The loli thread

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Kyhdän kanssa tuomme
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The loli thread

#1 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 08:36

Title should be descriptive enough

Image

Image

Due to some stupid people that A: think drawings can be porn. B: think that porn should not contain children. C: think that 'children' can exist in drawings and D: understand that the subset relation is transitive you can probably not make it too explicit[citation needed].
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Re: The loli thread

#2 Post by Guilherme » 23 Oct 2009 11:48

For this thread I humbly request your banning from this forum :)

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Re: The loli thread

#3 Post by Sentinel » 23 Oct 2009 12:01

Kyhdän kanssa tuomme wrote:

Due to some stupid people that (...) B: think that porn should not contain children.
Guilherme wrote:For this thread I humbly request your banning from this forum
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Re: The loli thread

#4 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 12:08

Hm, I don't think there is a justification for a ban so far. There is nothing illegal in this thread so far (and I will enforce it to be kept this way, looking at the jurisdictions of Germany (to which http://www.blind-guardian.com is subjected) and the Netherlands (to which I am subjected)), just non-pornographic pictures and a controversial opinion about child porn with which probably just about everyone, including me, disagrees, and which will shock many people here.

As many of you people know, I have not been known to easily censor opinions on this forum, including ones that disgust or shock other people. This is a matter of principle, and I don't feel like changing that right now either.

But please, Kyhdän kanssa tuomme, take into account the fact that people are not waiting for topics like this at all, here, and that they are shocked by this kind of stuff.
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Re: The loli thread

#5 Post by Guilherme » 23 Oct 2009 12:20

I respect you decision Joost. Very fair.

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Re: The loli thread

#6 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 23 Oct 2009 12:43

can't you just ban it for having a silly name?
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Re: The loli thread

#7 Post by Sentinel » 23 Oct 2009 12:43

Okay, works for me.
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Re: The loli thread

#8 Post by Mackasfour » 23 Oct 2009 12:44

...
"How easily the mind can be turned to hate from a place of fear - an instinctive, natural, protective response. Instead of focusing on the things that unite us, we focus on what divides us."

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Re: The loli thread

#9 Post by Raistlin Majere » 23 Oct 2009 12:46

Kyhdän kanssa tuomme wrote: Due to some stupid people that (...) B: think that porn should not contain children.
This is worse than the fuck jews thread.... Some people have real mental problems.....

I wouldn't mind if this thread was censored.... :evil:
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Re: The loli thread

#10 Post by faery » 23 Oct 2009 13:38

I am against porn with real children. I am not against porn with "virtual" kids, like in anime/hentai, or Second Life (where there was a whole crusade against that sort of thing). I mean, (sexual) child abuse is bad and evil, but with drawings you hurt no one, right?

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Re: The loli thread

#11 Post by Bender B. Rodriguez » 23 Oct 2009 13:58

Raistlin Majere wrote:
Kyhdän kanssa tuomme wrote: Due to some stupid people that (...) B: think that porn should not contain children.
This is worse than the fuck jews thread.... Some people have real mental problems.....

I wouldn't mind if this thread was censored.... :evil:
do you really think the people who post in the fuck jews thread have mental problems?really?
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Re: The loli thread

#12 Post by Guilherme » 23 Oct 2009 14:06

faery wrote:I am against porn with real children. I am not against porn with "virtual" kids, like in anime/hentai, or Second Life (where there was a whole crusade against that sort of thing). I mean, (sexual) child abuse is bad and evil, but with drawings you hurt no one, right?
Wrong, you actually give space for people who enjoy child pornography to feel that "what they are doing it's right". It encourages them.

Plus, porn in cartoonized form is used to lure children by molesters, and if any of you have any kind of sexual interest by kids, you should seek psychological assistance.

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Re: The loli thread

#13 Post by Lilyael » 23 Oct 2009 14:13

I don't think that "child" and "porn" should ever co-exist, in any form, whatsoever. Drawing, or real, it's still getting off on indecent images of a minor, and while this wasn't explicit, the caption rendered it offensive and ...plain wrong. And why would holding such an opinion mean that I'm stupid ?
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Re: The loli thread

#14 Post by Guilherme » 23 Oct 2009 14:22

Either he wanted just to make a "shock thread" to play with the forum, or he is serious and has some serious issues.

I think that this is the kind of thing that should not even be joked about.

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Re: The loli thread

#15 Post by Pathfinder » 23 Oct 2009 16:05

Plain and simple it's sick. I also don't get it why in all those Hentai they have to put minors. Or, if they're not minors according to story or whatever, they will have a huge resemblance to a child, and not an adult girl or woman.

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Re: The loli thread

#16 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 17:09

Sentinel wrote:
Kyhdän kanssa tuomme wrote:

Due to some stupid people that (...) B: think that porn should not contain children.
Guilherme wrote:For this thread I humbly request your banning from this forum
Question, do you know what transitivty mans in this context and do you know that it breaks the reasoning if I left it out? If not you know now, now get the fuck out of my threat until you've learned the basis of logic and go shout your moral idiocy to people that are stupid enough to buy it. Your neighbour or you or enough people you know probably wear clothes that are made via child labour in china and you complain about some drawn pictures. Any objective study on the matter clearly indicates that availability of porn reduces rape in any case.

Get yourself some rationality and grow up before you debate a complex issue you this.
Pathfinder wrote:Plain and simple it's sick. I also don't get it why in all those Hentai they have to put minors. Or, if they're not minors according to story or whatever, they will have a huge resemblance to a child, and not an adult girl or woman.
And behold here, the epitome of western hypocrisy, the characters have the personality of adults but the looks of children, thus people rule that they are children because no matter how much people claim they don't, you shall always be judged on your appearance.

They're adults that are just insanely cute, end of story. Call it adults trapped in a child's body, I don't care, 20 years back the transgendered also got their acceptance.

Nice going, blind guardian, rationality at best here, typical display of human foolishness, if you were born in nazi germany you would have hated Jews just like all the other people there. Stop absording the crap parents and society tell you and start thinking for yourself instead of trying to find some shallow justifications for your moral stupidity to exist.
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Re: The loli thread

#17 Post by Lilyael » 23 Oct 2009 17:20

1: not all Germans hated Jews
2: I think the issues regarding Nazi Germany went a little deeper than that anyway
3: We are thinking for ourselves, I've only been here a short time and have been more than impressed with the other members' ability to think for themselves, unlike the members of many other forums I've spammed up
4: When did the issue of rape come into this discussion ? Certainly not right at the start, in your first post, which is a picture of a child or child-like person who apparently "wants it" in the hands of a much bigger person
5: There was reasoning and logic in your original post ? Forgive me, I must have blinked and missed it.
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Re: The loli thread

#18 Post by faery » 23 Oct 2009 17:29

There is a difference between people who have sexual feelings and child molesters (I'm sorry, I have a lack of the right English terms for this difference). If you get aroused by kids, that does not mean you'll inevitably do something with these feelings. Hell, I know that I sometimes fantasize about stuff that could get me (or the person I'm fantasizing about) into jail. But this is stuff which I would never do in real life, just in my mind. So, a fantasy about an (illegal) arousing act does not lead to acting out that fantasy.

Also, there is no proof that watching child porn leads to molesting children. Maybe it is even an outlet for people that might otherwise have done things with kids in real life. And while real child porn is evil, hentai might be a good solution here. If you really have the urge to actually do stuff with kids, yes, then I advise counselling too, but if you just like to fantasize about it, but will never do it, then I don't see the problem.
Guilherme wrote:porn in cartoonized form is used to lure children by molesters
Do you have evidence of this? Because I sincerely doubt it...

I know this opinion is controversial, but another sounds makes for an interesting discussion.

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Re: The loli thread

#19 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 17:31

Question, do you know what transitivty mans in this context and do you know that it breaks the reasoning if I left it out? If not you know now, now get the fuck out of my threat until you've learned the basis of logic and go shout your moral idiocy to people that are stupid enough to buy it. Your neighbour or you or enough people you know probably wear clothes that are made via child labour in china and you complain about some drawn pictures. Any objective study on the matter clearly indicates that availability of porn reduces rape in any case.

Get yourself some rationality and grow up before you debate a complex issue you this.
Can you please quit using language like this towards regular users of this forum? And, while we're at it, could you please stop presenting your moral judgements as facts?

And like Liyael, I have not found a trace of real logic in your opening post, just a senseless misapplication of the term 'transitive'.
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Re: The loli thread

#20 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 17:32

Other than this, I'm in almost complete agreement with the things faery writes here.

On a related note, not long ago I read an article which stated that, in the US, the median age of sex offenders (!) was something like 15. Kids there actually get jailed for things like experimenting with their age-peers, or for spreading around naked pictures of themselves on the Internet (oh look, now they're evil child porn distributors!). Instead of protecting the youth, they're now using legislation meant to protect the youth to brand them as 'sex offenders' for the rest of their lives (with all the associated consequences).
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The loli thread

#21 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 17:34

Lilyael wrote:1: not all Germans hated Jews
Tell that to the people that got to wear a star. Also, not all poeple hate lolicon, some people think for themselves.
Lilyael wrote:2: I think the issues regarding Nazi Germany went a little deeper than that anyway
And I don't, humans shall always be humans and humans have the amazing ability to believe what ever they are told if repeated enough as true if they are young enough. The existence of culture and the westboro baptist church is a testament to that. Supposedly young children do not have 'morals' or 'good behaviour', the truth of the matter is that young children just have not been told baseless things long enough to start believing into them. Humans work like that because if they didn't they would have died out long ago, it's integral to the functioning of society, if it's 'good' is a totally different story. Evolution is a cold mistress.
3: We are thinking for ourselves, I've only been here a short time and have been more than impressed with the other members' ability to think for themselves, unlike the members of many other forums I've spammed up
Oh, come on, please, probably every one here thinks that slavery is bad, were they born in Ancient Greece, fat chance that they did so, that would be a pretty astronomically small chance that a whole forum of people that just happens to share a common dogma of their society by nature and not nurture.

Any one who believes in 'morally right' or the inverse thereof has been thoroughly brainwashed by society as is integral to the survival of a social species as humanity, if that's 'right' or 'wrong' is another thing. I don't believe in moral from a purely philosophical perspective though I cannot shake the animal urges of that some things are 'right' such as freedom of speech and 'consistency' simply because I was brainwashed to believe so, though regardless of my feelings I know these are not valid arguments in a philosophical debate.
4: When did the issue of rape come into this discussion ? Certainly not right at the start, in your first post, which is a picture of a child or child-like person who apparently "wants it" in the hands of a much bigger person
Do you think that's bad? If so? Of whom?

Is the child evil for wanting it?
Is the bigger person evil for being attractive to the child?

Neither of those, then it's not about the child being evil but some other person, or it's not evil or twisted at all.
5: There was reasoning and logic in your original post ? Forgive me, I must have blinked and missed it.
No, as I recall that wasn't a discussion, that were too pictures.

Or well, the A,B,C,D is a piece of reasoning that shows that under those axioms, there exists 'some drawings' that are 'bad'. Or rather, if they eixst, don't post them as they are 'bad'.
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Re: The loli thread

#22 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 23 Oct 2009 17:51

i'll agree with faery on this one. it's fantasy made for your amusement. and if you have a problem in distinguishing between what is real and what is not, then the problem lies with you and not the source of the fantasy.

and i don't think that perversion is the problem with child-porn of any kind, perversions are whatever you make them and anyone can make up their own mind as to what is perverted and what is not. the problem is child-consent, which doesn't exist in modern society since minors are not considered mature enough to make rational decisions and therefore incapable of giving their consent.

ergo, any case in which an adult is having sex with a child is technically rape.

but seriously, chill... you don't have to go around fucking children just because you saw some picture on a forum. but you CAN go around Fucking Jews, you GOT our consent to do that. :P
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Re: The loli thread

#23 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 18:25

Oh, I do not believe a number of common western beliefs such as the authority psychiatry enjoys or that homosexuality is any thing more than taste like any other taste, or that drugs are as bad as people claim, one of the many things I don't believe in is the age of consent. The existence of countless of societies that had no such concept and still thrived together with the fact that it would be evolutionary strange if humanity was the only mammal that some how became mentally compromised if it had sex from the moment it started to become able to procreate is an indication of that this concept is a recent western cultural innovation, not a scientific one.

But that's tangent to this as I neither have interest in children that much (they are usually annoying) nor in lolicon that much, I have nothing against cuteness so a 20 year old person that stopped aging physically once she was 13-14 or some thing is not that bad an option.

Oh, I also don't believe it can be 'harmful' to children in any way to listen to music that contains words like 'fuck' in the lyrics, I think it's essentially the same moral control that lets people force other people to wear a niqqab. My guess is that if children speak of the age of consent, they aren't trying to protect their or other's children, they buy things made by child labour for god damnit, they are really trying to justify for themselves their fear of their children growing up.
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Re: The loli thread

#24 Post by Guilherme » 23 Oct 2009 18:31

faery wrote:There is a difference between people who have sexual feelings and child molesters (I'm sorry, I have a lack of the right English terms for this difference). If you get aroused by kids, that does not mean you'll inevitably do something with these feelings. Hell, I know that I sometimes fantasize about stuff that could get me (or the person I'm fantasizing about) into jail. But this is stuff which I would never do in real life, just in my mind. So, a fantasy about an (illegal) arousing act does not lead to acting out that fantasy.

Also, there is no proof that watching child porn leads to molesting children. Maybe it is even an outlet for people that might otherwise have done things with kids in real life. And while real child porn is evil, hentai might be a good solution here. If you really have the urge to actually do stuff with kids, yes, then I advise counselling too, but if you just like to fantasize about it, but will never do it, then I don't see the problem.
Guilherme wrote:porn in cartoonized form is used to lure children by molesters
Do you have evidence of this? Because I sincerely doubt it...

I know this opinion is controversial, but another sounds makes for an interesting discussion.
It's ok to fantasize and never do it, but everyone who fantasizes about it is probably a potential molester. As someone who owns a gun is a potential killer. You may have many reasons to kill or molest a child, but in the end if you did, you did it. They may or may never do it but do you want to risk it? Honestly, children are innocent beings, putting them in the position of sex objects is wrong in my opinion, in any kind of way. You asked me for evidence of what I posted but you showed nothing but opinion too.

The lure thing is textbook material I got in cop training, I don't have any scientific data in my hands about it, but maybe searching google you can find some, I don't have much time right now nor will any sooner, so sorry for the poor overall answer. It's funny that this topic appear and we just broke a major pedophile network in my town. So all of you who want to keep thinking that those cartoons are all innocent and allright, feel free to do so, reality is not so kind tough.

Kyhdän kanssa tuomme: You are not worthy of my time. And I will rather believe you are troll then someone who actually thinks there's even a slight drip of logic in anything you posted. Grow up, look the world around you, get some fresh air into your egocentrical brain.

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Re: The loli thread

#25 Post by Twister » 23 Oct 2009 18:45

I agree with faery's post, you harm no one, and until this stuff remains this way, I have nothing to tell you.

Still, the fact that someone could get sexually excited with children gives me goosebumps. Sorry, it's not a question of open-mindness. I can try to understand your "right" to talk of this stuff, but don't say you wouldn't have expected those other aggressive kind of posts to this "loli stuff" (didn't even know how it was called until now).

It's not morality posts, it's just that for many people it's naturally plain sick. As it would have been if you had opened a cophrophagy thread, as far as I'm concerned.

If it's ok with you and you're not breaking any kind of rules, go ahead. You had to expect those "bad" replies anyway.
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Re: The loli thread

#26 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 19:03

It's ok to fantasize and never do it, but everyone who fantasizes about it is probably a potential molester. As someone who owns a gun is a potential killer.
I am not sure if this is the best comparison possible. You may also compare it with e.g. someone who plays violent computer games, and call him a potential killer because he is killing in his fantasy world. Owning a real gun has less to do with fantasy, and more with actually owning a tool that enables you to kill someone.
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Re: The loli thread

#27 Post by Guilherme » 23 Oct 2009 19:23

Joost wrote:
It's ok to fantasize and never do it, but everyone who fantasizes about it is probably a potential molester. As someone who owns a gun is a potential killer.
I am not sure if this is the best comparison possible. You may also compare it with e.g. someone who plays violent computer games, and call him a potential killer because he is killing in his fantasy world. Owning a real gun has less to do with fantasy, and more with actually owning a tool that enables you to kill someone.
You are right, well, change it to a book about making bombs, or a man who collects anti-semitic panphlets.

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Re: The loli thread

#28 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 19:23

Guilherme wrote:
faery wrote:There is a difference between people who have sexual feelings and child molesters (I'm sorry, I have a lack of the right English terms for this difference). If you get aroused by kids, that does not mean you'll inevitably do something with these feelings. Hell, I know that I sometimes fantasize about stuff that could get me (or the person I'm fantasizing about) into jail. But this is stuff which I would never do in real life, just in my mind. So, a fantasy about an (illegal) arousing act does not lead to acting out that fantasy.

Also, there is no proof that watching child porn leads to molesting children. Maybe it is even an outlet for people that might otherwise have done things with kids in real life. And while real child porn is evil, hentai might be a good solution here. If you really have the urge to actually do stuff with kids, yes, then I advise counselling too, but if you just like to fantasize about it, but will never do it, then I don't see the problem.
Guilherme wrote:porn in cartoonized form is used to lure children by molesters
Do you have evidence of this? Because I sincerely doubt it...

I know this opinion is controversial, but another sounds makes for an interesting discussion.
It's ok to fantasize and never do it, but everyone who fantasizes about it is probably a potential molester. As someone who owns a gun is a potential killer.
Possibly, but then you have to say 'people that own random machine x that facilitate rape are potential rapists, like people that own ropes or sound proved attics.

And if they fantasize, they fantasize about animated children remember? Does watching violent films a killer make? Does listening to blind guardian an elvenslayer make?

Sure, people that fantasize about raping children are potential child rapists. That doesn't mean that people that watch lolicon fantasize about raping children.
You may have many reasons to kill or molest a child, but in the end if you did, you did it. They may or may never do it but do you want to risk it? Honestly, children are innocent beings, putting them in the position of sex objects is wrong in my opinion, in any kind of way. You asked me for evidence of what I posted but you showed nothing but opinion too.
This is one side, the other side, the one often overlooked is the side of the child. Has it ever occurred to you that when children start puberty the same hormones that make boys get a manly voice and girls get tits and menstruation causes them to be interested in sex? The typical scenario is for instance an older brother so obsessed with 'protecting' his little sister from boys that he fails to consider what the wishes of said sister are.

I made the above gender specific, because the interesting part in society is that boys are excused to go have sex sooner than girls while girls supposedly grow up sooner, but hey, girls look more innocent right? Mummy and daddy are fine with Charlie Junior who already plays football and goes to Tai-Ki-Kenpo classes to lose what he has left of his innocent appearance, but as soon as Ballet-going Rachel does it, omg, then you have no innocent picture of a child to hang on to anymore. I keep finding it peculariar that supposedly these laws are to protect children while in every discussion, not the child, but what ever comes near them is the focal point. I praefer to see it from the sense of the child, you realize that the age of consent is denying a group of people the right to their own body for inconclusive evidence at best right?
The lure thing is textbook material I got in cop training, I don't have any scientific data in my hands about it, but maybe searching google you can find some, I don't have much time right now nor will any sooner, so sorry for the poor overall answer. It's funny that this topic appear and we just broke a major pedophile network in my town. So all of you who want to keep thinking that those cartoons are all innocent and allright, feel free to do so, reality is not so kind tough.
How can you lure children in with child porn any way? 'Hey kid, I've got some child porn for you, come here and I'll give it.'?

The last part of this quote holds no logical connexion to the former, that you broke down a network is no indication that lolicon causes them to exist.
Kyhdän kanssa tuomme: You are not worthy of my time. And I will rather believe you are troll then someone who actually thinks there's even a slight drip of logic in anything you posted. Grow up, look the world around you, get some fresh air into your egocentrical brain.
A man praefer's to believe what he praefers is true eh?

If I look at the world around me though, I see one thing repeating itself in western society: Parents that claim and brainwashing children into believing that they 'know best' for them, but failing to praesent a single shred of evidence of that claim. I think it's quite plausible that given the information age and parents generally have no concept of the things that occupy their child, in a lot of things children know a lot better what's best for them than parents.
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Re: The loli thread

#29 Post by faery » 23 Oct 2009 20:41

Those are two problems/questions you address, person with the long and difficult name, and I'm not sure they're related. Actually, I am sure that they are not related.

- does drawn porn (lolicon in this case) count as child porn
- how society handles children's and adolescent's sexuality

The second question does lead to the question when can you call something sexual child abuse, but that is really one step too far for this topic, I would say.

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Re: The loli thread

#30 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 20:51

faery wrote:Those are two problems/questions you address, person with the long and difficult name, and I'm not sure they're related. Actually, I am sure that they are not related.

- does drawn porn (lolicon in this case) count as child porn
- how society handles children's and adolescent's sexuality

The second question does lead to the question when can you call something sexual child abuse, but that is really one step too far for this topic, I would say.
They aren't no, but I more or less got drawn into the second by some people linking it to child sexual abuse.

My stance on the age of consent is that it should be null. However, people should have the right to press charges against people they felt pressured them into sex, regardless of the age. Age of consent is not about protecting children, it's about either creating a scapegoat or about parents not wanting to be exposed to the fact that their children grow up.
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Re: The loli thread

#31 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 21:06

It may also just be about the fact that children are a vulnerable population group who need some extra protection. If I have sex with someone and later regret it, that's just tough luck for me unless I can somehow show that it would qualify as rape (which isn't easy to show). If a minor has sex with someone and regrets it, legal steps can actually be taken. This, when applied correctly, doesn't mean less rights for the minor in question, but actually more rights for the minor in question.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The loli thread

#32 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 21:46

Joost wrote:It may also just be about the fact that children are a vulnerable population group who need some extra protection. If I have sex with someone and later regret it, that's just tough luck for me unless I can somehow show that it would qualify as rape (which isn't easy to show). If a minor has sex with someone and regrets it, legal steps can actually be taken. This, when applied correctly, doesn't mean less rights for the minor in question, but actually more rights for the minor in question.
That is my system you describe here. However the system in most jurisdictions around now is:

1: Any one can press charges against the other party. And strangely that the person that is supposedly rapes testifies to 'Oh no, not at all, I rather enjoyed it.' is no proof of it not being rape.
2: The minor in quaestion has also committed a crime.
3: Two minors doing it together under a certain age is also not legal.

So in the end, the current system just comes down to 'people under a certain age can't have sex and all people that lead to them doing so commit a crime.', not protecting any people as much as simply taking away a freedom that they—supposedly—can't handle.

And even assuming a significant majority can't, I still find it a bit against th idea of civil rights to take away freedom of some group because other people that just share the same age can't handle it. I'm not yet willing to compromise the capable to protect the ignorant of their own—supposed—stupidity.

But all that aside, I still think these laws and made up dubious and simply implausible excuses about that children that have menstruation supposedly can't consent which is both contradicted en mass by history and simply from an evolutionary perspective just 'weird' are in the end just the that-manieth thing people make up to justify their own moral feelings. If you stop your child from simply fulfilling its biological urges because you can't take it that it grows up, it's convenient to believe you're protecting your child rather than limiting it.
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Re: The loli thread

#33 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 21:55

That is my system you describe here.
I'm not sure.

My system: keeping an age of consent as a safety net (and maybe even preferring a higher one over a lower one), but applying it reasonably, listening to the people involved, and taking into account the specific situations, rather than sentencing an 18 year old guy with a 17 year old girlfriend to jailtime and labelling him as 'sexual predator' for the rest of his life (as can and does happen in the US right now).

Your system (from what I gather): no age of consent at all.

Are they the same? No, I don't think so.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

::.: Homepage .::. last.fm .::. Facebook .::. Flickr :.::

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Re: The loli thread

#34 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 21:58

Joost wrote:
That is my system you describe here.
I'm not sure.

My system: keeping an age of consent as a safety net (and maybe even preferring a higher one over a lower one), but applying it reasonably, listening to the people involved, and taking into account the specific situations.

Your system (from what I gather): no age of consent at all.

Are they the same? No, I don't think so.
No, your system also has no age of consent at all.

The age of consent is the age from which one is legally allowed to have sex.

And both our systems retain the possibility to go after child sexual abuse and press charges in roughly the same way.
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Re: The loli thread

#35 Post by Joost » 23 Oct 2009 22:05

Kyhdän kanssa tuomme wrote:No, your system also has no age of consent at all.

The age of consent is the age from which one is legally allowed to have sex.
Yes, and that law should exist, but in some cases it should not be enforced or enforced to a minimal degree. The law system here in the Netherlands is perfectly able to deal with situation-dependent judgements and/or no sentence even if the charges are true.
And both our systems retain the possibility to go after child sexual abuse and press charges in roughly the same way.
My system (which is not really 'my system' but rather the system that is reality in the Netherlands right now) has an additional protection of children which adults don't get.

Anyway, I'm out of here. I'm bored of people trying to get things out of my statements which I didn't put into them.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

::.: Homepage .::. last.fm .::. Facebook .::. Flickr :.::

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Re: The loli thread

#36 Post by Kyhdän kanssa tuomme » 23 Oct 2009 22:23

Joost wrote:
Kyhdän kanssa tuomme wrote:No, your system also has no age of consent at all.

The age of consent is the age from which one is legally allowed to have sex.
Yes, and that law should exist, but in some cases it should not be enforced or enforced to a minimal degree. The law system here in the Netherlands is perfectly able to deal with situation-dependent judgements and/or no sentence even if the charges are true.
And both our systems retain the possibility to go after child sexual abuse and press charges in roughly the same way.
My system (which is not really 'my system' but rather the system that is reality in the Netherlands right now) has an additional protection of children which adults don't get.

Anyway, I'm out of here. I'm bored of people trying to get things out of my statements which I didn't put into them.
The difference is that my system also gives those rights to adults.

If you are 25 and have a bossy boyfriend that pressures you into things, same thing as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: The loli thread

#37 Post by End Of An Era » 26 Oct 2009 11:04

i'd rather see a little girl receive
Image

but hey, whatever floats your boat, Kyhdän kanssa tuomme. i'm just happy that you're not seeking RL victims. enjoy!

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Re: The loli thread

#38 Post by End Of An Era » 26 Oct 2009 15:10

hmm.. addition to my comment, it seems our threadstarter here is on some sort of crusade for social acceptance towards lolicore and similair outings..

come on, these things don't happen overnight, so don't start crying about our opinions. It's better to take our hand and gently show us our boundaries and where you stand in that perspective, not throwing us over that border and make us flee back to our safe world of social/moral standards. You could've started a less controversial thread, that would most definitely have lead to less discussion. (and for that matter: also less disgust and negativity towards you. ;) )

An extra addition: According to american law i am too a sexual offender. I am 25 and my girlfriend has turned 17 today :)

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