Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

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Sleeping Dragon
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#101 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 13 Jan 2010 23:38

and up the budget by about 150 mil. :P
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#102 Post by Led Guardian » 13 Jan 2010 23:46

End Of An Era wrote:
Led Guardian wrote:4) I would love to hear how mountains could float. I chalk this up to the fiction part of science fiction, but if there is at least a plausible pseudo-scientific explanation, I would love to hear it. It certainly looks awesome. :)
Magnetism maybe? in combination with a hollow rock? filled with vacuum? :P
On a more serious note: geostationary orbit could be an option.

I was kind of disappointed the Na'vi had front-bending knees, it's both too humanoid and inefficient. For the agile way they move, rear-bending knees would be more practical.
I looked it up, and superconductors (such as the humorously named Unobtainium) create magnetic fields, making it a plausible pseudo-scientific explanation. I am satisfied.

I didn't mind the front bending knees, but I agree. Plus, I think rear-bending knees are just awesome. Well, technically those are heels. Creatures with hind legs like that have very long feet and walk on their toes. Their knees are still forward-facing.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#103 Post by Led Guardian » 13 Jan 2010 23:53

Sleeping Dragon wrote:oh, and another thing. about that whole neuro-connector baids that they connect to horses and dragons, no not about the stupidity of braids being neural pathways... my rant is about the fact that they have sex and not connect their sensy thingies, cuz that'd be fucking porn-worthy. :mrgreen:
At the risk of exciting you too much, they did. However, that scene was edited to keep the movie from being rated R. The full scene is going to be on the special edition DVD. Just a heads up in case you wanted to stock up on lube and tissues. :P
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#104 Post by West Virginia Mule » 14 Jan 2010 05:31

I like it when Mikko kicks ass and takes names. As long as it's not me on the ass-kicked end, that is.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#105 Post by Mackasfour » 14 Jan 2010 05:50

Image
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#106 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 14 Jan 2010 07:08

but, but, but... we feed the mule every day.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#107 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 14 Jan 2010 11:56

yes, and we always enjoy feeding trolls.. because they are so rare
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#108 Post by Joost » 14 Jan 2010 14:41

Threatened with extinction even, it seems. :shock:
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#109 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 14 Jan 2010 14:48

Yes, we used to have some really good specimen around, but it seems this environment isn't too healthy for them.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#110 Post by Palantyre » 14 Jan 2010 15:45

West Virginia Mule wrote:I like it when Mikko kicks ass and takes names. As long as it's not me on the ass-kicked end, that is.
Oh stop it, you're making me blush. I'm not that special.
And The Lord said unto John: 'Come forth and receive eternal life'.
But John came fifth, and won a toaster.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#111 Post by Eintagsfliege » 14 Jan 2010 16:05

End Of An Era wrote:@eintagsfliege: your day is over. let it rest man, you think the story sucked, fine for you. but don't force everyone to look at it from your point of view. For your personal enjoyment, think of it that the masses are always dumb or whatever :roll:

take yourself less seriously man, for your own health and the enjoyment of the entire forum, please?
Keep enjoying predictability and lack of originality then if it makes you happy, people. Who am I to dare argue that your willingness to accept shitty plots & to pay for mediocre experiences ruins the mainstream movie industry for everybody, even those with higher expectations than yours?

Go on, wallow in your righteous defense of entertainment you enjoyed without reflecting whether the meal that you get is the one you should be getting, or if, with a little more indulgence in quality, each of us could have a more enjoyable experience. Go on in your defense of mediocrity and slothfulnes, your portrayal of having high standards as snobbish elitism. Go on with bashing people daring to point out the numerous flaws and the lack of quality and the lazy carelessness in works you enjoy. Maybe one day you'll realise that your answer of "I realise it's predictable, but I enjoyed it nevertheless" should stop you short and make you question what you just said.

I hope you're feeling well in the company of those who defend their industrially manufactured burgers and pizzas as being equal to, if not better than, quality cuisine, because that's where you're putting yourself. Who would have thought man's biggest & strongest opponent on the path from uncaring, dull mediocrity to vigorous, discerning self-determination would not be oppression or lack of ressources, but his own idleness and easily accomplished satisfaction? Aldous Huxley, I guess.

If you think that this is an exhilarating exaggeration, I'm fairly sure you'll find a similar lack of expectations in other parts of your life.
Palantyre wrote:
West Virginia Mule wrote:I like it when Mikko kicks ass and takes names. As long as it's not me on the ass-kicked end, that is.
Oh stop it, you're making me blush. I'm not that special.
Such an ass kicking that was, oh dear me. I might have to review my attitude entirely and start embracing the simplistic, run-of-the-mill things in life because ... um... fizzlesticks, I can't think of a reason sounding remotely plausible.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#112 Post by ThePKH » 14 Jan 2010 16:28

You're still accusing everyone in this discussion for enjoying ONLY hamburgers and hollywood blockbusters ALL THE TIME. While none has ever in this thread said that the more mainstream stuff is always better. It's just the matter of taste. Most of us could watch both the "mega hollywood simple ass hell action movie" and the "original independent thought-provoking film" during the same evening and like them both. Or like neither, or just like one of them...

Heh, I haven't even seen Avatar yet. I may even end up hating the film for one reason or another but I sure as hell will not be judging people for liking it.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#113 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 14 Jan 2010 16:37

Nothing wrong with having high standards. But by judging other people for not sharing your opinions with you, and basically judging them as lesser people, you condemn yourself to any combination of the following terms: Arrogant, Elitist, Snobbish, Tunnelvisioned, Ignorant, Disrespectful, Blind, Annoying and most of all A Simple Fool.
I'm sure you'll only wear silk shirts, because normal cotton t-shirts are just too low a quality for you, there is no novelty in it.
And I'm sure you hire a private plane when you have to fly somewhere, because we all know that the commercial airliners don't really offer the great comfort a private plane does.
And I'm also guessing you have no kitchen (or an unused one), because compared to the restaurants haute cuisine, your own cooking is simply bland and mediocre.

But, I like you, you are funny!
When people counter your "facts" with the simple fact that they are just opinions, you counter that with your factual opinion that your opinions are facts. Lovely! Better yet! I find you entertaining, eventhough you are rather mediocre.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#114 Post by Palantyre » 14 Jan 2010 16:56

ThePKH wrote:You're still accusing everyone in this discussion for enjoying ONLY hamburgers and hollywood blockbusters ALL THE TIME. While none has ever in this thread said that the more mainstream stuff is always better.
I like that bit too.
"Haw, I have heard your opinion on one single movie, and thus now have intimate knowledge of your entire taste in cinema! I am just so intellectually brilliant, as you can see from my profound loathing of such low-brow trash as Avatar! Ha-haw!"
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#115 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 14 Jan 2010 17:17

i know, let's all go and watch the new Kung- err... Karate Kid.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#116 Post by Joost » 14 Jan 2010 17:24

Eintagsfliege wrote:Who would have thought man's biggest & strongest opponent on the path from uncaring, dull mediocrity to vigorous, discerning self-determination would not be oppression or lack of ressources, but his own idleness and easily accomplished satisfaction? Aldous Huxley, I guess.
As I pointed out in my previous post (a reply to that one would be appreciated), 'idleness and easily accomplished satisfaction' do not necessarily coincide with 'satisfaction with predictable stories'. I would really suggest you to read more about the monomyth*, and its ubiquitousness in and beyond western culture, before making far-going claims like you make, without even a grain of self-doubt. (Do read The Hero with a Thousand Faces! It's very worthwhile.)

You may not like it, but predictability and formulas have been a cornerstone of what is considered 'high art' since ages. From music by masters such as Beethoven and Mozart (which, with the exception of the very late works by Beethoven, generally conforms marvelously well to the sonata form, making it quite redictable), to Greek and Shakespearean tragedy, to epic stories tracing itself back to the monomyth.

I'm not sure why you keep stating how every person in here has an utterly simplistic view, and utterly low expectations, of cinema, despite ongoing evidence to the contrary. You, apparently, at least have watched Avatar. May I ask you why? I find it hard to believe that you were actually tricked into believing it had some deep and original storyiline.


* Which can be summarized, in its shortest form, as: "A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#117 Post by Led Guardian » 14 Jan 2010 21:07

This guy has put up more straw men, made more generalities and other logical fallacies, and taken more argumentative missteps than I can possibly fit in my collection of substandard arguments.

Your writing, sir Eintagsfliege, is so densely packed with mischaracterizations, argumenta ad hominem, and claims of value made as claims of fact, that it is difficult to trudge through it. It displays an inability to distinguish between subjective and objective statements that severely reduces the effectiveness of your argument. Also, you are impressing no one with your bombastic diction.

You also make a mistake in your warranting assumption of those that enjoyed Avatar: that everyone who has seen the movie has also read the stories and seen the films that influence it. I myself have not seen films such as Dances with Wolves, and have had no more experience with "the Pocahontas story" than a knowledge of its form. For people such as myself, the story is perceived as being something far more novel than it is, as in our own experience we have not encountered it often. The actual originality holds far less meaning than the perceived originality, and thus the film is either enjoyed or not based on the merits of its execution. Clearly for many people, even the perceived originality takes a back-seat to the execution, and despite your repeated assertions to the contrary this does not mean this people are forgetful or have low expectations. Originality in itself has no intrinsic value, and only takes on the importance that an individual places on it; some people place less value on it than the quality of the storytelling, as others have said here.
To put the situation in a different perspective, the repetition of a theme can lead to greater choice for the consumer (I do not use the term in the economic sense). When something is provided in multiple versions, it affords the consumer an opportunity to select which one he enjoys the most, and to return to that one for future consumption. If a story has only one interpretation, the consumer does not have much choice.
To digress to a point I was going to make previously: In the area of art, there are not "superior opinions" and "inferior opinions," there are merely different opinions. I have plenty of experience with this, as I have to remind myself of it almost every day when I am tempted to look down on opinions contrary to my own. Reality is not divided into black and white, good and bad, better and worse, etc. I am sure that if you respond to this post you will inform me that you know this, but your writing suggests that while you may know the concept, you do not have a true understanding of it.

Finally, I concur with Joost that before you provide commentary on the unoriginality and derivative nature of the plot and its effect on the quality of the storytelling, that you should attempt to have at least a basic knowledge of the formation of mythologies, fairy tales, and the use of common themes throughout human history.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#118 Post by Palantyre » 14 Jan 2010 22:39

Led Guardian wrote:Post full of Awesome
You, sir, win the entire Internet.
I couldn't have said any of that better if I had a week to formulate it.
But that's because I love Avatar, so I'm clearly stupid.
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But John came fifth, and won a toaster.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#119 Post by West Virginia Mule » 15 Jan 2010 03:01

Palantyre wrote:Oh stop it, you're making me blush. I'm not that special.
Spesh-shul! Laying down the smack! Boom! Pow!
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#120 Post by Gandalf de Grijze » 19 Jan 2010 21:18

where did the onedayfly go to?
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#121 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 19 Jan 2010 22:39

don't ask questions about the plot...
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#122 Post by End Of An Era » 19 Jan 2010 22:42

Gandalf de Grijze wrote:where did the onedayfly go to?
he was prolly fed up with our mass manipulated opinions and prefabricated storylines :P

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#123 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 19 Jan 2010 22:43

or he's just antisemite...
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#124 Post by End Of An Era » 19 Jan 2010 22:44

Sleeping Dragon wrote:or he's just antisemite...
fuck him a little... but fuck jews a lot!!

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#125 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 20 Jan 2010 08:24

yeah... Fuck those Jews.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#126 Post by Led Guardian » 20 Jan 2010 21:53

Hey, get a thread you two! :P
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#127 Post by tonymatell » 30 Jan 2010 22:43

Avatar is the bomb. I don't mind if it is based on Pocahontas.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#128 Post by Led Guardian » 31 Jan 2010 00:19

Even spammers like Avatar! :P

Umm, wait...
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#129 Post by Mackasfour » 31 Jan 2010 04:36

You mean spambots
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#130 Post by Led Guardian » 31 Jan 2010 21:08

Mackasfour wrote:You mean spambots
I dunno. I don't think a spambot can fit its post to a thread.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#131 Post by ThePKH » 03 Feb 2010 23:22

Just saw the movie and I think it was worth to see. The plot was indeed simple but that didn't bother me at all. Visuals were just stunning, though some of the design was rather too familiar to my eye (the human military). Also, some characters were a bit cliched and one-dimensional and the Na'vi were a bit too much like blue-alien indians. These are just minor details however. Overall Avatar was well worth seeing and maybe I'll even buy the dvd some day.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#132 Post by Skyclad » 04 Feb 2010 20:03

Eintagsfliege wrote:
End Of An Era wrote:@eintagsfliege: your day is over. let it rest man, you think the story sucked, fine for you. but don't force everyone to look at it from your point of view. For your personal enjoyment, think of it that the masses are always dumb or whatever :roll:

take yourself less seriously man, for your own health and the enjoyment of the entire forum, please?
Keep enjoying predictability and lack of originality then if it makes you happy, people. Who am I to dare argue that your willingness to accept shitty plots & to pay for mediocre experiences ruins the mainstream movie industry for everybody, even those with higher expectations than yours?

Go on, wallow in your righteous defense of entertainment you enjoyed without reflecting whether the meal that you get is the one you should be getting, or if, with a little more indulgence in quality, each of us could have a more enjoyable experience. Go on in your defense of mediocrity and slothfulnes, your portrayal of having high standards as snobbish elitism. Go on with bashing people daring to point out the numerous flaws and the lack of quality and the lazy carelessness in works you enjoy. Maybe one day you'll realise that your answer of "I realise it's predictable, but I enjoyed it nevertheless" should stop you short and make you question what you just said.

I hope you're feeling well in the company of those who defend their industrially manufactured burgers and pizzas as being equal to, if not better than, quality cuisine, because that's where you're putting yourself. Who would have thought man's biggest & strongest opponent on the path from uncaring, dull mediocrity to vigorous, discerning self-determination would not be oppression or lack of ressources, but his own idleness and easily accomplished satisfaction? Aldous Huxley, I guess.

If you think that this is an exhilarating exaggeration, I'm fairly sure you'll find a similar lack of expectations in other parts of your life.
Palantyre wrote:
West Virginia Mule wrote:I like it when Mikko kicks ass and takes names. As long as it's not me on the ass-kicked end, that is.
Oh stop it, you're making me blush. I'm not that special.
Such an ass kicking that was, oh dear me. I might have to review my attitude entirely and start embracing the simplistic, run-of-the-mill things in life because ... um... fizzlesticks, I can't think of a reason sounding remotely plausible.

You do know there is no standard on what movies, music, games or anything are good, right? It's called personal opinion and I'd rather hear someone's opinion I disagree with than some asshole who thinks others are crazy for what he/she does or doesn't like.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#133 Post by Led Guardian » 04 Feb 2010 21:42

Skyclad wrote:You do know there is no standard on what movies, music, games or anything are good, right? It's called personal opinion and I'd rather hear someone's opinion I disagree with than some asshole who thinks others are crazy for what he/she does or doesn't like.
You're too late. He's already gone.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#134 Post by Belgarion » 04 Feb 2010 22:02

Gone like dead and gone?
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#135 Post by Led Guardian » 04 Feb 2010 22:34

Undoubtedly.
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#136 Post by Joost » 28 Feb 2010 00:04

Finally saw Avatar yesterday, and I have somewhat mixed feelings about the movie. Of course, the visuals were absolutely amazing, and didn't disappoint in any way. The 3D and visuals, combined with the fact that the majority of the movie was entirely computer-generated, show us how far technology has come in recent years.

The story, by itself, didn't seem to be a 'bad' story at all, but its execution, somehow, left quite some things to be desired. In my eyes, the story itself is definitely a story that deserves, and needs, to be told: a story about questioning military power, and the necessity of an ecological balance. However, as often with epic Hollywood movies (with the LotR movies being a notable exception, which renders the true nature of the notion of an 'epic' much better), the grand scale of the nature often went at the cost of things like character development. It never felt that I really was getting to know the characters, and even the main character, Jake Sully, seemed to remain remarkably flat throughout the movie. Also the music soundtrack left, in my eyes, a lot to be desired. Some of the tribal-ish sounding themes in it were interesting, but other then that there was quite a bit of very bland and generic soundtrack-music movie there. Surely I would expect the most expensive movie ever to have a better soundtrack than this...

Beyond this, I couldn't care much about the long battle sequences which seem to be obligatory in any movie labelled 'epic' nowadays. Well, yeah, of course a battle like that is a good opportunity for showing technological prowess, but that doesn't prevent me from not caring much about it. And some of the 'funny' remarks of Jake Sully at times, just downright made me cringe...

However, despite all this, the movie and the story still somehow 'worked' for me. Seeing this movie in the cinema made for a good night of entertainment, but other than the amazing visuals, I can't really say that there was a lot of truly memorable stuff in the movie. Rating? It's difficult to give this movie just a single rating: I am unable to give the visuals anything less than 10/10, but the story and the music would probably be just a meagre 6.5/10, and as far as character development goes, I probably wouldn't rate it higher than 5/10. Overall, it would probably be a 7/10 or 7.5/10 for me...
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#137 Post by Cerbere » 28 Feb 2010 07:29

I saw this today, it kicked penis

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#138 Post by Daijin » 01 Mar 2010 10:03

Would you crucify my if I said I'd give the movie a 3 of 10, maybe 4 of 10? ;)
So, supposed a robot wants to kill all the humans that makes him "a radical".
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#139 Post by Mackasfour » 01 Mar 2010 13:06

No, I haven't even seen it
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#140 Post by Andreas » 01 Mar 2010 21:23

Me neither. All this talk about it makes me quite curious though...

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#141 Post by Cerbere » 02 Mar 2010 02:08

Daijin wrote:Would you crucify my if I said I'd give the movie a 3 of 10, maybe 4 of 10? ;)
yup

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#142 Post by Mackasfour » 02 Mar 2010 09:07

Andreas wrote:Me neither. All this talk about it makes me quite curious though...
Meh, I couldn't care less
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#143 Post by Cerbere » 03 Mar 2010 06:55

Well you should care a little more trust me

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#144 Post by Mackasfour » 03 Mar 2010 06:58

I refuse to, I shall not follow the crowd :P But join them whenever I god damn well please
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#145 Post by Cerbere » 03 Mar 2010 07:00

Which is what I did, and now i wished I saw it earlier

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#146 Post by Mackasfour » 03 Mar 2010 07:18

We're different :D
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#147 Post by Metal Fan » 03 Mar 2010 07:44

You suck
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#148 Post by Mackasfour » 03 Mar 2010 10:21

Metal Fan wrote:You suck
Thank you :D
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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#149 Post by Metal Fan » 03 Mar 2010 20:03

You're welcome
⋨The Dagor Dagorath, the great final battle at which the forces of the brothers Manwë and Melkor will face one another, and Arda will be unmade.⋩
Is in with Bender on his plan
Blind Guardian wrote:A fairly small but absolutely bravehearted crowd in Tempe has made that a night remember. Marcus(on behalf of the band) says: Thank you:-)

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Re: Avatar (the movie, not forum avatars)

#150 Post by jessekaye » 11 Mar 2010 21:06

I thought it was a nice movie. A solid textbook blockbuster (big budget+PG-13+action+romance=$$$$$$$$$) the script was solid but nothing mind blowing (hand to hand with the big boss! yeah!!). I remember reading the Avatar script years ago and only thing I recall was it being a decent story and the ending of someone saying the character's name, then named "Josh" opening his eyes and cutting to black. I'm sure Cameron rewrote it and I never imagined all this. The 3D integration effects in this movie were fantastic. Although I mean to me, nothing will ever beat T2 but Avatar is good Cameron. The story reminded me heavily of Native American/American stories like Dances with Wolves or Pocahontas. You could easily substitute Navi for Native Americans. I often wondered what they'd think of a movie like this. I cringed when they made terrorist political references. Jake sometimes made me think "what a typical obnoxiously dumb American in a foreign land". And then the typical pioneer American fantasy of "dumb American skools natives in their own ways (Wow! You can fly a bigger dragon! You MUST be cool!). Natives bow down to dumb American. American male steals native princess away from betroved and does her (while fully clothed!)". But that's ok, I'd share the same shameless fantasy too!! That sort of myth dies hard.
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