Carnivore?

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No‘am
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Re: Carnivore?

#51 Post by No‘am » 26 Jun 2009 07:45

Yeah but most if not all of the campaigns aim to turn people into vegetarians, not vegans
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Re: Carnivore?

#52 Post by Sarah » 26 Jun 2009 07:56

My kingdom for a nice piece of red meat !
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Re: Carnivore?

#53 Post by No‘am » 26 Jun 2009 08:05

I have a really good one in the freezer right now
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Re: Carnivore?

#54 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 26 Jun 2009 08:26

i like meat, meat is tasty. but it's

some industries do tend to make the animal's experience a nasty one, but that can be avoided, so animal suffering isn't much of an argument.
besides, kosher butchering has very specific instructions to prevent animal suffering, so to my surprise i actually only buy kosher meat.

as for the moral ambiguosity of carnivoritude, i hate it when this gets into the equation. it's so inconsistent that it all boils down to personal. and that's no argument.

meat is also a big strain on global resources and a wasteful industry. this is actually one of the more valid points made by vegetarians. however, it only emphasizes the need to regulate your eating, not abandon meat completely.

the same goes for the health argument, humans need what meat can offer, and meat is a viable way of getting it.


the thing i do hate most is how meat-eaters will fend off anything related to self-control by stressing how crappy vegetables are and how awesome meat is. meat is not a religion and not a passtime, it's food, get over yourself. you sound like smokers talking about their favourite brand.
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Re: Carnivore?

#55 Post by No‘am » 26 Jun 2009 09:08

I'll never say vegetables are crappy, on the contrary, I like to eat them together. For example, I really like stuffed cabbage, which has both.
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Re: Carnivore?

#56 Post by End Of An Era » 26 Jun 2009 10:59

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:if i were truely judgmental, judging a person for their choice, you and i would probably have gotten along badly in the political aspect..
but we don't, i vote right-wing and you left-wing. we do not get along politically ;)
Gandalf de Grijze wrote:...and our friendship would have gotten a big blow due to that
well mannered social behaviour prevents that, like i stated earlier
Gandalf de Grijze wrote:so the social aspect is as much a part of it as the choice itself is. thinking a person is a lesser person due to a different opinion is what makes it judgemental. not having made a choice for a or b itself.
but if you say the choice itself is not judgemental, what's the motivation for voting left-wing? i mean, you say left or right, it's all good, they're equally good. (or bad for that matter :P ) if you think all options are equally good and you don't judge the quality the choice represents, you can only vote either randomly or without interest.
Sleeping Dragon wrote:some industries do tend to make the animal's experience a nasty one, but that can be avoided, so animal suffering isn't much of an argument.
besides, kosher butchering has very specific instructions to prevent animal suffering, so to my surprise i actually only buy kosher meat.

as for the moral ambiguosity of carnivoritude, i hate it when this gets into the equation. it's so inconsistent that it all boils down to personal. and that's no argument.

meat is also a big strain on global resources and a wasteful industry. this is actually one of the more valid points made by vegetarians. however, it only emphasizes the need to regulate your eating, not abandon meat completely.

the same goes for the health argument, humans need what meat can offer, and meat is a viable way of getting it.

the thing i do hate most is how meat-eaters will fend off anything related to self-control by stressing how crappy vegetables are and how awesome meat is. meat is not a religion and not a passtime, it's food, get over yourself. you sound like smokers talking about their favourite brand.
Kosher butching is good, but i have my doubts about trusting halal meat...

I like my veggies too, but i like the taste and sensation of meat that much, that i will not willingly abandon eating it. I know most farms and other meat-industry related businesses here in holland are very decent and focused on low to no suffering of the animals from personal experience.

The strain on global resources is indeed a problem, and steps towards a better and more effective industry must be taken. I personally am looking with somewhat anxiety towards the stemcell research. Wouldn't it be an environmental saviour to be able to grow juicy steaks without having a barrel full of waste guts and organs?

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Re: Carnivore?

#57 Post by Joost » 26 Jun 2009 12:18

Kosher butching is good, but i have my doubts about trusting halal meat...
I think they are pretty much the same actually, with kosher slaughtering having even stricter rules than halal. (So, if my sources are right, kosher meat qualifies as halal but not vice versa.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_an ... s_compared

(From what I can gather, all the criticisms that exist in the Netherlands of halal slaughtering, also apply to kosher slaughtering.)
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Re: Carnivore?

#58 Post by No‘am » 26 Jun 2009 12:23

Joost wrote:
Kosher butching is good, but i have my doubts about trusting halal meat...
I think they are pretty much the same actually, with kosher slaughtering having even stricter rules than halal. (So, if my sources are right, kosher meat qualifies as halal but not vice versa.)
not exactly as far as I know, kosher doesn't exactly qualify as halal but rather it is an adequate alternative for muslims when no halal is around
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Re: Carnivore?

#59 Post by End Of An Era » 26 Jun 2009 12:33

Sleeping Dragon wrote:kosher butchering has very specific instructions to prevent animal suffering
Wikipedia wrote:Slaughter

Dhabiĥa is the method used to slaughter an animal as per Islamic tradition. Shechita is the ritual slaughter of mammals and birds according to Jewish law. Shechita requires that an animal is conscious and this is taken to mean the modern practice of electrical stunning before slaughter is forbidden. All Muslim authorities also forbid the use of electrical stunning.

Similarities

* Both shechita and dhabiĥa, involve cutting across the neck of the animal with a non-serrated blade in one clean attempt in order to sever the main vessels.
* Both require that the spinal cord be avoided during slaughter.
* Both require draining the blood of the animal.
* Any adult, sane Jew who knows the proper technique can perform shechita [Maimonides' Code, Laws of Shechita 2:12]. Similarly, Dhabiĥa, can be performed by any "adult sane Muslim...by following the rules prescribed by Shariah" (which are saying "Bismillahu Allahu Akbar".). Some Islamic authorities, though, state that dhabiĥa can also be performed by Jews
What?? now i'm confused, i think cutting vessels in the neck is cruel and allows for intolerable suffering of the animals..

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Re: Carnivore?

#60 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 26 Jun 2009 14:12

that's a misconception. when cutting the main artery of cows, the nerve ends are also cut, so the animal is being bled without feeling pain.

with pigs, this can't be done properly, some people take this fact to be the reason behind pigs not being kosher in the first place. they provide """proof""" (yes, a lot of "'s) that this was also known during ancient times. but nevertheless, kosher butchering is well known for not being cruel to animals.

trust me, i wouldn't even bother checking the meat for kosher stamps if it weren't for this very single fact.

that aside, where's my cheeseburger?
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