir treatment the rest of the record got.

I'm not pointing that they could leave :!:
I'm pointing that André and Hansi should better realize the valuable assets they have in the band and how precious they are.
I really think at this point a good breath of fresh air could be for the band go back to "school times" writing the record with studio jam sessions like young kids do rather than going to reharsals with stuff already done, which is pretty fatiguing, but could be very rewarding considering the skills of the people involved.

It's true that BG renewed their sound with loads of elements, but also left stuff behind...
- Some of the medieval vibe
- The acoustic guitars breaks inside the songs
- Loads of speed (even if it's something I'm not worrying about or think is so important in BG sound)
- The dark choruses of ATITM (I like them)
- The twin guitar interludes

Stuff that can be still in new records together with the new elements without the fear to sound old, but enriching the sound even more, and Doom is an excellent example and I also want to point out that it has the best bass guitar lines of BTRM and also the very varied and nice drum sections from Frederik.

I do really think BG should go back to write as a band.

Well said mate. My thoughts exactly.

But like you said, at some point in bands long career this eventually happens. Look at Iron Maiden or Manowar.



Btw, I like to read what you write :wink:
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Re: Blind Guardian's 10th Album, "Beyond the Red Mirror"

#1495 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Feb 2015 20:17

Wizard's Crown wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:You have problems with your ears buddy
Grand Parade 7:19

Don't ever say "not a chance" in your life, it's rude, it only brings problems and make you sound hmmm...bad.
You called it a copy and I have a problem with my ears...mmmm ok..

About being rude sorry I can't take that advice from the jackass of the forum
Please can you quote where I said "copy".
I mentioned that there is a part that is even in Wheel Of Time, like the piece in Prophecy coming from Control The Divine, perhaps with no bad/good comment, just an observation, and you replied that way like I ate your dog for breakfast.
Yes, a reply like that rubs me the wrong way and I reply accordingly.

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1496 Post by DREAMASTER » 04 Feb 2015 20:23

Angus wrote:I got a real copy of the album and wow, the production really is that bad. I thought that the leak had corrupted sound this whole time.

No shit?! :wink:
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
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and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1497 Post by DREAMASTER » 04 Feb 2015 20:25

Vanni Fucci wrote:Hi guys, new user here.
Don't know if this has been discussed before, but I'm kinda pissed off at NB for butchering the album's concept. It seems to me that the two bonus tracks are no leftovers or b-sides. Worse yet, "Doom" is actually meant to represent the end of the story!
So in the end having the "full" concept costs 40+ euros... I thought the earbook was cool and all, but there's no way I'll endorse this kind of marketing strategy - at least not if a concept album is butchered.

ps: the album's obviously great :)

Indeed.
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1498 Post by DREAMASTER » 04 Feb 2015 20:26

OmegaSlayer wrote:One prickly consideration...
I read another BG interview and they say "if people won't like or find it complex the album the first time, they will listen it more"
Now I read this often here too.
"Why should I listen to Sonic Youth album if I didn't like it the first time?"
"How many people don't like Dream Theater but keep listening to their records until they like them?"

Honestly I found this statement very presumptuous.


Oh man, my feelings exatly.
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1499 Post by DREAMASTER » 04 Feb 2015 20:29

OmegaSlayer wrote:I just convinced a 62 years old friend to purchase "Beyond The Red Mirror"

Btw, I got my earbook, which is awesome, but I think that the idea of the insert is really really really cheap for a thing I payed more than € 35.00
Honestly I had to go check Gandalf pics once again because I thought my copy was defective, because I couldn't believe it.


What happened?
Behold the sword of power... Excalibur
Forged when the world was young
and bird and beast and flower were one with Man,
and Death was but a DREAM!!!

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Re: Blind Guardian LP10

#1500 Post by OmegaSlayer » 04 Feb 2015 21:09

DREAMASTER wrote:
OmegaSlayer wrote:I just convinced a 62 years old friend to purchase "Beyond The Red Mirror"

Btw, I got my earbook, which is awesome, but I think that the idea of the insert is really really really cheap for a thing I payed more than € 35.00
Honestly I had to go check Gandalf pics once again because I thought my copy was defective, because I couldn't believe it.


What happened?
I have this very friendly customer at my store that is into 60-70s prog, rock and so on, we often talk about music when we go to get a coffee together.
And he's a vinyl collector with those huge very pricey stereo systems.
He told me some times ago he received his limited edition copy of Pink Floyd's latest album and I told him I had pre-ordered the record of my favourite band, not even mentioning the name or what they play.
When the package with the CDs arrived he was there and saw me unpacking the Earbook and he got overly excited about it, then I played some music and he was: "OOOOOOOOOH I like it! I'll buy it! Write me the name of the band and record" and so I did.
This morning he told me he ordered the 2LP version on Amazon and he was very happy about it ^___^

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